Vitali

Just a quick question on the older of the 2 brothers. As it seems widely agreed that his boxing skills are diminishing with age(only natural), do you think he will be smart enough to get out while hes on top? Or will he go the way of many other top boxers and continue boxing until he picks up the enevitable lose?(or several).

I personally think he is the type of man who will know when to call it a day, and leave the sport as a reigning champion.

Would have to think likewise, the problem he may have is the division is that poor even allowing for his diminishing skills he would still start as favourite against pretty much anyone outside his family, which makes it tempting to keep going. However he does seem to have interests outside the ring such as politics and humanitarian work so would not surprise me to see him hang them up within the next 12 months.

He's been fairly consistent in his views (at least the ones I've seen) over the past twelve months; he said after Adamek he was only interested in one, perhaps two more fights. He's beaten Chisora since then, and I agree that he's a smart enough fella to realise that the fight in question was harder work for him than it would have been a few years back. I fully expect him to fight once more this year and then go out as WBC champion. The only way I see him carrying on past 2012 is if he wants to knock out Haye before waltzing off in to retirement. May have to wait until early 2013 for that, given that Haye generally sees it as a huge inconvenience to have to box any more frequently than once every six months.

88Chris05 wrote: May have to wait until early 2013 for that, given that Haye generally sees it as a huge inconvenience to have to box any more frequently than once every six months.

You try fitting in a more active fight schedule between starring in all those Hollywood blockbusters.

didnt he fight on the vitali/chisora undercard?

On the subject, given his age is catching up on him, do you believe he could knock haye out? Given hayes tactics against wlad, i think if he tried the same against vitali he could have more success as he is the slower of the 2. Doubt haye would get the ko though, i would take a guess as the result being a close UD for vitali.

On a slighlty unrelated note, is it normal for some boxers to try and convert there ring success and fame into a political career. I know a certain phillipino boxer whos name currently escapes me, is considering that route. And know you mention vitali is also interested?

the thing with vitali is he has the same physical advantages as his brother had which was hayes problem with wlad. vitali also has the chin to take hayes shot so i fail to see how haye can win.

and i think vitali may not have quite the same power as he used to, but i still feel 5-6 heavy punchs in a row would send haye to the canvas

Haye (I find him funny, don't mind him as a person away from the cameras) would win a decision against Vitali, he'd never knock him out, and Haye is too elusive for Vitali to hit now. 2 years ago Vitali would eat him alive, but now Vitali really has slowed, his fitness is a little questionable, but at 40 going 12 rounds when I struggle to go 6 is no mean feat.

haye might be alusive but he cant win a fight (or win any fans) fighting that way, vitali will just jab jab jab and win rounds. plus i think vitali is experenced enough to not let haye get into the fight.

I still think Vitali makes mincemeat out of Haye.

I understand the concerns regarding Vitali's age, and that he can't fight the ful twelve rounds at the same pelt as he could a few years ago (not that setting a high pace was ever his strong suit, anyway). But since when was Haye the fighter to exploit this? His Heavyweight pace has been just about as pedestrian as it gets.

Circling on the outside and throwing twenty punches per round isn't likely to trouble Vitali, is it? I'm sure Haye and his fans will tell us all that he'd go about things differently against Vitali, but having seen him use this as his gameplan against Valuev, Ruiz, Audley and Wladimir in succession, I have my doubts.

If Vitali deteriorates rapidly over the next few months then Haye might have a chance. But in 2012 I'd still back Vitali, and heavily at that. Throws too much, hits too hard, takes a punch too well and is just too strong inside to lose to Haye.

eddyfightfan wrote:the thing with vitali is he has the same physical advantages as his brother had which was hayes problem with wlad. vitali also has the chin to take hayes shot so i fail to see how haye can win.

and i think vitali may not have quite the same power as he used to, but i still feel 5-6 heavy punchs in a row would send haye to the canvas

Whens the last time you seen Vitali land a 5-6 punch combo? He may have the size but he doesn't have the footwork or control of range that Wlad has. Not saying that Haye would win but Vitali is a different proposition to Wlad. I think hes really on the slide.

I think Vitali is on the slide but hes still well ahead of the competition outside his brother on recent showings.

The two most relevant performances Haye has had to facing vitali is Wlad and Valuev. On both of those performances its hard to see him beating even a 60% Vitali. Granted, wlad may now be the better of the two but I dont think Vitali is any slower or more cumbersome that Valuev was and thats a fight I think Haye nicked. I cant see him beating Vitali like that.

Injuries seem to Vitalis biggest threat now rather than anyone in the division. His shoulder problems are having an effect on his power and jab.

I disagree slightly with the consensus in that I fear Vitali might push the envelope one time too often given his strange desperation to fight David Haye, a boxer who's already been processed by his kid brother.

When Haye does the inevitable and beats Chisora the Bermondsey fakester will probably get a totally undeserved title shot against Vitali and given the ageing Ukrainian's last showing he may well lose this fight to soemone he would have slowly tortured in his prime.

Personally I don't think Haye can win against VK for a number of reasons.

First, I don't beleive he throws enough punches, and that VK, depleted as he may be, will still control the range and tempo of the fight with his jab to score enough points to bag the rounds, in a similar albeit less effective manner than WK. Haye doesn't have the power to KO or even KD Vit, and I doubt he would deviate from his hit and run tactics too much.

Second, I don't think Haye can win a decision in Germany against Vitali. I though Chisora did far better than anyone expected, and I personally had Chisora winning a fair few, and even had some rounds quite close, particularly since it was Chisora who was forcing the issue, but the judges still gave virtually every round for VK.

Some people might think Haye could win in similar fashion to how he beat Valuev, yet even that fight was and is debatable, and I personally think the powers that be knew the game was up with Valuev in terms of retaining his title with any dignity/respect and also in terms of making money off him, particularly in light of the Holyfield fight, and so IMO anyone who put in a half decent showing stood a chance on the cards.

On the other hand, the K's are Germany's adopted sons, no one will get an easy, or even fair ride from the judges when they fight. If Haye has some rounds which are close, they will still more than likely go to VK just becuase he has home advantage. Haye's history in Germany, the poor showing against Wlad, and the brawl with Chisora will further damage his image in Germany.

The only way Haye could win in my opinion, would be for him to be so active and aggressive and to throw so many punches that it couldn't possibly be scored against him. We are talking about Joe Frazier volumes of punches.

I don't think Haye can or would do this.

I still think Vitali is the best heavyweight out there and would destroy his brother within a few rounds if they were to fight. A huge part of Wlad's safety first and franky dull style rely on the fact he is so big, hence his fairly decent jab becomes almost a defensive shield against todays limited heavyweight fighters who are often over a foot smaller than himself. Vitali's own size would negate a huge part of this advantage and his power and chin would be the difference allowing him to come close enough to land the bombs on Wlad's very suspect chin.

"todays limited heavyweight fighters who are often over a foot smaller than himself"

Can you please tell me who WK has fought who is under 5'6?

smashingstormcrow wrote:"todays limited heavyweight fighters who are often over a foot smaller than himself"

Can you please tell me who WK has fought who is under 5'6?

A kneeling down David Haye?

smashingstormcrow wrote:"todays limited heavyweight fighters who are often over a foot smaller than himself"

Can you please tell me who WK has fought who is under 5'6?

Sorry, that was supposed to be half a foot.

Against Chisora Vitali looked like time had caught up with him. He seemed to lack the same snap in his punches and looked a bit slow and almost clumsy at times.

I hope he goes out on top I'm not a K Bro hater. They are not the reason the division has suffered it's guys like Arreola and Chisora who are not athletes just fat lumps that have killed the division.

Got to agree Kev, the problem with the division is not the brothers style it is the fact there is nobody out there good enough to force them to develop a plan B, dread to think what a wasteground the division would have been post Lewis without the brothers.

Kalle Sauerland reckons there are 4 or 5 heavyweights about to turn pro after the games all Eastern European. It won't excite the Americans that much but hopefully he is right.

I don't see either brother going on much longer. Wlad seemed a bit fed up with it after the Mormeck fight.

Solis is another fat man who could have had a chance if he put in the effort in the gym but he was so heavy his knee gave way.

rowley wrote:Got to agree Kev, the problem with the division is not the brothers style it is the fact there is nobody out there good enough to force them to develop a plan B, dread to think what a wasteground the division would have been post Lewis without the brothers.

Tough to call competetive fights with the belts swapping around a lot more with fights being more than just a foregone conclusion?

Granted the quality isn't as high but at the very least the matchups could be remotely interesting.

I don't think he has any real skills to lose......

Just an average bully boy who's always traded on his amazing height and weight advantages and his great capacity to take a shot!!!

If you can point to any fight where he shows any definable skill then please let me know..

Have a little look at how fantastic he's able to time fighters coming in? Just saying.

Very Ali like.....

... Well, I answered you, do I get a prize?

AlexHuckerby wrote:

rowley wrote:Got to agree Kev, the problem with the division is not the brothers style it is the fact there is nobody out there good enough to force them to develop a plan B, dread to think what a wasteground the division would have been post Lewis without the brothers.

Tough to call competetive fights with the belts swapping around a lot more with fights being more than just a foregone conclusion?

I believe that Skelton-Sprott matched such a description, Alex. Suffice to say, I wouldn't want to sit through such a turgid affair ever again. The fights you allude to would only be 'competitive' and 'tough to call' because most of the combatants would be just as bad as each other, so to speak. I doubt they'd offer up any more excitement than the fights of each brother have done, too, given that Heavyweights with the conditioning to throw more than twenty punches per round seem to come at a premium these days.

God knows, my attitude towards the Heavyweight division since Lewis retired could only be described as lukewarm at best, but it amazes me that some seem to suggest that they'd actually have preferred the division over the past decade had the two brothers not been around. Two (relative) diamonds in the rough is surely better than rough, rough and more rough alone, isn't it?

Not saying the alternative is all that much better but what I'm saying is in the very least you look at the fight and you have think about who the winner will be.

Slightly like the cruisers now, not the greatest quality ever, of course, but most of them have a good blend of styles and opponents around the same level to make fights interesting to watch.

If we were to take out the Klitschkos at this very moment in time there would be interesting fights that could be made for genuine World title fights. Mitchell - Arreola or Fury - Povetkin etc. Might just be me, but I actually would personally much rather those than see Wlad beat up Mormeck...

"Like the cruisers now..not the greatest quality ever...."

Mate it's never been in any different.......

Shocking invention.........

eddyfightfan wrote:the thing with vitali is he has the same physical advantages as his brother had which was hayes problem with wlad. vitali also has the chin to take hayes shot so i fail to see how haye can win.

and i think vitali may not have quite the same power as he used to, but i still feel 5-6 heavy punchs in a row would send haye to the canvas

Vit is not a good a boxer as Wlad. Never has been either. Haye will land more often and will be caught less. Vit is very slow and has terrible footwork.I can even see a late stoppage for haye.

I think it says alot that Haye is coming out of retirement to fight Chisora. Before his whole agenda was only a Klitschko was good enough, he wanted redemption, all other heavies were pointless and beneath him. Yet, as with Audley, when a nice lucrative offer comes around for a heavyweight that fight that would have been classed "a bum/joke/plum" 6 months ago Haye is back, supposedly by popular demand.

The translation from this for is that Haye only wanted a Vitali fight for the money it offered. The whole everyone else is beneath me, I want to save the division, I want redemption stuff is basically "I want money".

I never have been convinced Hayes proposed match with Vitali was anything other than a money spinner for Haye and am not sure even Haye himself believed he could win it.

All boxers fight for money, but the key point for is was I think its a strong possibility this was the only motivator for Haye and had a Vitali fight gone ahead it may well have been a case of Haye showing up to take the money and receive as little physical damage as possible - but no real attempt at winning the fight.

I don't disagree with that at all. I don't think Haye likes fighting too much (boxing that is).