King Great Lancaster Bombs Twelvetrees

by kingelderfield Fri 11 May 2012, 7:47 am

First topic message reminder :

Short but sweet.

Of all the non selections excluding the most talented English back of his generation is an absolute traversty. I accept the selections of Barritt and Farrell however there is no other player that offers the portfolio of Twelvetrees, None!

Twelvetrees must incite some kind of coach jealousy as both Cockerill and now Lancaster have passed him over!

Which other player could have replaced Flood with such aplomb in last weekends game and yet may do so again on Saturday. And is infact and inside Centre not a half!!!

Sorry Anthony Allen ypu are not as good as Twelvetrees, though good you are.

England cannot afford to make such desperate selection errors.

by niwatts Mon 14 May 2012, 3:31 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Looking at the running stats, 4m from 4 runs for Allen, 0m from 4 runs for JTH, 16m from 9 runs for Barritt.

What are the tackle stats like for Allen, he moved into the first receiver spot in defence at times so I'm guessing quite a few? I'm pretty sure Allen made at least one pass.

6 tackles & 0 missed for Allen, 3 tackles & 0 missed for JTH, 5 tackles & 1 missed for Barritt.

The best IC display of the weekend was the supposedly 1D Downey. 14 tackles & 0 missed, 25m from 7 runs, 2 clean breaks, 3 passes, 1 offload

by formerly known as Sam Mon 14 May 2012, 3:49 pm

James Downey did seem on a personal mission to end his Saints career on a high. He really showed JTH how a one dimensional boshing IC should be playing. Munster fans feeling a bit down by him signing might be a bit more optimistic now.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 17 May 2012, 9:50 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I would have omitted Allen.

It is to Cockerills shame that he failed to understand and realise TTs talent over the last 24 months. I do think he has learnt as a coach from the experience and believe this will be of benefit to George Ford as he will be given opportunity now sooner than Cockerills arch conservitism would have otherwise allowed.

Will Greenwood will always be the obvious parallel and it is of note that he too felt confined at Leicester. However I think more interesting is the realisation that TT will be a better player than Greenwood which is incredibly exciting from an English perspective.

TTs is the most talented Back of his generation and anyone who doubts this really does not understand the difference a worldclass 12 makes too a 15 man attack lead game plan. Martin Johnson never ever understood this and I actually think few in English rugby do.

I offer you imagination excitment and success, TTs is that future..

Having heard a player so over hyped in a long while.

'Most talented back of his generation'.... please please return to the real world - thats plain daft.

You must be Billys mum

Well someone has to be the most talented player of the generation, so who would you hype instead?

Billy is the best all round center England have available. He can run round people, run into people, pass, kick and tackle well and has good fitness. Whereas other options may be better in one or two aspects of play they are weaker in others.
Lack of gametime could be a justification, but then how many games has Tom Youngs started at Hooker? Hooker is different though with a glaring lack of talent available.
I honestly believe he is potentially the best center England have had in a long time, especially when you look at the probelms theyve had in the recent past either picking one dimensional fly halves who couldnt get the 10 shirt ahead of Wilko or lumps of meat that make Banahan look subtle.

I can only assume he refused the call up because Lancaster wouldnt guarantee him the 12 shirt.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 17 May 2012, 9:53 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Though I'd take him BECAUSE he is a utility back. I like Utility backs. SL's England and especially bench selections imply that he does not

Like picking a 12 who plays for his club at 13 as his first choice 10 for example?

Lancaster in the past has shown a real tendancy to pick 10/12's especially for the bench. But I get the point about him picking specialist fullbacks over a wingback on the bench.

by geoff998rugby Thu 17 May 2012, 10:56 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I would have omitted Allen.

It is to Cockerills shame that he failed to understand and realise TTs talent over the last 24 months. I do think he has learnt as a coach from the experience and believe this will be of benefit to George Ford as he will be given opportunity now sooner than Cockerills arch conservitism would have otherwise allowed.

Will Greenwood will always be the obvious parallel and it is of note that he too felt confined at Leicester. However I think more interesting is the realisation that TT will be a better player than Greenwood which is incredibly exciting from an English perspective.

TTs is the most talented Back of his generation and anyone who doubts this really does not understand the difference a worldclass 12 makes too a 15 man attack lead game plan. Martin Johnson never ever understood this and I actually think few in English rugby do.

I offer you imagination excitment and success, TTs is that future..

Having heard a player so over hyped in a long while.

'Most talented back of his generation'.... please please return to the real world - thats plain daft.

You must be Billys mum

Well someone has to be the most talented player of the generation, so who would you hype instead?

To me someone who deserves that kind of accolade needs to stand out from the rest.
Needs to the best player over a period of years (5 to 10)

e.g. O'Driscoll.

For England Greenwood comes to mind.

I don't think any English centre fits that title.
However I do think there is more genuine talent coming through the English game for 12 and 13 than there has been in a decade so the future looks good. Time will tell if any one of them deserve the accolade.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 17 May 2012, 10:59 am

Yeah, generally talent is too subjective and different between positions to objectively call one player the most talented of his generation

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