Irish squad for Baa Baas match

First topic message reminder :

Ireland Squad (v Barbarians, Gloucester, May 29th):

Forwards (13):
Rory Best (Banbridge-Ulster)
Tom Court (Malone-Ulster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon-Ulster)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon-Ulster)*
Chris Henry (Belfast Harlequins-Ulster)
Ronan Loughney (Galwegians-Connacht)*
John Muldoon (Galwegians-Connacht)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution-Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution-Munster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon-Munster)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen-Munster)*
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena-Ulster)
A.N.Other

Backs (11):
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins-Ulster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster-Munster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon-Ulster)*
Paul Marshall (Ballynahinch-Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen-Munster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution-Munster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch-Ulster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena-Ulster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena-Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution-Munster)*
A.N. Other

No Leinster players bewcause of Pro12 play off
* uncapped

I suppose you are right rodders, there isn't much point worrying about it, because we all know what we are going to see:

D'Arcy - O'Driscoll

I will be VERY surprised if that isn't the centre partnership for the tour.

Do you guys think Earls will be starting 13 in this barbarians game? Despite there being 2 proper 13s there?

Yup.

The only change I can see is if Earls puts his foot down about playing centre and D'arcy doesn't up his level then BOD and Earls will be paired together... but then if BOD isn't happy then that won't happen either....

It could get messy! Watch this space!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Do you guys think Earls will be starting 13 in this barbarians game? Despite there being 2 proper 13s there?

Yes I do. I do genuinely see him playing alongside Cave rather than Wallace though.

That is disappointing rodders, that he is being chosen at 13 because he demands to play there, when there are two more talented 13s available in that squad. The 15 spot is open, and I genuinely think Earls is best in that position. He should play there for this game.

Actually, looking at that squad, you have to wonder why Jones isn't there and there is no 15. Maybe Earls is being considered to play 15 for this one? Jones hasn't been playing very well recently.

Jones is out injured for 4 months Rory.

I think the A.N. Other will be Dave Kearney if he doesn't play in the Rabo final or else Gavin Duffy. It could be Madigan but I can't believe they won't pick a specialist 15.

When did he get injured??

Not sure, he's having shoulder surgery....its in the Irish papers..posted a link in the pub earlier.

Given the injury to Tommy Bowe, and Andrew Trimbles distinct lack of form, and Earls strike rate at international level; plus the return of O'Driscoll and the form of Darren Cave I'd say we should play Earls in his best position; the wing. In this squad I would have said start him at fullback with a view to moving him across to the left wing once the tests start.

I actually don't have a problem if Earls is picked ahead of Cave, it's the prospect of Cave or Spence being moved to 12 which would make me annoyed. Looking at the squad, Wallace is the only specialist 12 there and we have three outside centres. I;m not optimistic we'll see the right call made. Some centres can play 12/13 equally well. I think McFadden can and I have high hopes that Chris Farrell coming through at Ulster can. Spence is a bit too one dimensional for international centre in general and Cave, Earls is best utilised at 13 and Cave is a consummate 13.

You can't really judge cave on anything other than HEC. He Ballsed up one pass and saved what would most likely have been a certain try with his tackle on 70 mins and also got us field position for one of our penalties. Not a bad turnaround.

We really should be looking at him as a 13 and that alone. If Deccie maintains earls there then fair enough but we need new blood in the centre. Our younger options are at 13 so bod has to move.

Yeah, BOD has to move. It's that simple. The best rugby brain in the backs and one of the best tacklers; if we're moving a young centre to accommodate him at 13, you have to wonder.

Notch you say Cave is a consumate 13, well I would say that about O'Driscoll too.

How can you argue that one should/could move but not the other?

Personally I would rather see either play 12 than McFadden play 13.

Theres a number of different combinations there but until we try them then we won't know if they will work.

Some have been tried last season and failed (imo) like Wallace and Earls, McFadden and Earls (I think), Wallace and McFadden. Everything else is just speculation.

Why would Earls start 13? This game is the perfect opportunity to see how someone else fits in to the set up when the result doesn't matter.

rodders wrote:Jones is out injured for 4 months Rory.

I think the A.N. Other will be Dave Kearney if he doesn't play in the Rabo final or else Gavin Duffy. It could be Madigan but I can't believe they won't pick a specialist 15.

Ah jaysus has to be the most unlucky chap in the world. Is the shoulder one of his previous injuries or is this a new one?

Cant see any of Madigan, Kearney or McFadden been called up. I'd imagine they will all be in the rabo final squad two days previous. Only natural to have a few days off to celebrate after winning the double.

Notch wrote:Given the injury to Tommy Bowe, and Andrew Trimbles distinct lack of form, and Earls strike rate at international level; plus the return of O'Driscoll and the form of Darren Cave I'd say we should play Earls in his best position; the wing. In this squad I would have said start him at fullback with a view to moving him across to the left wing once the tests start.

I actually don't have a problem if Earls is picked ahead of Cave, it's the prospect of Cave or Spence being moved to 12 which would make me annoyed. Looking at the squad, Wallace is the only specialist 12 there and we have three outside centres. I;m not optimistic we'll see the right call made. Some centres can play 12/13 equally well. I think McFadden can and I have high hopes that Chris Farrell coming through at Ulster can. Spence is a bit too one dimensional for international centre in general and Cave, Earls is best utilised at 13 and Cave is a consummate 13.

McFadden is a shocking 13 Notch. Also I think that is a bit unfair regarding Spence. This season he has appeared very one dimensional, though I think that could be down to playing 12 most of the season, and being used as a crash ball style centre.

rodders wrote:Notch you say Cave is a consumate 13, well I would say that about O'Driscoll too.

How can you argue that one should/could move but not the other?

Personally I would rather see either play 12 than McFadden play 13.

Theres a number of different combinations there but until we try them then we won't know if they will work.

Some have been tried last season and failed (imo) like Wallace and Earls, McFadden and Earls (I think), Wallace and McFadden. Everything else is just speculation.

Rodders

BOD is nearly done. He has had a bloody brilliant career and (sadly) will probably pay for it in his later years.

He is also talented enough to play in either centre position. The reality is that, at this point in time, we have a couple of young guys playing well at 13. Earls and Cave both have potential in that position. Our potential 12's are still a few years off being viable options other than Wallace and D'arcy and they arent long term options. Therefore it is obvious that we need to bring one of Cave or Earls through. It is a big ask for any player (particularly Cave in this instance) to come in for your first run in the senior team and ask him to play in a different position. BOD is talented enough and experienced enough at international level to switch. Neither Earls or Cave is both of those things. it makes sense to move BOD>

Fair enough, I do understand and in many ways agree with that logic. I'd be very happy to see what BOD can do at 12 but like you say his time is almost up.

What I don't agree with is that it is particularly difficult to move between the centre positions or that Cave would have any difficulty adjusting to 12.

As you say the other 12 options are for the long term so for now McFadden, Earls and Cave are next in line moving forward, post D'arcy and BOD.

I have limited faith in McFadden and Earls playing together and I think Cave needs to be the brains in the Irish midfield post BOD, more than likely alongside Earls.

That said I think BOD and D'arcy will continue for sometime yet.

Wallace and Cave are the best we can get centre wise for this game and have loads of experience together. Wallace is best 12 and Cave is best 13.

Go for those two.

Like someone said above, with Fitz (when did this happen and how? I was away) and Bowe out, Earls will most likely play on the wing against the AB's (cough it's his best position also cough) so put him there or at 15.

Please.

This is what I'd be looking at:

01 Tom Court
02 Mike Sherry
03 Declan Fitzpatrick
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan
05 Dan Tuohy
06 John Muldoon
07 Chris Henry
08 Peter O'Mahony (c)
09 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Simon Zebo
12 Paddy Wallace
13 Darren Cave
14 Craig Gilroy
15 Keith Earls

16 Rory Best, 17 Paddy McAllister, 18 Ronan Loughney, 19 Donnacha Ryan, 20 Stephen Ferris, 21 Paul Marshall, 22 Nevin Spence, 23 Andrew Trimble, Reserve Gavin Duffy

I think the team can do very well and allow for rest and rotation as well as remaining competitive.

I'd like to see that team. Suspect they won't rest Best, Ryan, Trimble or Ferris but it is an exciting side.

I think that they have to rest them. Rugby is a 12 month game now and gone are the days that you pick the same XV in all matches. Players need rest and I think bringing on Best, Ferris, Trimble and Ryan from the bench would be a great boost to Ireland in the second half, get them some game time and yet have them ready for three tests against NZ.

I think having a full front row on the bench is VITAL.

Kidney probably wont agree though.

red_stag wrote:Kidney probably wont agree though.

Sad but true.

Also of note is that we STILL don't have a designated backs coach.