Scotland squad for SH tour

First topic message reminder :

Backs - Ansbro, Blair, Brown, Cusiter, De Luca, Evans,Grove, Hogg, Laidlaw, S Lamont, Scott, Visser and Weir.

Forwards - Barclay, Cross, Ford(c), Grant, Gray, Hall, Harley,Kellock, S Lawson, Murray, Rennie, Ryder, Strokosch, Vernon and Welsh

KickAndChase wrote:Who would play at 10 for Edinburgh if not Laidlaw by the way?

Leonard or Hunter, so you have to assume Laidlaw will be at 10 for another season or two. Agree with your opinion on his strengths and weaknesses, altho others may not

I think with Edinburgh signing Richie Rees at 9 Edinburgh laidlaw will be playing at 10 next year, and most of you know I am quite happy with that!

Yes in the 6N he was run over twice and had not much distance from the boot, but I think he's worked a lot on that since then and, having watched every Edinburgh game since then, can honestly say he's put in good defensive performances.

As for his kicking - he's no Priestland or Sexton but his technique has improved significantly this season and he does make good distance with his kicks now. He also has an extremely good short kicking game.

I'd like to see more of Matt Scott's kicking (used to be a 10) as he could take some of this from Laidlaw.

As for Edinbrugh's back up 10's - Harry Leonard is waiting in the wings. I think this guy is the real deal - he looks a tremendous prospect and has had some stand out games for Edinburgh this year despite only being 19.

Wow! So glad Dunbar got called up! And McInally. Can't wait for the Aus test!! 5 days to go!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think with Edinburgh signing Richie Rees at 9 Edinburgh laidlaw will be playing at 10 next year, and most of you know I am quite happy with that!

Yes in the 6N he was run over twice and had not much distance from the boot, but I think he's worked a lot on that since then and, having watched every Edinburgh game since then, can honestly say he's put in good defensive performances.

As for his kicking - he's no Priestland or Sexton but his technique has improved significantly this season and he does make good distance with his kicks now. He also has an extremely good short kicking game.

I'd like to see more of Matt Scott's kicking (used to be a 10) as he could take some of this from Laidlaw.

As for Edinbrugh's back up 10's - Harry Leonard is waiting in the wings. I think this guy is the real deal - he looks a tremendous prospect and has had some stand out games for Edinburgh this year despite only being 19.

I agree with RDW's points. I'm also convinced we'll see Laidlaw revert back to 9 in a season or two. I think we'll see Leonard take the 10 shirt at Edinburgh eventually, that process may even start this season with Leonard playing 40% of the Rabo games for example; with Weir, Leonard and Jackson vying for the shirt at international level.

With that in mind I'd like to see Jackson get some game time at 12 at Glasgow this season. He and Scott challenging each other for 12 and Dunbar and De Luca battling for 13 (amongst others) would create a nice competition for places amongst the two regions.

I think Toony's more likely to give Jackson time at 12 than Lineen too. I dont think Laidlaw's time at 10 has done him or the Scots team any harm at all. He's a cracking talent in both positions and its great to have some flexibility in the team.

nickj wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think with Edinburgh signing Richie Rees at 9 Edinburgh laidlaw will be playing at 10 next year, and most of you know I am quite happy with that!

Yes in the 6N he was run over twice and had not much distance from the boot, but I think he's worked a lot on that since then and, having watched every Edinburgh game since then, can honestly say he's put in good defensive performances.

As for his kicking - he's no Priestland or Sexton but his technique has improved significantly this season and he does make good distance with his kicks now. He also has an extremely good short kicking game.

I'd like to see more of Matt Scott's kicking (used to be a 10) as he could take some of this from Laidlaw.

As for Edinbrugh's back up 10's - Harry Leonard is waiting in the wings. I think this guy is the real deal - he looks a tremendous prospect and has had some stand out games for Edinburgh this year despite only being 19.

I agree with RDW's points. I'm also convinced we'll see Laidlaw revert back to 9 in a season or two. I think we'll see Leonard take the 10 shirt at Edinburgh eventually, that process may even start this season with Leonard playing 40% of the Rabo games for example; with Weir, Leonard and Jackson vying for the shirt at international level.

With that in mind I'd like to see Jackson get some game time at 12 at Glasgow this season. He and Scott challenging each other for 12 and Dunbar and De Luca battling for 13 (amongst others) would create a nice competition for places amongst the two regions.

I think Toony's more likely to give Jackson time at 12 than Lineen too. I dont think Laidlaw's time at 10 has done him or the Scots team any harm at all. He's a cracking talent in both positions and its great to have some flexibility in the team.

The big problem with Jackson at 12 is that he’s not a good defender, and we can’t rely on him to crash it up with slow ball. He gets run over by attackers quite frequently, and inside centre is perhaps an even more important position in defensive terms that flyhalf.

I think Lineen experimented with Jackson at 12 a few times, but it didn’t really work. Why should it? He’s a 10. Not everyone can do a Laidlaw or Matt Scott and easily swap between two totally different positions. If he picks up his form enough to be selected at flyhalf, then great. If not, then we shouldn’t shoehorn him into the team just because we want him to play. He should be pushing Weir as hard as possible for the 10 shirt as that kind of competition improves players.

Alex Dunbar is a far more natural 12, and has played very well in that position for Glasgow recently. He breaks the line, distributes well and defends well. To my mind, it is he and Scott that should be going head to head for the 12 shirt, which has been a real problem position for us. NDL, Ansbro, Grove, Bennett and even Hogg can duke it out for the 13 slot.

I've seen jackson at 12 and I was quite impressed. His defence was reasonable and his distrubution was very good.

I actually think Jackson is a pretty solid defender, very rarely have i seen him miss a tackle or get pushed off. I think it will be worth experimenting and trying him in a few games at 12. Weir is going to be the long term 10 at Glasgow and possibly Scotland but Jackson is too good a talent to not use.

With Regards to Laidlaw's defence with Scotland, would it not be sensible to change Laidlaw's positioning and when on defence swap Laidlaw and Blair. When Laidlaw played 9 his defence was always solid playing more a sweeper but at 10 he has to tackle players who are more head on and with his obvious lacking of size he will lose out to big powerful players no matter how good his technique is.
Mike Blair is a great tackler and doesn't get shrugged out against the big guys. Put him in the 10 channel on defence and have laidlaw cover 9 and i think that would help to solve some of the defensive problems we have had.

Majestic83 wrote:I actually think Jackson is a pretty solid defender, very rarely have i seen him miss a tackle or get pushed off. I think it will be worth experimenting and trying him in a few games at 12. Weir is going to be the long term 10 at Glasgow and possibly Scotland but Jackson is too good a talent to not use.

With Regards to Laidlaw's defence with Scotland, would it not be sensible to change Laidlaw's positioning and when on defence swap Laidlaw and Blair. When Laidlaw played 9 his defence was always solid playing more a sweeper but at 10 he has to tackle players who are more head on and with his obvious lacking of size he will lose out to big powerful players no matter how good his technique is.
Mike Blair is a great tackler and doesn't get shrugged out against the big guys. Put him in the 10 channel on defence and have laidlaw cover 9 and i think that would help to solve some of the defensive problems we have had.

Maj. I think we definitely need to start looking at and building that kind of flexibility into our back line once the unit becomes more settled. Robinson has indicated Scott is his starting 12 for this tour so I'd include Scott shuffling inside to gain some extra yards when a tactical kick is on.

I'd also say that Jackson is too good to be cast aside just yet. No, don't shoe horn him into a team for the sake of it, but with two pro teams we need to make the best of our meagre resources.

Majestic83 wrote:I actually think Jackson is a pretty solid defender, very rarely have i seen him miss a tackle or get pushed off. I think it will be worth experimenting and trying him in a few games at 12. Weir is going to be the long term 10 at Glasgow and possibly Scotland but Jackson is too good a talent to not use.

I remember a few times in the 2008-09 season Jackson turning out some shocking defensive displays but I suppose he has bulked up slightly since then. That was still at the time when they switch Bernie and Parks in defence so Parks could return kicks. I would still be willing to see Jackson tried in the centres but we really need Dunbar to live up to the hype or hope that Toonie doesn't go with a Morrison-Lamont 'centre' pairing. Jackson probably would have fallen to third choice stand off at Glasgow behind Weir and Wight, were there not at least a small amount of favouritism doing the rounds in Scottish rugby.

The idea of having Blair defend the 10 channel is a phenomenally good one, actually. Hopefully he'll stop getting injured trying to make try saving tackles on the line then too (which I am very pleased about from a commitment perspective but not an injury one!)

Unlike Parks, I really wouldn't say it would be worth the effort to have such a defensive re-shuffle for Laidlaw - I really don't see it as that big a deal.

I don't think it would take much of a re-shuffle, Laidlaw is used to defending the 9 channel and blair would just move out 1. It wouldn't effect the defensive structure of the rest of the team, just two players. Teams have seen that Laidlaw has a weakness against big players running at him and teams will target him more and more so something will need to be planned to prevent this happening.
They do seem to swap about roles fairly regularly on attack when playing at Edinburgh so would be easily enough to implement on defence too.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Unlike Parks, I really wouldn't say it would be worth the effort to have such a defensive re-shuffle for Laidlaw - I really don't see it as that big a deal.

Neither did Cuthbert...

So what happens when Blair goes off for Cusiter on 60 minutes?

Well it wouldn't make much difference if Laidlaw had been ran over a few times and leaked tries in the 60 mins before that happened but you wouldn't really need to change the structure with Cusiter as he is an outstanding tackler and possibly even better than Blair so i wouldn't have any problems slotting him in to that position.
Hopefully though that is something that the new coaches will bring with them and teach Robinson not to make subs just for the sake of it especially when players are playing well.

I'm sorry I just see absolutely no point in it and would bet my right arm that Andy Robinson thinks the same way and we won't see Blair swap for Laidlaw in defence - ever!

Everyone harks on about these two tackles in the 6N but remember these games were some of Laidlaws first EVER internationals, never mind his first season as a stand off at pro level.

I'm positive he's learned his lesson from that - and his performances in the big games of the HK showed that

It wasn't anything to do with Laidlaws experience or lack of experience at 10, it was purely down to his lack of size and being steam rolled by two very big players. At Edinburgh last few games of the seasons other teams were starting to target him in this way and Blair and Laidlaw were swapping then and it worked.

Majestic83 wrote:it was purely down to his lack of size

You saying Blair is a beast like?

They are both small guys and it is all about technique - Blair is so good because he gets them round the ankles the old fashioned way. Laidlaw went high twice and was binned twice - he will have learned from that.

He is not a beast but Blair is a fair bit bigger than Laidlaw, Blair is probably just short of 6ft where as Laidlaw is around the 5ft 7 mark so there is a quite a difference.

5ft 9 according to the official stats, and only 6kg lighter than Blair.

Small, yes, but to say Blair is much stronger is a bit of a long shot TBH.

As I said - it's all about technique. Blair has superb technique and Laidlaw has learned the hard way that he needs to improve his, which I think he does.

As I said though - I'd be extremely surprised if it ever happened because I really don't think it's that big an issue!

There is no chance Laidlaw is 5ft 9, I'm 5ft 9 and Greeg is a couple inches shorter than me, Blair is also about a stone and half heavier.
Laidlaws technique at tackling is fine in general and make the majority of his tackles but it is the head on ones that are the problem.

I wouldn't dismiss the change happening outright especially with the new coaches coming on board and remember matt taylor has had to work the reds defensive plan around a player who is a defender 10 times worse than laidlaw so i reckon he will be able to make adjustments.

OK RDW. The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding...

We'll find out pretty soon if Laidlaw has learned from his mistakes, because there are few rather large centres who will be testing him out on this tour.

Pat McCabe and /or Anthony Faingaa both take some stopping, as do Seremaia Bai and Seilala Mapusua.

If Laidlaw does well swapping him and Blair just becomes an option, but until he proves it its an option I hope they look at IMO.

From SRU websh!te:

DUO CALLED UP TO SCOTLAND SQUAD
Thursday, 31 May 2012

Two players are being called into the Scotland squad in Australia preparing for their three Test matches in the South Pacific next month.

Stuart McInally, the 21-year-old Edinburgh Rugby back-row forward, will fly out from the UK later today to join the tourists in time for their arrival in Newcastle, New South Wales on Saturday. The city in the Hunter Valley region will host Tuesday’s Test match against the Wallabies.

Meanwhile, Alex Dunbar, the 22-year-old Glasgow Warriors centre who ended the season so strongly, will join up with the party in Sydney tomorrow. Dunbar has been visiting family in Tasmania, therefore is already acclimatised to Australian conditions.

Scotland head coach Andy Robinson explained: “We’ve called up Stuart as a precaution given a hand injury that John Barclay sustained in training yesterday. John should be available for selection for the Test but we felt it better to ensure we have sufficient back-row options.

“Alex will meet up with the squad tomorrow. We’ve gone for him as we are still liaising with the IRB, French Federation and Castres to have Max Evans join us as soon as possible.”

Castres are involved in the Top 14 semi-finals this weekend with the IRB’s June Test window, which is covered off in their international player release regulations, beginning next weekend.

McInally, who has captained Scotland at under-17, under-18 and under-20 levels, as well as winning Scotland 7s and Scotland A honours, has recovered from the hamstring injury which forced him to miss Edinburgh Rugby’s Heineken Cup semi-final against Ulster.

Dunbar, a product of Scotland under-20 and Scotland 7s, played his club rugby for Annan and Selkirk and, alongside Nick De Luca, becomes the second Lockerbie Academy former pupil to join the tour squad.

So they're worried about Barclay. Perhaps it's mean but I really wouldn't be upset if big Stu did a shift at 8 instead of him.

Calling up Dunbar is wonderful but strange if the reason is that they've just noticed Max is still in France about to line up against Toulouse. Perhaps they could just have looked at the fixture sheet and seen that one coming?

But still. Two players who should have been in the squad in the first place.

Here's hoping that they get on the paddock.

Much as I usually hate to plug threads I've created - this is good news:
https://www.606v2.com/t30085-scotland-in-decent-players-call-up-shocker

Ah George we're way ahead of you - believe or not but we've already covered that topic this morning on this thread!

We've just got so many things to talk about it all get lost in the mass of posts....

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ah George we're way ahead of you - believe or not but we've already covered that topic this morning on this thread!

We've just got so many things to talk about it all get lost in the mass of posts....

RDW:

1. Doh.

2. I have no problem with you taking down that thread then.

Merged it into this one - didn't want all your good work to go to waste!

The thing to remember about Laidlaw's tackling technique is that he is a great tackler when playing at 9 where his lack of stature is actually an advantage in many situations. eg. he gets down easily to take the ankles of the oppo no.8 I remember an Edinburgh game away at Munster when Laidlaw was cutting down almost everything in a red shirt. Almost stopped Doug Howlett scoring with an amazing piece of corner flag defending.

However when playing at 10 he is required to make front on tackles and this where his lack of weight and size is an issue.

i cant imagine that Blair is anything but marginally better in this role as he isnt the size of Phillips or Murray.
With Blair moving to the dizzying heights of Pro 2 rugby with Brive next season i hope that Laidlaw makes the move back to 9 sooner rather than later.

Does anyone know when the team's announced?

Saturday night in Aus, so mid morning here ish

Also it looks like we're on Sky Sports 1 at 10am? Is that true?

Is that on Tuesday?

I think so

Aye! Queeny can wait a while for her celebrations - I'll be watching the rugby!

Thank goodness its being shown and on a channel that most, if not all, pubs with a telly have. Makes it nice and simple. Plus its a holiday

Anyone keen for getting up (or staying up) for the 3am kickoffs against the Islanders?? (if they find someone to show it...)

I stayed up for the Romania game in the world cup at half 2 am or something - definitely regretted it after so much stress!

I would if it was on TV

Even if they just got Alba to re-run at at 10am or something....

I managed the Romania game but only cos it was my stag. I was in some castle near Kirkcudbright, absolutely f**ked and had just survived a fight involving some of the antique family weapons...

Sounds like a Chris Brookmyre book! Did you also eat human? (That reference will make absolutely no sense to anyone unless they've read the book!)

No thank goodness, we managed to stay off the miami soap flakes, but my doctor pal did end up in bed with the stripper, so he probably ate something though possibly not human. But that's completely off topic.

That's the kind of topic we all want to hear about!

Should probably set a good example as a MOD and not ask you to elaborate though....

Absolutely

I managed the Romania game and somewhat wish I hadn't.

Fiji & Samoa ... go out for the night, come home and watch the match with kebab in hand. Sorted.

Actually I will be in the States which makes it just a late night kick off for me ..

I'll watch all the games if they're on.

Looks like the Australia game is the best prospect, and on a public holiday as well. Always knew the royal family would come good eventually!

Now to select an Edinburgh venue for breakfast, a couple of pints and hopefully (cough) a stirring victory for Robinson's men.

I feel strangely optimistic about the Australian game.
Now just need to cajole my friend who has SKY to open his doors for some early morning viewing...

What I expect to see tomorrow when Robbo announces the team for the Aus game

1 Welsh
2 Ford
3 Murray
4 Gray
5 Kellock
6 Strokosch
7 Rennie
8 Vernon

9 Blair
10 Laidlaw
11 Lamont
12 Scott
13 De Luca
14 Ansbro
15 Hogg

16 Lawson
17 Cross
18 Ryder
19 Barclay
20 Cusiter
21 Weir
22 Grove

Team announced at 9am....

Hogg, ansbro, de Luca, Scott, Lamont, Laidlaw, Blair, grant, ford, Murray, kellock, gray, stokes, Rennie, Barclay

Welsh, Lawson, Ryder, Vernon, cusiter, weir, Brown.

What's cross done??