Rabbo Pro 12 Final thread(Teams included)

First topic message reminder :

Right, now, we know the teams, we know the venue, how do we think this one will pan out ? Although there is less at stake, I think that this game will be a lot better than HC final, and with Leinster having home advantage, it is hard to look past a Leinster win, but the Ospreys have been to the RDS this season and won so they will not fear going to Dublin, also Tandy has come in and breathed fresh air into the squad, but I still think Leinster will win but it will be very close, probably just a score in it. So I am going for Leinster by 3pts.

LEINSTER:

15: Rob Kearney 14: Fergus McFadden 13: Brian O'Driscoll 12: Gordon D'Arcy 11: Isa Nacewa 10: Jonathan Sexton 9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe 2: Sean Cronin 3: Mike Ross 4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN 5: Devin Toner 6: Kevin McLaughlin 7: Shane Jennings 8: Jamie Heaslip

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Richardt Strauss 17: Cian Healy/Jack McGrath 18: Nathan White 19: Brad Thorn 20: Dominic Ryan 21: John Cooney 22: Ian Madigan 23: David Kearney

OSPREYS:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Hanno Dirksen
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Shane Williams
10 Dan Biggar
9 Rhys Webb
1 Paul James
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Adam Jones
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 Ryan Jones
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman
Replacements:
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Ryan Bevington
18 Aaron Jarvis
19 James King
20 Tom Smith
21 Kahn Fotuali'i
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Tom Isaacs[/quote]

I think a certain Cardiff Blues fan has been telling porky pies (and not for the first time either).

Sorry I haven't read all the way back. This is a genuine question.... how does analysis software tell you which prop is at fault for dropping a scrum?

Morgannwg wrote:I think a certain Cardiff Blues man has been selling porky pies (and not for the first time either).

You don't put data into it!!

You upload video clips, you select which areas your looking at and it shows you thousands of differing things!

For example I uploaded the video clip earlier and it firstly pointed out the line of movement of VDM, hips shoulders core and where the weight ratio would be in conjunction with his body angles. the projected line of movement was downwards and infact moved towards James pelvis. Thats how I know VDM had no intention of competing but dropping the scrum.

There are thousands of ways to do things like this, rugby is very reliant on it!

thebluesmancometh wrote:You don't put data into it!!

You upload video clips

That didn't even take into account his foot positioning, work rate during competition, foot work after hit, head neck and cervical vertabrae, knee and ankle angles, hip flexor movement.

PS leave off on calling someone a liar until you know a fact, from your posting Morg your making me a little embarrassed of being Welsh!

So the clips only analyse body positions?

Stop winding us up bluesman...

Where did the video footage come from?

The clips analyse nothing. The software analyses pretty much whatever you want (in some cases)!!

Who's winding anybody up? I urge all of you to go and take a look at the 2 scrums in question, and tell me instead of Osprey penalties they should've been Leinster penalties!!!

Whats the name of the software package? How many planes of motion can you analyse with it and what is the source of the footage?

I think the software is called "Bluesman's Imagination".

The only one I can use is Dartfish at present (unless I do some work then far superior packages are available to me)

From the clip I used 1 dimension was used, of which the hit can be accurately analysed as the movement is or should be almost horizontal through the saggital plane! Would you like me to explain which Axis is viewed, maybe an explenation of key terminology? Or an essay? Maybe I should attatch a copy of my dissertation...

We are officially off the subject...

I am not here to justify myself to any of you, I was commenting on 2 specific scrums that went for the Ospreys and was argued that they should've been a Leinster penalty, does nobody have an opinion on that?!

Dont want to get involved in this but there is software out there that can do eactly what thebluesman is saying. There is also software that can make 3D models of things like this.
I have no idea what the name of them are but i have seen them used in other sports like American football.

No I'd like you to explain how you got an accurately placed and calibrated camera placed in the RDS at the exact side on angle and height to take the footage that you used to analyse the the body positions of the props.

Can you take us through the full process?

It's ok billy, we are off that now. As soon as someone starts googling what I've been saying they will soon move to another thread.

PS a massive amount of tech comes from American colleges, ploughed with money in the sporting area, a lot of american football paves the way for rugby!

For example, i grew up using Autocad (a technical drawing software) but now use a 3D model for all of my drawings.

I'm aware of AutoCAD Billy but don't you need a specific 3D camera to take the imagery?

NO, it's way too complicated. There are numerous camera angles, and software these days doesn't actually need perfect side on shots, although the ones I used were virtually!

Camera usage use to be have a high discrepency rate, but again not any more, your living 5 years ago.

The best software packages around can take a photo assess a situation and predict outcomes pretty accurately. There is an experimental package sanctioned by the ACSM and UKSCA that actually coaches instead of just showing. It can highlight flaws in lifting techniques, determine power output, and even assume hydration levels based on a video clip over 100m away.

Have I proved enough or would you like to google some more inane questions to try to catch me out?

rodders wrote:I'm aware of AutoCAD Billy but don't you need a specific 3D camera to take the imagery?

No mate you dont. My design team draw complete platforms from scratch in 3D (Navis).
I am not sure how they do it in sports, i just know that it is available and the measurements are really easy to come by

Just out of interest isn't Auto cad computer aided design and was the first to draw the perfect circle? I have never come across it but the missus uses it for engineering purposes?!

I hooked up Adam Jones to a lie detector after the match. He said he didn't pull down the scrums and it started beeping and flashing. Case closed.

96% accuracy is too little these days unless your on jeremy kyle

No I don't need to google questions Bluesman. I'm aware there are analysis packages out there but I think you are talking bollix mate....

Not sure about the perfect circle but its an engineering tool

You can think what you like mate...

The problem with this board is that everyone can act as they like with anonimity, pretend to be whatever they like and say whatever they like. I understand your sceptecism.

thebluesmancometh wrote:The clips analyse nothing. The software analyses pretty much whatever you want (in some cases)!!

Who's winding anybody up? I urge all of you to go and take a look at the 2 scrums in question, and tell me instead of Osprey penalties they should've been Leinster penalties!!!

Looked at them and the first one should have been a reset the second one a penalty to Leinster,I'm not arrogant enough to claim you're 100% wrong but I am confident in my own judgement and can see what the O's prop was doing in the 2nd scrum.He quite clearly grabs Whites chest 1st time,there was no second grab.Then he pulls down and twists his outside shoulder down to get more weight before fallling forward and nearly going onto his knees.

Lets just agree to disagree ASLS, you disagree with me, the ref, the analysis software and the laws.

Was the 2nd yellow card on Leinsters put in? I can't remember and I can't bring myself to rewatch any of it.

1. Just from looking at the replay from the side at the time, it looks like Jones pulled it down

2. After Brad Thorn came on and Leinster were shoving Ospreys back in the scrums. There wasn't any danger of being driven back over their own line conceding possession and gifting a try.

3. Why would the Leinster prop pull it down so close to his line on his own teams put in anyway? It makes no sense. Any team would put it in get it out quick and kick it away.

4. Why would Jones try to trick the ref and win the penalty in such a position? It makes perfect sense.

5. Poite has reputation for these sort of controversies at scrum time.

All in all it looks to me like Poite got the 2nd yellow card completely wrong. Plus there was no warning. It came out of the blue, which was unusual.

thebluesmancometh wrote:That didn't even take into account his foot positioning, work rate during competition, foot work after hit, head neck and cervical vertabrae, knee and ankle angles, hip flexor movement.

PS leave off on calling someone a liar until you know a fact, from your posting Morg your making me a little embarrassed of being Welsh!

Pfft says you steviegen. Stop winding us all up you WUM!

sorry, did someone just say that the leinster scrum was pushing the ospreys one "backwards" when Brad Thorne came on.

Try wheeling it as much as they could

I shouldn't have gotten back into the scrum argument actually. It's pointless for 2 reasons

1. You can't assume Leinster would have won if the call went the other way. Ospreys might have won by more than a point. Who knows? They certainly weren't giving up under any circumstances

2. Remember Leinster destroyed the Tigers lineout in last years quarter final, by continuously obstructing the arms of the Tigers jumpers? McLaughlin did it all day and got away with it. We hailed it as "smart". Even if the Irish is perspective correct regarding the 2nd yellow, we have to accept we got done by a world class scummager who did his homework. We're no angels either. No good set piece or breakdown specialist is.

Obviously we're annoyed at the refereeing. And obviously the Ospreys don't like the focus on the referee and want recognition for their great achievement. Let's just give it to them. They deserve it.

Lier???

Feckless

You make good points, but the warning came after the first yellow card, end of first half. He warned Cullen if it was brought down again another yellow was coming.

I won't reiterate my whole argument again and again, but Jones opens his body to go forward, White folds while pulling on the arm, if Jones bind on Whites shirt says anything it's that Jones bind was legal and he was ready to scrummage. If White wanted that scrum up he couldve adjusted his feet after the initial hit or even driven into Jones instead of below Jones.

There was one scrum that Poite did get wrong, Ospreys had lost the hit and went a yard or 2 back and arguably the pop up couldve been penalised, as it happened Bearman offloaded to noone and Leinster won the ball back anyway.l

Thats where I disagree with you Feckless. Leinster were the better team, profiting from poor Ospreys play, and were dominant in every area besides the scrum. Poite was poor but I think Ospreys got the worse end of him, but Leinster deserved the game, and the double after their season.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lets just agree to disagree ASLS, you disagree with me, the ref, the analysis software and the laws.

As Ruby said...maybe at this stage we could all just say that the whistle has blown, the game is over, the winners have been declared, it was a lovely day, a great game and it had the suitable drama that lends itself to being remembered...oh and it had - well - yet another glorious swan song from Shane.

The politics of who might have won, should have won, should have been booked, should have worn more sunblock etc ...well, they all pale (pardon the pun) in significance when you appreciate it was just a very involving rugby game and respected the ideals of a final.

Britney Spears always mimes when she performs live on stage. I know this because I once uploaded a YouTube video of her to my analysis software. I selected the area to look at (her mouth), it showed me thousands of different things including her miming being out of sync with the lyrics that were being heard by third parties.

She has no intention of entertaining, but simply miming. Needless to say I'm not longer a Britney Spears fan.

Morgannwg wrote:Britney Spears always mimes when she performs live on stage. I know this because I once uploaded a YouTube video of her to my analysis software. I selected the area to look at (her mouth), it showed me thousands of different things including her miming being out of sync with the lyrics that were being heard by third parties.

She has no intention of entertaining, but simply miming. Needless to say I'm not longer a Britney Spears fan.

Hmmm, so you've just admitted you were once a Britney Spears fan ...

Britney Spears?? Oh now that's just a joke. This is going too far. I already sold the software to Sony that I created, which proved that there isn't and never was a person called Britney Spears. She was just a mass optical illusion that lasted for some time due to the intensity of a sun flare in January 1999.

Sun flare in 99? I missed that, it could have given my a lifetime tan.

KRD - I may be a Britney Spears fan but Britney is a Morgannwg fan.

Morgannwg wrote:Sun flare in 99? I missed that, it could have given my a lifetime tan.

KRD - I may be a Britney Spears fan but Britney is a Morgannwg fan.

Good comeback

That makes 1...

eirebilly wrote:Has there been any citings from the match? I was sure that Jennings would get cited for stamping.

You can stamp on someone's hand/arm if they won't release the ball. He did it in front of the ref there was nothing in it.

Ospreys are a very good team and it was always going to be tough but I do think in particular the second yellow was unwarranted and 20 minutes against the ospreys with 14 men was too big an ask even for Leinster. Credit to Williams on two well taken tries. Leinsters had a bad day in defense.

I think the challenge for the ospreys must now be to get at least to the semis of the Hcup next year. Anything less is an underachievement as I believe they are at least as good as ulster, better than all English teams and probably only marginally behind Leinster, Clermont and Toulouse at this stage, certainly their first 15 anyway.

leinsterbaby wrote: You can stamp on someone's hand/arm if they won't release the ball. He did it in front of the ref there was nothing in it.

You canNOT stamp on someone's hand/arm if they are not releasing - it's foul play

I've stayed off this thread, until things "calmed" down. I thought the Ospreys just about deserved to shade it - if only for the way they refused to lie down. As the little winger himself said it was "commendable". However, I don't hold with the "we've beaten you 3 times this season so we are much better than you"
Leinster have been magnificent this season, they just caught the O's on their own rich vein of form. Another day and it could have gone the other way

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lets just agree to disagree ASLS, you disagree with me, the ref, the analysis software and the laws.

Ah yes when you can't win an argument with facts try condescension

On a rather brighter note...

Re: Rabbo Pro 12 Final thread(Teams included)
by HERSH on Thu 24 May 2012, 11:29 am

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I'll tell you what if the Ospreys win I'll buy one of their lovely shirts.
.
HERSH


Posts: 2374
Join date: 2011-08-26
Location: Bath

Which shirt do you think mr Hersh will be going for?

Come on HERSH get some photos up wearing your new Ospreys shirt!