Likely Starting XV for the South Africa Tour

With the selection of the England squad this morning, this is the starting XV I would choose.

15. M.Brown
14. C.Ashton
13. M.Tuilagi
12. B.Barritt
11. B.Foden
10. T.Flood
09. B.Youngs

08. B.Morgan
07. C.Robshaw (c)
06. C.Fearns
05. G.Parling
04. M.Botha
03. D.Cole
02. D.Hartley (vc)
01. A.Corbisiero

16. J.Marler
17. L.Mears
18. J.Launchberry
19. J.Haskell
20. D.Care
21. O.Farrell
22. J.Joseph

The first point most people will be raging about surrounds the selection of Brown at full-back. This season Brown has been absolutely rock solid in defence and under the high ball, he's been one of the best players in an impressive Harlequins side and really offers himself in attack, with some scorching line breaks and deadly finishing. He has developed into the complete full back, and I for one cannot leave him out of the starting XV.

This leads me to my second point, moving Foden to the wing. Foden on his day can be absolutely world class. Admittedly, by his own standards he had a poor six nations. However moving him to the wing could help improve his game at international level, similar to that of Cory Jane when he was moved from full back to the wing by the All Blacks. Foden will be able to impact the game more with his work-rate and find himself with more space. Defensively it won't be a problem and in attack I think he could be potent. I'd have Jonathan Joseph on the bench to cover the wings and centres, he is a very exciting player and I'd love to see if he could handle international rugby.

I would keep the centre partnership of Tuilagi and Barritt. Defensively it is very impressive, whilst with Flood at 10, he will be able to dictate how we play the game, and his strong passing game will help to utilise the devastating potential of our back three, and strong direct running of our powerful centres. I would have Youngs at 9, simply because he has found some wonderful form for Leicester recently and he knows Flood's game inside out. Care on the bench to add zip and a different style when he comes on, along with Farrell who can help to steady the boat towards the end of a test match.

In the back row, if Morgan is fit, then he must start, if he is not fit, then I would expect a specialist 8 such as Waldrom to come in straight at no.8 - rather than playing Haskell in a position he has struggled with. The decision of whether to start Fearns or Haskell was tough, however Fearns has been Bath's best player towards the end of this season. His reading of the game, big hits, defensive work-rate and ball carrying has really impressed me, and I feel he could adapt to international rugby like a duck to water. Haskell on the bench to cover the whole back row.

In the second row I would keep Botha and Parling who both went well in the six nations and developed a strong partnership. They also helped to dismantle the Irish scrum, and I'd like to see how they go against the South African second rows. Although it is likely Palmer will start on the bench, I would have Joe Launchberry - he could make a huge impact from the bench, and can also cover the back row. I get the impression that international rugby would not phase the young lad.

Whilst I would leave the front row unchanged. All three were highly impressive in the six nations and deserve to keep their places. Instead of Stevens on the bench I would promote Joe Marler who deserves a first international cap, whilst it will be interesting to see how he goes against a likely powerful Safa front row. I would also have Mears on the bench, as Webber is unavailable due to injury.

There’s only one thing SL really needs to know about SA, and if he watched the last time we played them he’ll know. Put up a lightweight or unaggressive pack against SA and they’ll be beaten up – all across the pitch and for the full 80. And that’ll be the end of that.

I'd prefer Haskell to start. And God help us if Mears has to come on.

For the first test i would go with this....but after the midweekers games those on form would get a chance..ie Lowe, Marler, etc

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Botha
5 Parling
6 Robshaw C
7 Haskell (Left and right, not openside blindside)
8 Morgan

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Wade
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

16 PDJ
17 Launchbury
18 Fearns
19 T.Youngs
20 B.Youngs
21 Brown
22 Farrell

1- Corbs
2- Hartley
3- Cole
4- Botha
5- Parling
6- Robshaw
7- Haskell
8- Morgan

9- Care or Youngs depending on performance in training
10- Flood
11- Wade
12- JTH
13- Tuilagi
14- Ugo (ashton is absolutely cack)
15- Foden

I think we'll go with the side that started against Ireland, apart from where injury prevents this. Farrell will be FH, Hodgson may well be on the bench (although with Catt coaching Flood may get that spot), and Haskell will be in for Croft. The possible exception is SH, which I think is wide open.

Robshaw, whilst I disagree, your logic about moving Foden to wing does make sense. But I feel it's better to keep him at FB

With Haskell likely to feature for the Highlanders in Christchurch the weekend before the Test it'll be interesting if the short time he'll have to train with the England squad will be enough to get him a starting spot. I suspect he's more likely to be looking at the bench spot and that Lancaster will stick with his 6N players, 6.Dowson 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan.

I think that holds for most of the side Lancaster will pick for the first test, though the players who run out against the Barbarians and have the extra few weeks in the England training camp could well play themselves into contention for the XXII.

A Quins v Tigers final looks most likely, so against the Barbarians I would expect:

Corbisero
Hartley
PDJ (Stevens has been preferred, but surely his form prevents continued selection)
Botha
Palmer
Johnson
Fearns
Morgan
Dickson (no backup, will one be drafted in?)
Farrell
Strettle
Barritt
Joseph
Ashton
Foden

Stevens
Mears
Kitchener (if not selected by Tigers)
Launchbury
Hodgson
Wade
Goode


Good performances by the 2nd row and halfback units could well see them start in SA. I could definitely see PDJ displace Stevens as the prop cover. Johnson or Fearns have a chance of beating Haskell to a place. Great opportunity for Wade if Ashton or Strettle don't deliver as well.

It seems Lancaster is expecting at least some injuries as so many players are in playoff matches, so the likes of May etc could get their chance (potential pun deliberately avoided)

GeordieFalcon wrote:For the first test i would go with this....but after the midweekers games those on form would get a chance..ie Lowe, Marler, etc

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Botha
5 Parling
6 Robshaw C
7 Haskell (Left and right, not openside blindside)
8 Morgan

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Wade
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

16 PDJ
17 Launchbury
18 Fearns
19 T.Youngs
20 B.Youngs
21 Brown
22 Farrell

My team exactly

I realy canot see Stuart Lancaster playing any one out of postion(Foden on the wing) for example.

EngInAuck wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:For the first test i would go with this....but after the midweekers games those on form would get a chance..ie Lowe, Marler, etc

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Botha
5 Parling
6 Robshaw C
7 Haskell (Left and right, not openside blindside)
8 Morgan

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Wade
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

16 PDJ
17 Launchbury
18 Fearns
19 T.Youngs
20 B.Youngs
21 Brown
22 Farrell

My team exactly

Yes agreed - SL may go with Youngs to play alongside Flood & Haskell 6 Robshawe 7 but this team looks favourite to me with Dowson captaining the midweek team.

GeordieFalcon wrote:For the first test i would go with this....but after the midweekers games those on form would get a chance..ie Lowe, Marler, etc

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Botha
5 Parling
6 Robshaw C
7 Haskell (Left and right, not openside blindside)
8 Morgan

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Wade
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

16 PDJ
17 Launchbury
18 Fearns
19 T.Youngs
20 B.Youngs
21 Brown
22 Farrell

If you don't go with Strettle then I'd certainly go with JJ on the left-wing - he's played there before and impressed. Wade is a right winger, as is Ashton.

I'd be surprised if T Youngs makes the bench so early in his career. My bet would be Joe Gray on the bench - more heft than Mears, more experience than Youngs and fast enough to fit into a strategy of running the Saffa pack ragged (which seems to be the idea).

Agree that PDJ should be the bench option at prop for his ability to play both sides, but I'll be interested to see if Marler can force his way into contention for Corbs starting slot. Probably not, but his scrummaging has come on a long way (came off better against Cole and Castro in the Tiggers/Quins game) and his aggression and speed in the loose could be very handy.

DaveM wrote:I think we'll go with the side that started against Ireland, apart from where injury prevents this. Farrell will be FH, Hodgson may well be on the bench (although with Catt coaching Flood may get that spot), and Haskell will be in for Croft. The possible exception is SH, which I think is wide open.

I agree 100% with this. I cannot see Lancaster selecting Flood. So (further injuries permitting) I would expect him to pick the XV that started against Ireland with Dowson/Johnson/Haskell fighting over the 6 spot.

The other change I could see on the bench would be Care coming in instead of Youngs. I fully expect to see the Leicester half backs in the first midweek team.

Cracking team Geordie, and just what I would have picked. The backrow especially, looks pretty strong. Over the last season or so, I've become a big Haskell fan.

Can we please put one issue to bed right now?

Haskell as i understand it is highly unlikely to start T1 as much as we all want him to. This is due as i understand it to timings. I am fairly sure though i do not have a link that Lancaster has said as much himself.

Dowson it is then.

Sorry to ruin your fridays.

I'd rather Johnson than Dowson to be honest, if not Haskell. Rate Johnson very highly

Fine but Haskell is unlikely.

how do you know Haskell's unavailable Triangulation? i.e do you know the dates of his ban?

its reported somewhere fairly certain lancaster said he would be unlikely to be on board in time for T1. makes sense doesnt it?

Honestly don't know mate. No idea about his ban dates or things like that, or when the S15 has a break.

bluestonevedder wrote:how do you know Haskell's unavailable Triangulation? i.e do you know the dates of his ban?

He was initially banned for 3 weeks from the start of May, however the ban was upped to 4 weeks yesterday. Regardless he should be available for all England's matches, though I read a couple of days ago that he was to fly into SA a couple of days after the rest of the squad after the Highlanders' match on June 1 - given that he's now banned for that match he may fly sooner.

Much appreciate Kiwireddevil- that was exactly what I was after, thanks.

His ban got increased by a week because he previously didn't acknowledge an incident from a few years ago, right?

Yesterday's (London) Times described Haskell's Super Rugby efforts as "2nd only to McCaw" this season

Given that:
a) McCaw's not started a match yet and only played an hour or so of rugby, at blindside, this season, the form NZ opensides are Tanerau Latimer and Matt Todd. And Pocock and Brussow are having good seasons.
b) Haskell only got a starting berth at the Highlanders due to injury
c) Adam Thompson's been shading him by a healthy margin for the Highlanders

some journalist's not been doing his research.

bluestonevedder wrote:Much appreciate Kiwireddevil- that was exactly what I was after, thanks.

His ban got increased by a week because he previously didn't acknowledge an incident from a few years ago, right?

Yep. He was banned for a week for Wasps in 2008 so a fair while ago. Initially the 6 week ban was discounted to 3 weeks for early guilty plea, remorse and clean record.


Perhaps someone should suggest this example to the RFU judiciary re. Calum Clarke (who's QC got away with saying his previous long ban was 5 years back when Clarke was a junior rather than 4 years back when he was 19)

Unfounded hyperbole from the British Sports Press? Whatever next? Patriotism from Americans?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Unfounded hyperbole from the British Sports Press? Whatever next? Patriotism from Americans?

It gave me something to laugh at when I read it at least

And Haskell has played fairly well for the Highlanders in fairness

Totally agree...if Haskell is not available...Johnson to start for me over Dowson.

Feel Dowson has missed the boat....a few year back he should have been a definate starter....

Haskell's ban has been extended by a week but still finishes on 26th May. Highlanders have a match the next weekend against Canterbury.

I suspect the reason it's expected he won't feature in the 1st test is that he will then have to fly to SA with less than a week to adjust to the new setup, whereas the rest of the team would have had between 2 and 4 weeks training together as well as the couple of months of the 6Ns.

Another performance like the one he pulled out yesterday and I think there's a serious possibility of Marler overtaking Corbs for the starting loosehead berth. He saw off Mujati and PDJ, and was immense in the loose and maul. Cole and Castro to go...

Poorfour

I can't see it happening for the first test, but if Corbisiero struggles at all then Marler may get a shot at it. The problem is that he's not an ideal bench option unless Corbisiero can move to TH.

When Corbs won his first cap he wasn't even in the 22 at first, but Sheridan got injured late in the week and he overtook Wilson for the starting job. That suggests to me that they can't have been at all confident with him at TH, if they considered him the stronger loosehead but still behind Wilson as a bench option. Given that, I reckon Marler will probably stick to the midweek games this tour. I'll be pretty surprised if he's not starting by the time of the Six Nations though.

Poorfour wrote:Another performance like the one he pulled out yesterday and I think there's a serious possibility of Marler overtaking Corbs for the starting loosehead berth. He saw off Mujati and PDJ, and was immense in the loose and maul. Cole and Castro to go...

Agreed, Marler was immense yesterday, he and Johnson took Saint's much vaunted props to the cleaners. Corbisiero or Marler? It's becoming competitive. It's going to be a nice problem to have in a couple of years isn't it? In fact we're pretty well sorted for looseheads with Matt Mullan and Nick Wood providing experienced cover and a number of good youngsters coming through. Now if only we could find some competition for Cole.

There's always Doran-Jones for that, and people say good things about Henry Thomas, although he probably hasn't shown enough to be capped yet. Luckily Cole does have a huge amount of competition at club level which is something.

Corbisero is the incumbent and will have to get injured or have a poor game before Marler overtakes him. Marler may be very difficult to displace once that happens though.

I used to hope Corbs would switch t TH (at age-group level he played there, and has played there a bit at senior level), but that now seems unlikely. On the TH side coming through we have Thomas, Brookes, Palmer-Newport, Harden, Collier and, in a few years time, Sinkler. I also think Vunipola should ask Sarries to let him focus on TH, and frankly we don't need another LH!

I watched Kane Palmer-Newport come up through the 'A' league ranks at Bath, he was one of the few bright spots on the cold Monday nights down at the Rec. I reckon he'll overtake Dave Wilson in due course (who will return to the North-East ).

I'm hoping Thomas goes like Marler in that his scrummaging technique will improve immeasurably in the space of a season!

Does Marlers improvement have anything to do with his experiences with the England camp and Rowntree in particular....or just general improvement with the quins coaches....

I suspect that experience and playing time have a huge impact. Plus development of other forwards.

The general upturn in Quins' scrummaging predates the Six Nations (see HC rounds 5 and 6), but I'm sure Rowntree has had a big impact. The key thing though is that Johnston has improved beyond all recognition, and having that platform means Marler has now also been able to show what he can do.

I think the 'Kane train' is going to struggle to get much game time next season. He has competition at tighthead from the impressive Perenise (when fit) our new signing Paul James and Davey Wilson.

I reckon Bath will probably loan out Kane to a top championship club to aid his development.

robshaw4england

You're not a Quins fan??