Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Diggers]

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

[Diggers]

Not really the point Mac. You said you cant stand people moaning about the money being wasted...my point is that it is wasted as it could be much better spent. You think too little is spent, I think too much is.

[McLaren]

You think the money would be spent else where, which is not the case. Do you really think the US government would transfer NASA funds to health care or the welfare state budget. Of course not. they would probably just transfer it to defence or reduce the budget.

[Diggers]

Again...not the point. Ate you saying that I can't believe something is a waste of money simply because if it wasn't spent that way it wouldn't be spent how Id like it to be ? Let's nobody have an opinion on anything if that's the case.

[navyblueshorts]

A lot was learnt from the Apollo missions and not just about space travel. I'm sure huge amounts of that knowledge is all around us in modern technological goods so I'd be surprised if the Moon missions haven't realised more than they cost at the time.

Mac. You could learn a lot of physics w/o a University course. Reading and self-directed research. As for fees, someone has to pay and the government isn't.

[mystiroakey]

if it wasnt for space exploration we wouldnt have flasks for our tea or coffee..

not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

Anyway there is the argument that things like space travel and F1(another example) aid us with tech advances in our every day lifes.

[navyblueshorts]

Tim Henman on BBC talking about Vitas Gerulaitis (always thought his name sounded like a disease!) losing to Jimmy Connors 16 times in a row, then beating him on the next occasion, going into the post-match press conference and saying: 'Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row.'

[super_realist]

Mac, have you considered a career development loan to fund a Masters? That's how I funded mine.
Money up front (or by the term) and you start to pay it back one year after graudation.

Failing that, The Nordic countries do a lot of courses where they pay the fees for everyone. All you have to do is finance your living costs. Expensive place to go, but it’s taught in English and the birds are lovely.
I’d only consider it in a field where you knew it was going to be worth your while, e.g. Oil related where you know you’ll earn enough to comfortably pay it back.

[mystiroakey]

Nordic countries hey, sounds good

[navyblueshorts]

Weather's got to be better there than here.....

[super_realist]

Weather's got to be better there than here.....

Blame me, The day I moved up to this god forsaken middle earth hell-hole the weather has been as gloomy as Diggers outlook.

[navyblueshorts]

Could do. I think I prefer blaming those who declared a hose-pipe ban a couple of months back!

[navyblueshorts]

Good Lord! Swiss Rog beats Youzhny 1, 2 and 2. Ominous. Looks like Djokovic is going to hammer Mayer as well....

[mystiroakey]

Dragons..

Did they exist? Is it scientifically possible for them to have existed? Could an animal that large fly?

Is it possible for them to breath fire?

If they had two chambers of different chemiclas that they could spit out and when combined that could crerate fire..
There are bugs that can create something very close to fire with the chemicals in their bodies - the bombardier beetle.


The chemicals that it mixes come out boiling hot..

[navyblueshorts]

Have you been smoking something Oakey?

[mystiroakey]

I like nature dude. Its a good discussion. Well I think it is anyway

[navyblueshorts]

The Bombardier is pretty cool I'll have to agree but I don't think I'll agree that dragons, as in the legendary fire-breathing type, have ever existed.

[mystiroakey]

Maybe they did as a late flying dinosaur and it burped up fire from methan gases in its belly

[Diggers]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-army-battalions-set-axed-022750166.html
At last the govt make a cut that I agree with. To be honest Id much rather they shrank the forces by a lot more but its a start and I cant believe that it wont continue to be the trend.
Iraq and Afghanistan have shown the utter idiotic futility of trying to win a land war and retain control of a country, hopefully we wont be seeing those kinds of mistakes again anytime soon.

[incontinentia]

Lance Armstrong looks to be in a bit of bother, report this morning says four of his ex-teammates are to testify against him in the us anti doping agency investigation.

[Skydriver]

I heard once that the fire-breathing stories may have originated from the komodo dragon's horrible smelling breath (itself a side effect of the komodo eating very slowly and/or not being particularly picky about consuming rotting meat).

I've never been quite close enough to test the theory (nor would I want to), although I remember being amazed by seeing one such fairly large lizard climb a tree with ease - not sure if they are prone to jumping out of trees though [the chap I saw did not do so], so I can't offer any real basis for any flying myths.

[Diggers]

Would you expect any kind of reptile or indeed animail really to have fresh breath ? None of them are brushing for their full 2 minutes twice a day.
Mind you Ive encountered a few people on the tube who must have a bit of komodo blood in them judging by their disgusting breath.

[McLaren]

Thank god it is no where near as sickening as in the US, but we need to loose the hard on over the bloody armed forces. I can only hope that in the next ten years they are cut back to the very bare minimum.

In fact I always think a joint EU force patrolling the sky’s and seas and a decent euro wide missile defence system is all we need. Each country can contribute some planes and ships based on their individual contribution to EU total GDP. That way we can pay for the poorer countries defence and they don’t suffer trying to provide a defence force.

Would you really need more than 20/30 planes to protect the whole of Europe?

[navyblueshorts]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-army-battalions-set-axed-022750166.html
At last the govt make a cut that I agree with. To be honest Id much rather they shrank the forces by a lot more but its a start and I cant believe that it wont continue to be the trend.
Iraq and Afghanistan have shown the utter idiotic futility of trying to win a land war and retain control of a country, hopefully we wont be seeing those kinds of mistakes again anytime soon.

Afghanistan was OK in the beginning I think but I'm not sure what it is now. Iraq was a crime but I don't suppose anyone will stand trial for it. As far as I can see, people can't understand what a war actually is and therefore won't countenance one where you can actually win and hold a country i.e. WWII levels of materiél and manpower with commensurate casualties.

Thank god it is no where near as sickening as in the US, but we need to loose the hard on over the bloody armed forces. I can only hope that in the next ten years they are cut back to the very bare minimum.

So, what will your bleeding heart sensibilities be saying the next time we have a Bosnia or Rwanda? Who will supply the grunt to do anything...assuming the politicians grow some that is? Do you countenance a 'splendid isolation' policy re. conflicts etc elsewhere in the world? If 'something should be done' about some genocide (say, Darfur), who'll provide the hardware/personnel to do it?

In fact I always think a joint EU force patrolling the sky’s and seas and a decent euro wide missile defence system is all we need. Each country can contribute some planes and ships based on their individual contribution to EU total GDP. That way we can pay for the poorer countries defence and they don’t suffer trying to provide a defence force.

Would you really need more than 20/30 planes to protect the whole of Europe?

You think ships and planes are all that's needed? Time to take one's head out of one's bottom I think. And yes, 20/30 planes would be nowhere near enough for a Europe-wide defense.

[McLaren]

Navy

The whole of the US north east is only ever protected from air space intrusion from the Atlantic by a couple of f15's or maybe f16's. So 20/30 on stand by at any one time for Europe seems generous.

As for dealing with conflicts when they arise in other parts of the world I am sure a Europe wide force would have enough people to cope.


“You think ships and planes are all that's needed? Time to take one's head out of one's bottom I think.”

I am sure it is not, no doubt intelligence, surveillance etc plays a big role as well, but still no reason why each county in Europe has to work alone. Why not join forces and stop replicating work. I think we would all be safer. Try not to focus on what is actually needed in terms if hardware but more the concept of a euro wide force and not separate armed forces for each country.

[navyblueshorts]

Somehow I doubt the U.S. eastern seaboard would remain under the remit of a couple of planes (if indeed it currently is) for long if a serious threat was remotely suspected. Now or in the future.

I think it would make a lot of sense if more of our supposed European partners contributed more to a European-wide force. I think politics of that are tricky though both from the American's point of view and certainly from Russia.

Complex issues I guess.

[kwinigolfer]

A few more than that Mac, more than two F16's zooming overhead even as my finger does the walking. Not much defence on 9/11 having said that, security leaking like a sieve.

[McLaren]

I was basing my number on the 9/11 report which claimed that the planes that flew to new York were the only two planes on stand by (in any set up suitable) that could be deployed in the event of an attack from over the Atlantic. So I guess things may have improved. It was also claimed this was the normal state of affairs at the time.

Navy

If you – maybe you don’t but many in the uk do – love the armed forces so much then surely you would want the UK to contribute more than its fair share to a euro wide defence force? Or does it have to be UK blood defending only those loyal to the queen before you get the stirrings of a semi?

[super_realist]

Mac, it's a question of standards, chances are a Europe wide force would diluted in training and nowhere near the standard required.

The British Forces are the most highly trained in the world without question, we have the most highly trained pilots, commando's, marines, special forces etc.

Would you really want to be defended by a joint French/Italian force with their new flag of a white stripe on a white background?

[Diggers]

Id hazard a guess that the Israeli forces are better trained than the British.

[super_realist]

APparently not, British forces have the longest training period of any other as a rule for all positions.


I'm sure Mac would rather spend defence money on giving people benefits.

[McLaren]

I am sure the training techniques of the uk army - if indeed it can be proven that they are superior to other nations - could be replicated for the euro wide force. Unless of course you think us brits are inherently better in war?

And yes, i would rather give people benefits. Odd that I would rather do that than pay someone to shoot some people?

[Diggers]

Longest..since when does that translate to the best ? I very much doubt that considering the cuts the forces have had over the years....rubbish kit, low pay which lets face it is hardly going to attract the creme dela creme of our youth etc etc, that the quality of training hasnt suffered as a consequence and the quality oft he troops also.
Im sure every country comes up with a way of saying it has the best trained forces or the best forces, I take it all with a pinch of salt.

[super_realist]

Being poorly equipped doesn't make you poorly trained. It's generally acknowledged the the UK forces are the best trained in the world, as long as some of the longest trained.

I remember a couple of Marine mates of mine went over to the States and they were treated as if they were superhuman by American Marines, pretty amazing from a country who thinks they are the best at everything.

Officer training and special forces training the world over is based on UK training, even Israeli/Mossad.

Anyway, I'm not a flag waver for the current help for heroes stuff, but they are incredibly well trained and disciplined men.

[Diggers]

Generally acknowledged Im afraid says nothing. Maybe you'd like it to be generally acknowledged ? Like I say you'd find different people aroubnd the world saying different things and there is no way of proving any of it.
We love a bit of jingoism about our troops but Id be suprised if they were much better or worse than most countries with a trained army.

[super_realist]

I suppose you are right Diggers, after all, the FIFA rankings say England are number 4 in the world, could anything be less representative of their actual standing?

[Diggers]

Well at least they are based on something other than hearsay. It's amazing why someone will happily believe one thing and not the other.I guess the truth is people largely believe what they want to.

[super_realist]

I think it's pretty well proven that at least certain aspects of the forces are the best in their field. The SAS/SBS for example have the reputation for a reason. It isn't hearsay.

[McLaren]

The Israeli army send their medics to baltimore (maryland) to train them for battle. No where else can they treat as many gunshot injuries.

[Diggers]

It's hearsay.

[super_realist]

Yet every special forces in the world uses the same model and training methods as the SAS

[Lairdy]

It's hearsay.

They were rubbish.

[Diggers]

Yet every special forces in the world uses the same model and training methods as the SAS

Also probably hearsay or at least an exageration. I'm sure they all take elements from all over the place.

[super_realist]

So, Diggers family is kidnapped and needs a special forces to extricate them, who would you rather have. British SAS or Zimbabwean Special Forces?

[Diggers]

Yes, because thats exactly the kind of hypothetical scenario that proves your point isnt it ?
People believe all this guff about our forces because people like you, with no real basis other than in this case a few of your mates went over and a few marines supposedly thought they were great...when lets face it you hate the yanks anyway and would believe anything that put them down down.....perpetuate myths based on a handful of random truths from various points in history.
Its hearsay.

[McLaren]

Diggers

Rember super had read many books about the SAS, and often acts out real life SAS missions in his back garden. The guy is an expert, we just have to accept it.

Super

if my family were captured I would choose seal team 6, pretty much cos it sounds cool.

[Diggers]

I suspect he does collect military memorablilia.

[navyblueshorts]

...Navy

If you – maybe you don’t but many in the uk do – love the armed forces so much then surely you would want the UK to contribute more than its fair share to a euro wide defence force? Or does it have to be UK blood defending only those loyal to the queen before you get the stirrings of a semi?

As usual you make a complete pigs ear of things. Why on earth would you think I'd want more than the UK's fair share if we're talking about some sort of proper Euro armed force? Your comments re. a semi are pretty pathetic. Honestly, sometimes I do wonder about you.
As for your benefits comment, why am I not surprised?

Digs

Re. your hearsay bleating to S_R. What he's saying is no more hearsay that you making a counter claim. In-so-far as it's possible to judge, the U.K.'s special forces appear to be well thought of, as do the Israelis and many others. I think it's fair to say that almost no-one (probably no-one at all in actual fact) here has the first clue about any sort of special forces. I suspect they're all pretty good, all share techniques and can all do bad things to the bad guys.

[navyblueshorts]

I suspect he does collect military memorablilia.

And the issue with that would be?

[navyblueshorts]

...if my family were captured I would choose seal team 6, pretty much cos it sounds cool.

Which sort of sums you up doesn't it?

[Diggers]

Navy, yes...thats precisely what Ive been saying or bleating if you prefer. Thanks for clarifying it to me though, really needed that input....

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