Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

by Diggers Tue 24 Apr 2012, 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

I don't mind Paul Walsh at all, there are at least another 5 on the Sky Soccer Saturday that are way worse. Thompson is annoying , Nicolas just as bad, Merson is funny in an are you simple kind of way. George Best used to be worst of the lot.
I always found Graham Taylor's commentary annoying , that was his voice more than anything though.
In athletics Colin Jackson is very poor as is Denise Lewis.

by dynamark Mon 09 Jul 2012, 2:37 pm

It woke me a couple of times in the night but I thought it was my son going to the toilet or whatever.If its a mouse its a big un but didnt move that quickly.Had a bird down the chimney before who had been eating blackcurrant all day unfortunatley and a bat in the bedroom one night.Now that puts the hairs up on the back of your neck(that is a small winged creature not the ex)

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 2:38 pm

Mac, I am vehemently anti Scottish.

by Skydriver Mon 09 Jul 2012, 2:43 pm

I tawt I taw a putty tat running across the streets, trying to avoid the car headlights in Jakarta about 20 years ago. Black, fat, but fast and with a pink tail. My cousin explained that that was no putty tat. Freaked. Me. Out.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 2:44 pm

Why you so anti scottish SR. or do you just not see the point in being asociated with any nationality?

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 2:48 pm

Skydriver wrote:I tawt I taw a putty tat running across the streets, trying to avoid the car headlights in Jakarta about 20 years ago. Black, fat, but fast and with a pink tail. My cousin explained that that was no putty tat. Freaked. Me. Out.

I saw a few rats in Manila that were easily as big as a cat, made me feel the same way. I suppose I probably dined on a few when I was over there which is even more disturbing.

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 2:55 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Why you so anti scottish SR. or do you just not see the point in being asociated with any nationality?

Nothing to be proud of being Scottish, plus I hate Scottish Nationalism and it's drive for independence, borne out of ignorance and bigotry for the English, something Salmond ought to be strung up for.

He won't admit it, but his whole party is backed by a lot of people who think that way.

I'd rather have Hitler in charge, far less dangerous.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:01 pm

I agree with you completly..hate salmond, love scotland though. Want it to remain a part of the UK.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:08 pm

Think Id rather have Salmond as a leader than the buffoon double act that is Fat Face Cameron and Halfwit George. I cant imagine we have had two more stupid people running the country than these inbreds.
I dont like Salmonds policys but I at least think he cares, plus he is a very shrewd politician. Against that we have Cameron and Osbourne who just happen to have been born to the right people and gone to the right schools.Morons.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:15 pm

Well yeah but at least they arnt trying to split us up.. I hate the selfish attitude that they should go alone- the UK has 4 members- there is no thought to the poorest two parts of the UK whatsoever- and if it wasnt for geographical luck there wouldnt even be an independance debate..

You say he cares, he clearly doesnt give a hoot if you were born out of scottish borders. So i cant agree with ya on that

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:16 pm

What I don't get is that we are part of a Union, so if Salmond wants to split it up then all parts of the union should get a say, not just his inbred redneck bigots supporters.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:20 pm

I mean he cares about Scotland Mysti, not about the Union which he clearly doesnt believe in. The only thing the Torys believe in is themselves, the part of utter self interest. Never mind being born out of Scottish borders, unless you went to the same school as Cameron he doesnt give a toss about you.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:24 pm

Does slamond care about scottish people- or is he implanting a sence of false nationalsim and false hatrid.

Its tough being a politician but one things for sure- we are better of together. Just imagine the problems scotland would have faced if it had gone independant 5 years ago and adopted the euro!! If we had made the foolish decision to adopt it as a whole we would have still been stronger together.. We have too much shared history and shared instutions, shared workforces and shared bisiness. We need to be looking at breaking borders not creating new ones. If salmod wants to be respected he should be looking at all of our interests- Lets be honest is it any different from london wanting to go independant!!

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:32 pm

Dont really agree. Im happy for Scotland to stay in the Union and would rather they did...though on equal terms with everyone else. However if the people of Scotland as a majority want to opt out completely then fair enough, thats up to them.
Re the whole of the union having a vote this is my take on it. The whole Union should have a say on the terms on which Scotland stays in the Union but not on whether it wants to opt out. It ceases to be a Union if members of the Union are forced to stay in the Union when the majority of the population of the country concerned dont want to stay.

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:33 pm

I doubt Scotland could afford the benefits of all the lead swingers if they were independent.

by dynamark Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:37 pm

Golf related where would the 'British' Open go.May see the last of TOC.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:38 pm

In that case Suer they can stop paying them, they can do what they like basically. Write a new constitution, reform the existing welfare state. It will be a blank canvas to try and improve things maybe. Lets face it they couldnt do much worse and Im sure it would be much easier to govern a small western nation than on the size of the UK. Just look at the Scandie models of govt and take the best bits.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:38 pm

Diggers , if any part of the union wants to opt out of a union- all unions should have a vote weteher they want to opt in or opt out as well.

but the stupid public would be voting on that anyway- and they havent got a scobby about what will happen after anyway. I dont think you can understand the issues that we will all face by this split up.

And why do we need a split based on country boundaries- do you think scottish people are more different from london people that west country or northern english are!!!

Its ridiculas and as i said - (a point that you need to consider) The talk of indepenadnce only holds any weight anyway because of the scottish waters and the oil within!

Also just imagine this- imagine england wanted to opt out and no other nation did- Imagine the uproar!!

by Seve_The_Great Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:40 pm

Hi gents a new poster here.... I totally agree with pretty much everything said by the last few comments. I cannot see for life of me who stands too benefit from Scottish independence. Salmond and his cronies obviously have an anti-English agenda and it would be a travesty for Britain if they were to succeed.

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:44 pm

Diggers wrote:In that case Suer they can stop paying them, they can do what they like basically. Write a new constitution, reform the existing welfare state. It will be a blank canvas to try and improve things maybe. Lets face it they couldnt do much worse and Im sure it would be much easier to govern a small western nation than on the size of the UK. Just look at the Scandie models of govt and take the best bits.

Diggers, it is too late for Scotland to follow Scandi countries models. Norway have put money away for generations for when times are lean. Scotland/UK have spunked it up the wall.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:45 pm

Mysti, why on earth would you want to have a Union...and you should consider what the word Union means....if you are forcing people to stay within that Union. It doesnt make any sense. As it goes im pretty sure the vote will go in the favour of staying in the Union.
As for the English choosing to go the same way I dont think it would be any different at all. But the fact is there much less of a sense of being English than there is of being Welsh, or Scottish or Irish, there isnt a desire for separation. There clearly is within the other countries. Geography and local pride and nationalism does make a difference, look at the whole of continental Europe, if geography didnt make a difference then it would all be one country just because its the same land mass.

by incontinentia Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:48 pm

Wow super, you really ruffled that guy's feathers on the rangers thread, that was hilarious.

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:48 pm

There isn't a big enough feeling up here either Diggers at present, hence why Salmond is trying to whip up a fervour for it and delaying his referendum until a time when he has a chance to brainwash, sorry convince poorly educated electorate to vote for it.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:52 pm

That why he is a politician and a good one Super, which is what I said at the start. You may not like it but he knows what he is doing. At the very least I bet the jocks get an imprived deal out of the whole thing with more freedom and just as much central cash.

by Seve_The_Great Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:54 pm

Why bother changing something that has succesfully worked for hundreds of years? Salmond is the Scottish version of that low life Nick Griffin.

by McLaren Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:54 pm

incon/super

Can you give us a link to the rangers thread. I am well bored at work so might be worth a look at supers work.

PS what is the British open?

by incontinentia Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:57 pm

https://www.606v2.com/t11558p850-rangers-news

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 3:58 pm

Diggers wrote:In that case Suer they can stop paying them, they can do what they like basically. Write a new constitution, reform the existing welfare state. It will be a blank canvas to try and improve things maybe. Lets face it they couldnt do much worse and Im sure it would be much easier to govern a small western nation than on the size of the UK. Just look at the Scandie models of govt and take the best bits.

couldnt do much worse- Diggers i think you need abit of a reality check they mate. The grass really isnt greener. I honestly dont think you are considering the issues that would happen in a full on independance.

There are many many issues and i could list them all day- but you have to start with this first one. No blank slate can be applied due to the debt scotland will start of with and the operating loss of its country(spending to tax revenue). The economy could go into decline just based on the price of oil- that is the reality. Scotlands credit rating is gonna start of very bad- dont be suprised if there isnt 4% difference between what scotland has to pay over what england would..The debt straight away will go UP and will probally increase over the next 20 years..the country will probally have to get bailed out by europe and english banks straight away(with cheaper loans) as we did with Ireland. That would probally keep start aload of resentment that would have allready started based on all the english call centres , factories, etc based in scotland moving back down to england and vice versa for scottish firms based in england! Every time a scot buys chedder cheese it will cost more, every time english people buy whisky it will cost us more, what currency are the scots gponna start with??? you thought of that one.. You cant imagine the cost of a new currency. Or join the euro-- not. Or how about staying with sterling- if they do that they will have to be givenrned by the bank of england anyway and wouldnthave control of interest rates- so how are scotland independant anyway??!!

Diggers its all very well saying this that and other in reagrds to feeling a certain way- but people just dont have a scooby about the reality that we are all gonna be worse off in a split- and in a time of economic crisis- deary me its crazy!! absolotly crazy,.

And dont see it as a union because the rest of the world doesnt- they just see us as one country- as that is what we are. one country, exactly the same as spain or the USA. We just have this age old touch that we field seperate sporting teams(that is only because we invented sport)

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:07 pm

Mysti, its about democracy, people have the right to vote whether you like it or not. Whether the outcome is correct in your opinion is a bit irrelevant. The Union has to be content, not made up consisting of dissaffected nations.
And im sure they will vote to stay but will also gain extra power...again probably down to Salmond and his smart politics.
If you want a plan on how Scotland will function independantly then read the SNP proposal, Im sure they will have an answer for every single one of your points.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:39 pm

Diggers it's all based on extra revenue based on oil. But there have been basing the oil rev gained on unrealistic and not prudent figures.. credit ratings agencies would not look at oil as as a stable commodity . And none of that has bearing on the morale decision. My points haven't been answered and that's why I have made them.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:41 pm

Your points are just details Mysti, all be it big ones. Its all about the right to self determination, whether that turns out to be a good or bad move...and it would probably be a bad one, is irrelevant. Or dont you believe in democracy ?

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:42 pm

Is it democracy though Diggers, Salmond seems intent on pushing it through even though the majority don't want it.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:46 pm

How can he push through a free vote for everyone Super. The people who care and get up and vote will win it.
You cant count people who wont vote, you cant say for definite how they would have voted, all you can judge the decision by is the vote on the day. And Im sure they will decide to stay, I just dont have an issue with them voting to make that decision.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:46 pm

Diggers the point is i am also trying to highlight the problems it will cause us in england,wales and Northern ireland as well. And if scotland did go independant(and made a mess of it) we wouldnt leave them in the lurch anyway!! thats the truth of it- that would also cost us all as well. Be it from our govenment making the decision or by the scots moving down en masse.

Next point the mess ups this country needs to resolve at the moment is in banking- Surely we need to work together at fixing RBS before we break up!!!!?? that is only logical, if we break up the admin,red tape and hassle just from that one bank is gonna cost us all millions if not billions

by Lairdy Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:57 pm

Lowering the age for voting in this referendum is a no no as well. Maybe 40 years ago, no in fact when have 16 year olds ever been responsible enough to know what's best for them? I certainly didn't at that age. I'm closer to double that age and I'm only now becoming more familar with the world of politics.

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 5:02 pm

Cant we fix all our joing ventures first- we have built so much together. people forget this big time. This is not like a marriage break up where the kids will be better of with a split. Its the other way around this time. And there is no grounds for divorce. wwe are all guilty of the issues this nation is a part of. We all need to pull together to fix it..

I have this feeling that salmonds supporters only want an indepenadant scotland based on films like braveheart or independant sporting teams remaining!! They are not looking at the realities of the situation.

Do you know what when it boils down to it - i dont really care what happens- i just dont want us all to suffer as a consequence- the problem is thats all i can see, problems after problem. waste upon waste and argument upon argument splitting up resources and stuff.

Salmond doesnt have his feet on the ground. Lets fix today first and then move on.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 5:19 pm

Mysti, people are hardly going to have a referendum for independent when everything is going swimmingly for all concerned. Nor is that a likely scenario anytime soon with a weak global economy and utter muppets running the country.
Let them have their vote, they have the right.Do you think we should be forced to stay in the European Union if we want to opt out ?
Also I think people are more intelligent than you give them credit for and I'm sure the vote will be to stay.

by barragan Mon 09 Jul 2012, 5:36 pm

Diggers wrote:
Also I think people are more intelligent than you give them credit for and I'm sure the vote will be to stay.

I wish i shared your optomism digs - have been doing a bit of labouring over the last few months between jobs, and the lack of understanding, shortsighted, narrowminded, pigheadedness and overconfidence on display from 'the common man' has astounded me. I have a nasty feeling that salmond has it in the bag with this one. The other thing that has astounded me is just how much pastry they all eat- but i'm the lardy lowry of the crew despite a diet which ought to shame them. One of them is regularly on his 4th pie by 11:30!

by mystiroakey Mon 09 Jul 2012, 5:44 pm

I just dont want it to happen. i stand against it big time.

yeah let em vote.

What do you think about europe digs? should we remain?

do enough people understand the benefits when discussing these things or just the negatives?

Do people only vote on what they feel there are?

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 5:46 pm

diggers, if you were privy to the dreadful parochial tv and radio phone ins , newspapers and general comment up here I think you'd rethink your idea that people are more clever than you think.
Our own msps have precious few braincells between them let alone the electorate.
salmond clearly play slyly upon Scots prejudice,insecurities and bitterness as a way of gathering support for his crazy idea.

The man and his party are a disgrace, and its only the fact we are in a union that we aren't backwards and broke like Ireland.

by McLaren Mon 09 Jul 2012, 8:04 pm

Super

Something else we can agree on, the intellect of the average MSP is woeful. Seriously diggers, all the brighter folks who enter politics in scotland in up in/running Westminster. I have had some first hand interaction with some snp members and they really were thick as pig manure.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 8:34 pm

How thick will they look of they win a vote that they have no right to win ?

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 8:58 pm

Diggers wrote:How thick will they look of they win a vote that they have no right to win ?

If they do win, (and I sincerely hope they won't as it will kill all business in the country) it will only confirm what most sane educated people in the country already know: that the country is on the slide and independence will lead to a brain drain.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Jul 2012, 9:01 pm

Salmond is a typical politician - out for himself - but he does have a gift of the gab so he sounds better than half these numpties who can't write a speech or think on their feet.

There was an interesting special Question Time a few months ago from Scotland and the token Englander was Frank Field (I think). There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing and nothing really that interesting. There was, however, a few interesting bits of survey data including some that said that if independent Scots had an extra £50 in their pockets per year, quite a few would vote for independence whereas if independent Scots had £50 quid less per year they would most likely vote to stay in the Union.
Frank Field then said he'd expected to be told why Scotland could be a great nation in sweeping terms and be persuaded by wonderful arguments but instead he was amazed to find a squalid argument that if it was worth an extra £50 per year they'd go for it.
I think that just about sums it up.

I'd rather Scotland stayed in the Union but I'm fed up with these small-minded, wanna-be big fish in a small pond politicians. Set the terms, vote on it and then shut up.

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 9:14 pm

There can't be more than 1.5m tax payers up here, most earning less than 30k. With.all there is to pay for I'm not sure how he can square the figures

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 9:48 pm

On a different subject , do you ever watch something you wouldn't normally like but just get drawn in.
I've been to the ballet before and was fairly bored but the other night I watched a performance of Bolero on TV and was utterly mesmerised , it's on again now and am just watching to see if I was just very drunk.
I know nothing about ballet but you can tell just how athletic and talented they are, plus the musics great.
Anyway, feel free to call me a woofter but I reckon it takes a real man to say he enjoyed a bit of ballet.

by JAS Mon 09 Jul 2012, 10:00 pm

super_realist wrote:There can't be more than 1.5m tax payers up here, most earning less than 30k. With.all there is to pay for I'm not sure how he can square the figures

Income tax and National insurance is only part of the equation, there's also VAT, Inheritance Tax, Road Tax, Fuel Duty, Alcohol & Tobacco duty (wee goldmine there!! Wink

) and of course Corporation Tax...No wait Corp Tax will raise next to nothing because most of the big multinationals that employ most of Scotland's working population also employ clever accountants who can "move" profits around and pay next to nothing.

At the end of the day though I would tend to agree with you that I just cant see how they could possibly balance the books without taxes being at exhorbitant levels.

The smaller the country the more cash rich, natural resource rich and productive it has to be. Scotland ain't really either of those things.
Cash rich? The banking system was in shreds 3 years ago and is now effectively UK government and/or foreign owned.
Natural resources? how much oil is actually left? Coal, well there's lots of it but it's too expensive to be got at now. What else (apart from water) does Scotland have in abundance?
Productive? Scotland barely has enough of industrial base left to be able to meaningfully measure productivity.
An independent Scotland would be very heavily reliant on tourism (a bit like Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus - they're all doing great aren't they??)

by JAS Mon 09 Jul 2012, 10:03 pm

I really don't think I could suffer the ballet Diggers although to be fair I did enjoy Billy Elliot (film and stage play)

by super_realist Mon 09 Jul 2012, 10:09 pm

I actually did a projected production curve on the oil production rates for the next forty years and to be fair it doesn't look great for UK waters. Salmond is banking on something that isn't going to be worth the effort of drilling without some major fields similar in size to the Forties being realised, and geologically it isn't going to happen.

by Diggers Mon 09 Jul 2012, 10:11 pm

Jas, it's only about 15 mins, I was amazed it drew me in. Billy Elliot was good, a really good stage show is the Jersey Boys.

by Fader Tue 10 Jul 2012, 5:38 am

Hello gents, and ladies.

Just got home from the cousins nuptials in Florence, good to see my faith in Italy beating Germany bore through. Though they were savaged by Spain in the finals no complaints there.

Have I missed anything, I see plenty of thread up and updated but to much for me to plough through.

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