Ibeabuchi, Tua and what might have been

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It's probably fair to say that most fight fans have been pretty much disillusioned by the heavyweight division in recent years. It's not without precedent, of course ; many times throughout history the division has found itself in the doldrums in the immediate aftermath of a great champion's retirement. Johnson, Dempsey ( and Tunney, for that matter, ) Louis and Ali all left a bit of a ' hole ' when they retired or were displaced, and when Lennox Lewis called it a day we had just seen three high profile champs, each a candidate for a top fifteen of all time slot.

Vitali and Wlad Klitschko were left to carry the torch, and to do so with the unfortunate and frustrating circumstances by which the two best heavies in the world could never share a ring and the talent pool immediately beneath them was pretty dry. The manner in which the Klitschkos do business irritates me beyond belief, but I do have a certain sympathy for them as fighters since, in the near absence of high quality opposition, they have probably not been able to shake off the the idea that they are ' eagles among crows. ' They have their supporters, of course, but they also have detractors who will never see them as anything more than a couple of very strong athletes with robotic styles who happened to be in the right place at the right time. My take, for what it's worth, would be that Wlad is not much more than Primo Carnera with a punch but that Vitali, despite being ostensibly the ' stiffer ' and more robotic of the two, has been a ' real deal ' heavyweight.

Things could have been considerably more exciting if David Tua and Ike Ibeabuchi had stayed in the heavyweight picture during the recent past. The unbeaten Ibeabuchi threatened, oh so briefly, to take the heavyweight division by the scruff of its neck and make it his own and Tua, with his rock solid chin and explosive left hook, also seemed destined for higher things than he would ultimately achieve.

My question, then, is how you all feel the heavyweight landscape would have looked if Tua and Ibeabuchi had been at the top of their games during the Klitschko years, and how each of them would have fared against each of the brothers. I suspect that Vitali might well have finished at the top of the pile and Wlad at the bottom.

What say you fellas ?

I believe that Ike might well have been the biggest rival to the Klitschkos over the last decade or so. It is such a shame we never got to find out.

Vitali-Ibeabuchi just after Lennox Lewis had beaten Vitali could have been a barnburner.

Great quote from Ibeabuchi's agent Cedric Kushner regarding the time Ike wielded a knife during a dinner meeting in New York to discuss a possible three-fight HBO deal.

"We were having a fine meal at a nice restaurant, and mid-course Ike picked up a big carving knife, slammed it into the table and screamed 'They knew it! They knew it! The belts belong to me! Why don't they just give them back.'

"That was a peculiar experience."

HumanWindmill wrote:It's probably fair to say that most fight fans have been pretty much disillusioned by the heavyweight division in recent years. It's not without precedent, of course ; many times throughout history the division has found itself in the doldrums in the immediate aftermath of a great champion's retirement.

~Why, sir, I pray this was an off day for articles.

The average boxing fan is hard pressed to show more IQ than a turnip, but can certainly teach a pubescent school girl a few things about illogical mood swings. There has never been a heavy era regardless of the "legend" in residence that was not savaged by these illiteri.

The insult of Mr. Wlad by use of Mr. Primo may be red meat for the turnip soup morass, but Mr. Primo has more wins, KOs, and less losses than the rest of the post Dempsey/pre Louis champs, all of whom are in the brown stain known as IBHOF. HOFers he beat include Godfrey, Stibling, Loughran, Sharkey, and he only started losing near the end of a long career when kidney disease took root.

The business practices of the Klitschko brothers are several grades above that of Mr. King/Mr. Lewis that preceded them as their record show a plethora of Ring ranked champ/contenders receiving career or near career paydays shows and they didn't give up any belts to avoid facing top era champs like Mr. Lewis did.

Simply put, they are the best long division boxers ever in the heavy division and at best it's arguable if any in history could beat them in their current form, and at worst it's impossible to legitimize the nonsense leveled against them.

BTW, Mr. Ike was not long for boxing after eating Mr. Tua's punches as that's when his terrible migraines, bizarre criminal outbursts, and whispering sweet nothings into the vents of large appliances began. Mr. Tua had his opportunities and recently turned down a shot at the brothers, so might as well pose a hypothetical how good would Ali be if born with a club foot, eh?

Some things are better left untouched.

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:It's probably fair to say that most fight fans have been pretty much disillusioned by the heavyweight division in recent years. It's not without precedent, of course ; many times throughout history the division has found itself in the doldrums in the immediate aftermath of a great champion's retirement.

~Why, sir, I pray this was an off day for articles.

The average boxing fan is hard pressed to show more IQ than a turnip, but can certainly teach a pubescent school girl a few things about illogical mood swings. There has never been a heavy era regardless of the "legend" in residence that was not savaged by these illiteri.

The insult of Mr. Wlad by use of Mr. Primo may be red meat for the turnip soup morass, but Mr. Primo has more wins, KOs, and less losses than the rest of the post Dempsey/pre Louis champs, all of whom are in the brown stain known as IBHOF. HOFers he beat include Godfrey, Stibling, Loughran, Sharkey, and he only started losing near the end of a long career when kidney disease took root.

The business practices of the Klitschko brothers are several grades above that of Mr. King/Mr. Lewis that preceded them as their record show a plethora of Ring ranked champ/contenders receiving career or near career paydays shows and they didn't give up any belts to avoid facing top era champs like Mr. Lewis did.

Simply put, they are the best long division boxers ever in the heavy division and at best it's arguable if any in history could beat them in their current form, and at worst it's impossible to legitimize the nonsense leveled against them.

BTW, Mr. Ike was not long for boxing after eating Mr. Tua's punches as that's when his terrible migraines, bizarre criminal outbursts, and whispering sweet nothings into the vents of large appliances began. Mr. Tua had his opportunities and recently turned down a shot at the brothers, so might as well pose a hypothetical how good would Ali be if born with a club foot, eh?

Some things are better left untouched.

Why, Albert, how nice that you should pop in to entertain us in your own inimitable style.

I enjoyed your post far too much to spoil things by debating Mr Primo's mysterious win over Mr Godfrey, while prostrate, good Sire, and claiming foul. Foul, Sire, was the stench of ' fix,' as well you know. Nor should I mention the win over the moody Mr Sharkey, or his playing his own special brand of footsie with Mr Loughran. As to the prowess of Mrs Klitschko's offspring, and particularly in the subject of the likely fate of the fair Wlad, were he to tangle with Mr Dempsey during one of the Mauler's less than charitable moods, you have beaten me to the punch, whether thrown or imbibed :

Some things are, indeed, better left untouched.

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:It's probably fair to say that most fight fans have been pretty much disillusioned by the heavyweight division in recent years. It's not without precedent, of course ; many times throughout history the division has found itself in the doldrums in the immediate aftermath of a great champion's retirement.

~Why, sir, I pray this was an off day for articles.

The average boxing fan is hard pressed to show more IQ than a turnip, but can certainly teach a pubescent school girl a few things about illogical mood swings. There has never been a heavy era regardless of the "legend" in residence that was not savaged by these illiteri.

The insult of Mr. Wlad by use of Mr. Primo may be red meat for the turnip soup morass, but Mr. Primo has more wins, KOs, and less losses than the rest of the post Dempsey/pre Louis champs, all of whom are in the brown stain known as IBHOF. HOFers he beat include Godfrey, Stibling, Loughran, Sharkey, and he only started losing near the end of a long career when kidney disease took root.

The business practices of the Klitschko brothers are several grades above that of Mr. King/Mr. Lewis that preceded them as their record show a plethora of Ring ranked champ/contenders receiving career or near career paydays shows and they didn't give up any belts to avoid facing top era champs like Mr. Lewis did.

Simply put, they are the best long division boxers ever in the heavy division and at best it's arguable if any in history could beat them in their current form, and at worst it's impossible to legitimize the nonsense leveled against them.

BTW, Mr. Ike was not long for boxing after eating Mr. Tua's punches as that's when his terrible migraines, bizarre criminal outbursts, and whispering sweet nothings into the vents of large appliances began. Mr. Tua had his opportunities and recently turned down a shot at the brothers, so might as well pose a hypothetical how good would Ali be if born with a club foot, eh?

Some things are better left untouched.

Stop hiding LRR,

Your boy is about to take a 'Hayemaker'. It is on.

HumanWindmill wrote:
I enjoyed your post far too much to spoil things by debating Mr Primo's mysterious win over Mr Godfrey

~ There was no mystery sir, Mr. Godfrey never followed a single application of boxing fundamentals nor did he abide by a single regulation of the rules.

In short, he had no business fighting on after the first minute of the 1st round, having been warned repeatedly for wrestling, pushing, rabbit punching, and low blows, indeed, having a rich career history of sordid infractional disqualifications.

I only piped up because a most valued member of a new potentially stellar boxing forum penned a particularly noxious article unbecoming of his status. That you may not cherish the Klitschko brothers is perfectly acceptable in mixed company, sir, but nonsense is still nonsense by any other name.

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:I only piped up because a most valued member of a new potentially stellar boxing forum penned a particularly noxious article unbecoming of his status. That you may not cherish the Klitschko brothers is perfectly acceptable in mixed company, sir, but nonsense is still nonsense by any other name.

That's a nice compliment, Albert. Thank you.

I'm ambivalent about the Klitschkos, to be honest, and your choice of the word ' cherish ' is apt. There's no denying their achievements, but they just don't rock my boat, and that's as much due to a shallow talent pool as anything else, which is why I wish Ibeabuchi had been around to stir the pot.

Regardless, I'm pleased to see that you join us from time to time.