Rabbo Pro 12 Final thread(Teams included)

First topic message reminder :

Right, now, we know the teams, we know the venue, how do we think this one will pan out ? Although there is less at stake, I think that this game will be a lot better than HC final, and with Leinster having home advantage, it is hard to look past a Leinster win, but the Ospreys have been to the RDS this season and won so they will not fear going to Dublin, also Tandy has come in and breathed fresh air into the squad, but I still think Leinster will win but it will be very close, probably just a score in it. So I am going for Leinster by 3pts.

LEINSTER:

15: Rob Kearney 14: Fergus McFadden 13: Brian O'Driscoll 12: Gordon D'Arcy 11: Isa Nacewa 10: Jonathan Sexton 9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe 2: Sean Cronin 3: Mike Ross 4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN 5: Devin Toner 6: Kevin McLaughlin 7: Shane Jennings 8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Richardt Strauss 17: Cian Healy/Jack McGrath 18: Nathan White 19: Brad Thorn 20: Dominic Ryan 21: John Cooney 22: Ian Madigan 23: David Kearney

OSPREYS:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Hanno Dirksen
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Shane Williams
10 Dan Biggar
9 Rhys Webb
1 Paul James
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Adam Jones
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 Ryan Jones
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman
Replacements:
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Ryan Bevington
18 Aaron Jarvis
19 James King
20 Tom Smith
21 Kahn Fotuali'i
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Tom Isaacs[/quote]

ol it wasn't unclear for the 2nd yellow Jones very clearly went down first dragging White with him so there's your biomachanics.Clear as the big blue sky over the RDS yesterday,Poite had however already made up his mind and gave an unwarranted card.
Maybe your biased eyes are the ones with the problem.

I AM A NEUTRAL!! I had no horse in that race, I tuned in hoping for a good game, yes I am Welsh, but i also spend a lot of time and do a lot of work in and around Dublin! I like/dislike both teams.

But you do prove my point, you are letting emotion get the better of you, and you believe the scrum went one way, an O's supporter will think the exact opposite to you, you cannot both be right!!

Rory

Doesn't that highlight the weaknesses of the Leinster front row? Or is it bad luck and beyond their control?!

RubyGuby wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Has there been any citings from the match? I was sure that Jennings would get cited for stamping.

I think Poite' has been cited Billy - Hopefully no where near Dublin though - I heard he's having counselling from Allain Rollain

For once i am serious, i was certain that Jennings stamping would get cited.

Me too billy, it was a bad one and he seemed to be aiming at a head/hand near the ball.

Unjustified and I'm surprised he didn't get more than the mouthfull he did by a few players!

Jenings looked a blatant stamp - maybe the O's have overlooked it with their celebrations - It needs to be brought to someones atention as it looked out and out violence - Thanks for bringing it up Billy

And on the correct thread this time


Can everyone please cool down a touch. The snarkiness quotient from multiple posters is getting a tad depressing.

I only saw it in real time though so it may have looked a little less bad on replays

eirebilly wrote:I only saw it in real time though so it may have looked a little less bad on replays

You talking about Shanes 2nd try I take it

Shrink you scamp

Replays show it a bit better, it wasn't out and out horrible, the ball was near by but the stamping motion opposed to the kicking one was nasty.

Also thought there were a few harsh challenges on Williams, he went over for the tries with 2 players wrapped around his neck!

If you actually look at the scrum in slow motion you will see Jones go down first and drag White with him.I don't see any point in repeating myself further but that is what happened and if you watched the replay closely you'd see it.

On 6 minutes 21 seconds in the highlights you can see clearly Jones grabs Whites jersey on the chest area and pulls him down,penalty to Leinster ever day of the week.Stop the video on that time and look at Jones left hand.

Also look at this replay on 2 minutes and 30 seconds and tell me that Van der Merwe took hat down,again didn't happen they both went down together yet Poite wrongly penalised the Leinster prop.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/mdtv/?play=media&id=12042

Ok, i will have to check and see if i can find a replay but at the time it looked rather nasty and i felt he was lucky to escape a card.

Kiwireddevil wrote:And on the correct thread this time


Can everyone please cool down a touch. The snarkiness quotient from multiple posters is getting a tad depressing.

It was a passionate game played by two passionate sides followed by two passionate peoples............

Not exactly rocket science to conceive that there would be afters. I don't think many of the verbal combatants think this is a thread that is seriously decending into 'depressing' territory. I could be wrong, but I don't sense it.

Outside observers?...well yeah, coolness of neutrality and possibly not having even seen the game would lend itself to wondering what the hell is going on.

You say tom-ay-to, I say tom-ah-to...... .

you never know, one day, you might be able to beat leinster just because you were better than them on the day.


asore, why cant you do us all a favour and apply to the IRB so you can sort out the reffing of the scrums. I mean, you seem to have it completely down

SecretFly wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:And on the correct thread this time


Can everyone please cool down a touch. The snarkiness quotient from multiple posters is getting a tad depressing.

It was a passionate game played by two passionate sides followed by two passionate peoples............

Not exactly rocket science to conceive that there would be afters. I don't think many of the verbal combatants think this is a thread that is seriously decending into 'depressing' territory. I could be wrong, but I don't sense it.

Outside observers?...well yeah, coolness of neutrality and possibly not having even seen the game would lend itself to wondering what the hell is going on.

True enough. That was a friendly "just take care out there" note.

I caught the last 10 minutes, after spending most of the day recovering from the AP final I opted for a long walk after the Formula1 finished.

asoreleftshoulder - on 83 minutes 27 secs I was sinking my 8th pint - After 123 minutes and 16 secs, if you look closely you will see me reaching for the Malt Whisky - on 223 minutes 79 secs you will see me spewing in the front garden just where my missus planted a Gertrude Jeekel 7 hours and 49 minutes and 18 secs earlier. Lifes a beach eh, but thank you for your timely post

It's over, the clock has stopped and with a Twoite' of a ref it was still pure entertainment in which no team deserved to lose

Comfort wrote:

asore, why cant you do us all a favour and apply to the IRB so you can sort out the reffing of the scrums. I mean, you seem to have it completely down

Only problem is Everyone (Welsh and Irish) believes this ref on that sunny day hadn't it completely down. asore, can afford to have an opinion on it but I think the ref should have more than opinion and maybe re-familiarize himself with the rulebook?

That said, refs will be refs...oh boy will they be refs! I laughed as Clancy was seen scampering away from the action as quickly as he could when he realised Poite was melting. He didn't look like he wanted to be too close to the nuclear fallout. I love refs..they bring so much theatre to the game of rugby.

Sorry mate you are wrong. And I'll talk you through it...

VDM has started with a poor body angle, hips are below shoulders, and as he hits James he drives straight down. The hit is actually decently contested but as VDM's head hasn't engaged with James body, theyve connected on the way down and not driven straight.

Whit has firstly got his bind wrong, he's on Jones's arm, thats why it's hit the deck first. Jones couldn't get his bind because of this and even though he isn't binded yet he is opening his body to go straight through White, White has folded, instead of taking a step back he folded down.

Refs are taught to read body language, look where VDM and Whites bodies tough the ground, near their own feet, which means they haven't chased the hit, nor have they taken the hit!!! they could both have taken steps back to ensure the scrum stayed up, or kept their torso's open.

On both occasions they are penalties to Ospreys, sorry mate.

RubyGuby wrote:
It's over, the clock has stopped and with a Twoite' of a ref it was still pure entertainment in which no team deserved to lose

A big plus ONE for Ruby...and I'll buy him a drink later..or maybe he'll just buy one off me.....

missing healy, fitzgerald and sob other than that full stregnth.

what caused the scuffle at half time?? sexton had a bit of verbals with their pack after the scrum (dont tell sin e) and both sides were losing the rag with poite. apparently there was a ruckus in tunnel at the semis too

ospreys are a good side and credit to them for bossing rabo/magners recently but by jesus we owe them a beating next year.

Clancy did look as if he wanted the floor to open up and he could slip quietly away - His body language was saying "Mr Poite, what the feck are you doing out there"

It's been a bit snarky but it was 1 point final between passionate rivals.

If I could steer the conversation to something more positive that I think we'll all agree on; I thought the skills on show on both sides were remarkable. Some of Leinsters passing was mesmerizing. The ambition from both sides to run from deep, to offload from the tackle and to attack and counter attack relentlessly was brilliant. Even the kicking under pressure was mostly very accurate and often put the opposition under pressure.

Every time Leinster almost pulled away the Ospreys hit back. Every time Ospreys pulled it back Leinster hit back. Until the end. The AP final was really good. But I honestly think in terms of skill and accurate execution this was a higher level. We even had a scuffle in the tunnel at half time. It was high octane stuff. It was a breathtaking game in terms of drama. But also in terms of quality.

It was proof of the continuing advance of Celtic rugby in the pro era.

It wasn't just the ambition, Feckless, but the execution. Two teams not afraid of giving the ball some air.

Feckless

I'm not so sure, there were some very soft tries conceded, some very poor kicking out of hand, and missed tackles.

It was a very similar standard to the AP final but I wouldn't say better.

Waw! 19 pages, red ink, "snarkiness", the interest of HERSH pricked, debates over play offs good v bad, refereeing controversy, the Double Euro Champions beat at home, this league really has come of age in the last couple of years.

It could be argued that the 2nd card did Leinster a favour as it led to uncontested scrum, thereby nullifying the Ospreys supposed superiority, and allowing them to bring on another back rower. Certainly did the spectators a favour. I thought the two scrummages were pretty well matched when they actually stayed up, few good shoves for Leinster, few good shoves for Ospreys.

What do you suppose Sexton was saying to his forwards as he was slapping them on the back after the farce at the end of the 1st half? "Well done boys, you've folded in half approximately 0.005 of a second later than them, keep up the great work!"
I genuinely didn't think fatigue was going to be that much of an issue given that Leinster barely got out of 2nd gear against Ulster.
Either way, that's turning into a nice little rivalry, and I can't wait for the next game.
Ospreys seem to have really turned a corner with the one thing that has always plagued Welsh rugby - the mental game. We've seen them dig out a couple of hard-fought wins in Dublin now, and I hope it continues into next year.
As for Leinster, head and shoulders the best team in Europe, and I can't see any of the French/English sides posing too much of a threat to them currently. Ospreys v Leinster double final next year? We can but dream.

RubyGuby wrote:Clancy did look as if he wanted the floor to open up and he could slip quietly away - His body language was saying "Mr Poite, what the feck are you doing out there"

Actually more like..."Mr.Poite...Mr Poite!!! Please sir!!! I need to go to the toilet, sir!.......... No, no I can't hold onto it, sir, please and thankyou."

The quick lineoutes were awfull decisions! 1 resulted in a try, a chargedown kick that resulted in points, and the O's gave a few good areas away with poor decision making!

The O's definitely showed their inexperience at times, Dirksen (what was he doing for Nacewas try from the restart?!) and Webb especially at times, although Webb was excellant he was subjected to a brainfart or 2 with those throws!

Leinster just showed Kidney how Ireland need to be playing. Again.

Comfort

I disagree, thats a naiave view IMO!

And by the way - what about that one handed catch in the lineout from Ryan Jones - Play of the day or what

bluesman, we'll agree to disagree on this thread at the threat of going off topic

That catch was a beauty.

The whole ospreys pack played very well!

Yes.

RubyGuby wrote:And by the way - what about that one handed catch in the lineout from Ryan Jones - Play of the day or what

Toners two takes from the restarts for me

geoff998rugby wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:And by the way - what about that one handed catch in the lineout from Ryan Jones - Play of the day or what

Toners two takes from the restarts for me

I think I saw one hand and arm of a Welsh player supporting him as he leaped and leaned backwards...which was a bloody nice gesture! I'm serious, I think I saw that and I think it was support out of concern. Anyone think they saw that? Oh well, I'm seeing nice Welshmen everywhere now..it must be the sun getting to me!

The problem is that it usually rains in Wales, so visitors think we're horrible.

It rains in Wales? We call that light mist over here.

You Irish have to disagree on everything, don't you?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Sorry mate you are wrong. And I'll talk you through it...

VDM has started with a poor body angle, hips are below shoulders, and as he hits James he drives straight down. The hit is actually decently contested but as VDM's head hasn't engaged with James body, theyve connected on the way down and not driven straight.

Whit has firstly got his bind wrong, he's on Jones's arm, thats why it's hit the deck first. Jones couldn't get his bind because of this and even though he isn't binded yet he is opening his body to go straight through White, White has folded, instead of taking a step back he folded down.

Refs are taught to read body language, look where VDM and Whites bodies tough the ground, near their own feet, which means they haven't chased the hit, nor have they taken the hit!!! they could both have taken steps back to ensure the scrum stayed up, or kept their torso's open.

On both occasions they are penalties to Ospreys, sorry mate.

Now you're just making stuff up,on that replay you can't see Whites arm but you can see Jones grab his chest pull him down and his knee almost hits the ground.Why would Leinster collapse their own put in that close to the line when in the 2nd half when they had been able to dominate at least two scrums in that half.

On your body language thing,of course their heads will be near their feet,thats what happens when you try to stay on your feet and someone drags your head down.Jones flopped down like someone would if they wanted to pull a scrum down.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You Irish have to disagree on everything, don't you?

That's why we'll never agree with each other... we think you're headstrong, you think we're thick in the head; we think we have more real rain than you, you think you can sing better................

There's been a few myths pop up after this game, ones such as "Leinster dominated some scrums." Madness.

confused.com.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Rory

Doesn't that highlight the weaknesses of the Leinster front row? Or is it bad luck and beyond their control?!

It is no secret that the depth at front row in Ireland is pathetic. So yeah, the provinces are all pretty weak here.

I wouldn't say Ulster were particularly weak in the front row.

ASLS

Maybe your part of the reason Irish props struggle come scrum time. Have you ever played in a scrum?

You can clearly see Whites bind on the back of Jones arm, Jones has to take a second bite of the bind because of it. Analysis is my field.

You can disagree all you like, but you are 100% wrong sorry!!

Neither are Leinster - but the depth of irish qualified props is our weakness. The starting Leinster front row are very good I think. Thing is, they are quite weak when Ross isn't available. Ulster have a few good props coming through though, which is good.

Also, you can hardly claim someone is 100% wrong for having a different perspective than you..

Well he didn't have a different perspective than me, he was wrong.

I wasn't giving an opinion, I was stating facts, my analysis softwre doesn't lie, the laws of the game doesn't lie (ahem!) and the proffessional ref doesn't lie. All 3 state that Poites calls on the 2 occasions pointed out to me were correct, now in my view Poite got a couple calls wrong, but these 2 weren't them!

A professional referee may not lie, but they can certainly get things wrong. Your analysis itself may not be as factual as you think.

It is when I cover proffessional games!!! Trust me when I say everything is run through the laptops these days before even considering bothering with!!

I know of certain clubs who recreate set plays over and over on the training ground just to see how the laptops determine the outcomes!!

What if the data you feed into your programme is wrong? Or do you use some kind of super-laptop that can tell when you've put in dodgy data?

thebluesmancometh wrote:It is when I cover proffessional games!!! Trust me when I say everything is run through the laptops these days before even considering bothering with!!

I know of certain clubs who recreate set plays over and over on the training ground just to see how the laptops determine the outcomes!!

So how did you get this data for the Leinster-Ospreys match again? And how does this data make the calls right?