narowing the gulf between Wales and New Zealand

Having both annoucned their international side for the upcoming summer tests. it is clear to see their is still a bg gulf in quality between these two rugby nations.
In the welsh squad, you have no blatant omissions from the squad other than lee byrne whos with clermont duty. ther are only really two players wh possible have reason to be unlucky to have missed out and that is Gareth Davies, Adam Hughes. In the squad, the only non capped/former squad fringe players included in the squad on the basis of the form theyve shown this season are liam williams, rhys Webb aaron shingler and Ashley Beck. (debate over ken owens due to lack of hooker depth in wales) Other players such as Bevington , Robinson and Rhodri Jones are involved due to their future potential rather than current form. (which is fine, the all blacks have a couple of young ones in the squad as well).
Looking at the NZ Squad however, and you will see their are some enormous omissions. Andre Taylor and Robbie Freaun could not have done anything more to get into the squad. Horsea Gear, Zac Guildford, Jimmy Cowan, Anthony borich & leila masanga are all players of international standard. The new players involved such as Savea, Barett, Retallick and aaron smith as well as former fringe players such as Cruden and ben smith have also been outstanding this year and also rightly deserve their place.
My point it the fact nz can decide not to involve so many outstanding rugby players yet still be able to pick uncapped players who truly deserve their place show their is still a large gulf in the quality available to the welsh selectors compared to their new zealand counterparts. I myself belive the situation in Wales has improved dramatically over the last 5 years but their is still clearly plenty to be done.
p.s any squad containing the likes of will harries clearly shows wales has some depth issues.

We still have issues at a 'real 7' and hardened locks and 6.

9 and 10 looks streets better than this time last year and the midfield is also crowding into the Nonu/ SBW/ Smith dominated area of last year.

But yes many have come on, come back and really good players have been overlooked.

Still only 15 can start so its still a matter of getting the right combinations etc on the day.

Does look promising though.

Wales are a bit further ahead in identifying their newer crop of players whereas for us this is definitely day 1 so that might be interpreted as a bit more 'stability' coming through in the Welsh game, and less so for the AB's.

But since Wales gave us Hansen back the gap has closed

Welsh squad is missing Jamie Roberts too. He declared himself unfit a while ago. Craig Mitchell is also absent.

What are you saying? that the gulf used to be 'massive', and now its only 'huge'?

lostinwales wrote:What are you saying? that the gulf used to be 'massive', and now its only 'huge'?

No difference between the gulf between NZ and anyone else. Going on the last time we saw them play. they are ten points clear in the IRB rankings and have barely lost a game of rugby since their inception.

Played 484 tests


Won 364 tests - That 76% of all their games, that is the best by far out of all countries.
(By comparison SA is next with 65%, France & England 57%, Wales 53%, Australia 52%, Ireland 44%, Scotland 42%)


Drawn 17 - five vs Oz, 3 vs Lions and SA, 2 vs Scots and 1 vs Eng, Fra and IRE

Lost 103 - 41 vs Oz, 34 vs SA, 12 vs France, 6 vs Lions and Eng, 3 vs Wales and 1 vs a World XV

lostinwales wrote:What are you saying? that the gulf used to be 'massive', and now its only 'huge'?

fairplay!

hey leave off will harries - he's alright like

I'm impressed we're as high as 54% win rate after the 80s and 90s!

Nothing wrong with Will Harries, good 7s and club player.

The whole point of this Baa Baas game is to see who is ready to take or retake the step up to International level.

And as for the thread, Nz better than Wales shocker Please...

The first step for Wales is to narrow the gap between 5th & 4th in the crucial IRB rankings for seedings in the WC.

Beating Australia should be the only focus but I get your post. NZ have great strength in depth.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:The first step for Wales is to narrow the gap between 5th & 4th in the crucial IRB rankings for seedings in the WC.

Beating Australia should be the only focus but I get your post. NZ have great strength in depth.

+1

theres nothing wrong in wanting to reach for the stars. although for obvious reasons we could never attempt to eliminate france or england in terms of player number/squad depth i see no reason why we as wales shouldnt have the same strength in depth as New zealand. We both enjoy our rugby and have similar populations. the only difficult obstacle to overcome for wales in matching new zealand squad depth is is the fact new zealand have 5 elite rugby regions whereas we have four. the have a superior playing numbers but that could easily narrowed in the future.

I think more important is narrowing the gap between the first squad. You don't get prizes for depth. Look at France. They have huge depth and are inconsistent at best. Australia, on the other hand, are thin on depth but outperform themselves.

Results are more important. Wales have a very good core squad and injuries will always happen. The next step is winning in Australia and then assessing from there for the autumn internationals. Comparing depth with NZ and most other countries is going to make stark comparisons.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think more important is narrowing the gap between the first squad. You don't get prizes for depth. Look at France. They have huge depth and are inconsistent at best. Australia, on the other hand, are thin on depth but outperform themselves.

Results are more important. Wales have a very good core squad and injuries will always happen. The next step is winning in Australia and then assessing from there for the autumn internationals. Comparing depth with NZ and most other countries is going to make stark comparisons.

I agree,

All countries are different, the strength and depth applicable and the resultant quality of the countries rugby team is subject to far more.

Though I can see the point of this thread examining what NZ has, as a comparably sized nation with an equal passion for the sport.

There is much about modern Rugby that we have learnt from NZ.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think more important is narrowing the gap between the first squad. You don't get prizes for depth. Look at France. They have huge depth and are inconsistent at best. Australia, on the other hand, are thin on depth but outperform themselves.

Results are more important. Wales have a very good core squad and injuries will always happen. The next step is winning in Australia and then assessing from there for the autumn internationals. Comparing depth with NZ and most other countries is going to make stark comparisons.

I agree.

"Narrowing the gap" is what won Wales the 6Ns after all.

Tipuric for Warburton

Ian Evans and Bradley for AWJ and Charteris

Ken Owens for Huw Bennett for Matthew Rees (Ken Owens is now probably better than both)

Ryan Jones for anybody in the first 15

Scott Williams for Jamie Roberts

Those were the narrowing that won the GS, and hopefully more will follow

For the future

Ashley Beck for Scott Williams for Jamie Roberts

Dan Biggar/James Hook for Rhys Preistland

Liam Williams for Leigh Halfpenny

Ryan Bevington for Gethin Jenkins

Craig Mitchell for Adam Jones

I don´t think you can describe Wales' Grand Slam as closing the gap. What happened in the 6N is an indication that Wales have the ability to close the gap. But they can only close the gap once they have won games against the SH giants.

That said, what impressed me about Wales this 6N was their ability to keep their composure and self-belief. Incredibly they were down to 14 men near the closing stages against Ireland and England and they still had the composure to know their best chances lay in running up the ball, being patient and scoring whwen it mattered. Those abilities are under pressure are what are needed against the SH teams as their margin for error are much lower than in Europe in general terms. But as of yet, Wales have failed to exhibit these important qualities for the full 80 minutes against the SH sides. They have shown glimpses and in recent times have put in performances close to complete performances but they're not quite there yet. There is an all important psychological barrier still to break through but once it is broken Wales are talented enough to exert that psychological pressure themselves. It's a bit like that awful baseball movie: if you build it, they will come.

1st job for Wales is trying to close the gap at junior level (U20s).

It will be progress for Wales if they do better than last season in the U20s.

beshocked wrote:1st job for Wales is trying to close the gap at junior level (U20s).

It will be progress for Wales if they do better than last season in the U20s.

Is there enough time in a match for them to have done any worse?

Certainly selected a more potent squad than last year.

Tough group for the lads though.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I don´t think you can describe Wales' Grand Slam as closing the gap. What happened in the 6N is an indication that Wales have the ability to close the gap. But they can only close the gap once they have won games against the SH giants.

That said, what impressed me about Wales this 6N was their ability to keep their composure and self-belief. Incredibly they were down to 14 men near the closing stages against Ireland and England and they still had the composure to know their best chances lay in running up the ball, being patient and scoring whwen it mattered. Those abilities are under pressure are what are needed against the SH teams as their margin for error are much lower than in Europe in general terms. But as of yet, Wales have failed to exhibit these important qualities for the full 80 minutes against the SH sides. They have shown glimpses and in recent times have put in performances close to complete performances but they're not quite there yet. There is an all important psychological barrier still to break through but once it is broken Wales are talented enough to exert that psychological pressure themselves. It's a bit like that awful baseball movie: if you build it, they will come.

14 + referee on some games is the true. Might not be bias referee but Wales certainly get the bounce on the green that times. How much is about compose and how much is about luck still wait to see.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I don´t think you can describe Wales' Grand Slam as closing the gap. What happened in the 6N is an indication that Wales have the ability to close the gap. But they can only close the gap once they have won games against the SH giants.

That said, what impressed me about Wales this 6N was their ability to keep their composure and self-belief. Incredibly they were down to 14 men near the closing stages against Ireland and England and they still had the composure to know their best chances lay in running up the ball, being patient and scoring whwen it mattered. Those abilities are under pressure are what are needed against the SH teams as their margin for error are much lower than in Europe in general terms. But as of yet, Wales have failed to exhibit these important qualities for the full 80 minutes against the SH sides. They have shown glimpses and in recent times have put in performances close to complete performances but they're not quite there yet. There is an all important psychological barrier still to break through but once it is broken Wales are talented enough to exert that psychological pressure themselves. It's a bit like that awful baseball movie: if you build it, they will come.

Nice appraisal.

We have had a few close matches over the last couple of years, this squad is still learning and improving. Patience is the key, and Priestland is a far more patient flyhalf than Jones or Hook who used to get frustrated with defences if they didnt open up after five or six phases.

Its all a learning process.