Scotland squad for SH tour

First topic message reminder :

Backs - Ansbro, Blair, Brown, Cusiter, De Luca, Evans,Grove, Hogg, Laidlaw, S Lamont, Scott, Visser and Weir.

Forwards - Barclay, Cross, Ford(c), Grant, Gray, Hall, Harley,Kellock, S Lawson, Murray, Rennie, Ryder, Strokosch, Vernon and Welsh

Mark Bennett's looking good against Australia in the u20s.

123456789 wrote:Mark Bennett's looking good against Australia in the u20s.

123, he must be about the only one of our lads who is then! 9 tries to 2 in the end???!!

George Carlin wrote:

123456789 wrote:Mark Bennett's looking good against Australia in the u20s.

123, he must be about the only one of our lads who is then! 9 tries to 2 in the end???!!

The hooker, right winger, fly-half and Bennett were good as well as the full-back who showed bits of good play the rest are pretty average although skills wise they weren't too far away it was just a case of they were much more physical and better coached.

And apparently Barclay at 8 is an effort to control the breakdown which makes sense because we have a strong, attacking backline and so if we can control the ball then we might be in luck.

123456789 wrote:Mark Bennett's looking good against Australia in the u20s.

Just watched the game. Are you serious??

Scotland were a total joke, from start to finish. Bennett was culpable for at least two tries, and completely dominated by his opposite number in every respect. Yes, nice break for the Farndale try, but what about defensive awareness, positioning and most of all TACKLING!! Of course its harsh to compare because Bennett, Farndale etc had very little ball, but without the ball they were completely awful.

No Scotland player shone at all. Collectively they were completely dominated. The Australians could have scored 100 had the ref not felt sorry for us. We had no defensive shape, no physicality, body positions were dreadful, no counter-rucking.

I watched highlights of England and Ireland yesterday. The next generation is not looking good for us. Ireland in particular were everything we were not. Physical, determined, organised and each player took responsibility for taking care of his man.

Hopefully the big boys will be able to cheer me up!



My only hope is that our players were food poisoned, jet lagged or simply just had the worst day at the office they've ever had.

To be honest he appeared good in what I saw, I did lose concentration when it appeared Scotland has very little future, there were good flashes though.

I see its pishing down - not the best for our lightweight handling team!

One good flash really, and it was a nice pass from Leonard and a nice break and pass. What would be fair to say is that were he playing for the other side, he'd look much better, but it's his defence and tackling that immediately worry me. He was marking the invisible man several times and badly caught out.

The real issues though stemmed in the forward. We let the Aussies have momentum and front foot ball at will. Poor physicality and extremely poor body positions (which is annoying because that can be coached).

Fingers crossed for the big game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I see its pishing down - not the best for our lightweight handling team!

I know. They keep saying how much the weather favours the Scots, but I don't see it like that at all. Almost worth switching Laidlaw and Weir now!!

I can see this being a rubbish game - the weather is awful!

Why the hell we trying offloads in this weather??

GET IN!!!!!!!

Yeeeeeeeessssss!!!!!!!

I must say, Barclay was colossal today. All credit to Robinson and Barclay for that. I didn't like the selection, and when I saw the conditions, I liked it even less, but in fact it worked a treat and our back row was fantastic.

Strokosch was huge, my MOTM. Also thought it was Murray's best game for a very long time, both at the scrum but also in the loose. Pleased for Hogg and Laidlaw as well. Huge learning curve playing a game like that, and they came through very well, despite a couple of scewed kicks (forgivable in those conditions).

On the flip side, the Aussies were terrible. I thought we were pretty brainless in the first half, failing to take points when on offer, but the Aussies took stupidity to the next level. Loved the fact that the crowd bullied them into kicking to touch rather than taking the 3 points to put them in front. Had they done that twice and gone 6 in front, they'd have won. Really poor captaincy and leadership from Pocock. Enough sunshine gets blown up his ass, but on this occasion his captaincy was well below par.

So what should the team be for Fiji?

I must say though, we were pretty brainless with our repeated attempts to clear from the 22, when the wind was stopping the ball going very far, and the lineout had gone to pot. Shouldve held onto it and tried to force/run our way up field. If wed kept it tight, worst that could happen is a knock on, and we had the better of the scrum. Just seemed like we were putting needless pressure on ourselves with the kicks for touch

Apparently Rossco made 24 tackles and missed none.

I'm going to take back some of the things I said about Barcs at 8, he had a stormer today, but still I think he is just keeping that slot warm for Dozer Denton's return.

Murray was fantastic and Strokosch was immense.

Really happy with how the backs fronted up in the tackle though especially in that long period in the 2nd half when we were under all sorts of pessure. They played really damn well,

Cusiter was superb as well, I thought Weir should have come on around the 65th minute. He can kick further and tackle better but Laidlaw didn't do too badly did he? Visser, Hogg, Brown, Scott, Laidlaw, Weir, Ansbro, Cusiter, Blair etc. have got to build on this and live up to their potential.

Not a bad start - Scotland had little possession and gained few yards, but a win is a win, especially in those difficult conditions. Great final scrummages by Scotland at the death.

For me this is cool, technology is a wonderful thing:
I watched the first half at home over breakfast. Then I drove to work and streamed the broadcast to my phone. Never tried that before. I didn't watch the screen as I drove, but did listen to the commentators on the way. I sat in the car park for the last 5 minutes of the match and saw the end. I think I have finally made it to the new millenium.

Incredible win. I think that was strokosh and Murrays last chance to show their worth and they were Herculean today! Motm split between stokes, Murray and Barclay imo.

Credit where credits due - we all had doubts about Barclay at 8 (and I still do long term) but he was incredible today.

Only down side - we didn't get to see what our exciting backline could do! De Luca didn't touch the ball!

Barcs at 8 worked today because he was operating as a second openside in conditions where mistakes were abundant. I’m not sure we’d have the same success in the heat against Samoa and Fiji. Vernon may be better suited to the dry conditions, but for the next game I’d keep the back three as is. They were outstanding today. Murray was back to his best, Grant held his own. The workrate of the players was phenomenal. Even Kellock had a good game. They’re going to need the week and a half break to recover from that game. Not sure how many of the Aus team will make the full 80 at the weekend. Will make for an interesting game.

Bit of credit to Robbo now, ye Scottish fans?

Well done Scotland. You have set the bar high, with the 1st NH win down there this time. Wales will be up against it now. Deans will be seething after that one.

Shoite game. Dreadful conditions. But a game that Scotland wanted more. They tackled like demons. Brilliant win.

P.S. Rennie is an animal.

Gibson wrote:Bit of credit to Robbo now, ye Scottish fans?

Not from me

To go into the game ( before he knew what the conditions were) with the plan to kick for touch all game when Scotland have a light fast and skillfull backline is wrong. The gameplan should have been to move the ball around the park and to be unpredictable in the Edinburgh style

Scotland will not progress while Robinson is there.

Scotland won despite him not because of him - although he clearly is learning

http://www.twitvid.com/WS6LG

Hilarious.

TJ,
He played the conditions. That's why ye won. Throwing the ball(a slippy, soapy - pill) around in that weather, would have been sheer folly.

Lets see how they go in sunshine v Fiji and Samoa.

When does McVisser the Try-machine qualify? August I think? He will make a huge differ.

Gibson wrote:TJ,
He played the conditions. That's why ye won. Throwing the ball(a slippy, soapy - pill) around in that weather, would have been sheer folly.

Lets see how they go in sunshine v Fiji and Samoa.

When does McVisser the Try-machine qualify? August I think? He will make a huge differ.

He set out to play a kicking territorial game before he knew what the conditions were. Of course a wide game was not on in those conditions but if it had been sunny he still wanted them to play 10 man kick and chase - a waste of the most creative backs I can ever remeber Scotland having

Visser qualifies tuesday

TJ wrote:

Gibson wrote:TJ,
He played the conditions. That's why ye won. Throwing the ball(a slippy, soapy - pill) around in that weather, would have been sheer folly.

Lets see how they go in sunshine v Fiji and Samoa.

When does McVisser the Try-machine qualify? August I think? He will make a huge differ.

He set out to play a kicking territorial game before he knew what the conditions were. Of course a wide game was not on in those conditions but if it had been sunny he still wanted them to play 10 man kick and chase - a waste of the most creative backs I can ever remeber Scotland having

Visser qualifies tuesday

I am sorry but what do you base that statment on?

During the six nations Scotland ran the ball from everywhere.

I am sorry but the criticism on andy Robinson is getting a little ridiculous, first he is criticised for his selections which I can understand as we all have opinions about players that should have been selected, but now you criticise a coach for an intended plan you have no proof of, based on a recent history that shows scotland runs with ball in hand, albeit needing to work on finishing.

I'm confused too - how do you know he set out to do a kicking 10 man game?? That team suggests anything but!

Date Tourn Rnd Match Score Tries Pnts Venue Adv
Sat, 14 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Fiji 23-10 2:1 4-0 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 21 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Aus 9-8 0:1 4-1 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 28 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Arg 6-9 0:0 1-4 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 12 Jun 2010 ST 1 Sco v Arg 24-16 0:2 4-0 Tucuman A
Sat, 19 Jun 2010 ST 2 Sco v Arg 13-9 1:0 4-1 Mar del Plata A
Sat, 13 Nov 2010 AI,GS 2 Sco v NZ 3-49 0:7 0-5 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 20 Nov 2010 AI Sco v SA 21-17 0:1 4-1 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 27 Nov 2010 AI Sco v Sam 19-16 1:1 4-1 Aberdeen H
Sun, 25 Sep 2011 WC Pool B Sco v Arg 12-13 0:1 1-4 Westpac Trust, Wellington N
Tue, 05 Jun 2012 ST Sco v Aus 9-6 0:0 4-1 Newcastle A

P10 W7 L3

We won by the way and if we tried to play any differently we would have lost.

[quote="Scot Abroad"]Date Tourn Rnd Match Score Tries Pnts Venue Adv
Sat, 14 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Fiji 23-10 2:1 4-0 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 21 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Aus 9-8 0:1 4-1 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 28 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Arg 6-9 0:0 1-4 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 12 Jun 2010 ST 1 Sco v Arg 24-16 0:2 4-0 Tucuman A
Sat, 19 Jun 2010 ST 2 Sco v Arg 13-9 1:0 4-1 Mar del Plata A
Sat, 13 Nov 2010 AI,GS 2 Sco v NZ 3-49 0:7 0-5 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 20 Nov 2010 AI Sco v SA 21-17 0:1 4-1 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 27 Nov 2010 AI Sco v Sam 19-16 1:1 4-1 Aberdeen H
Sun, 25 Sep 2011 WC Pool B Sco v Arg 12-13 0:1 1-4 Westpac Trust, Wellington N
Tue, 05 Jun 2012 ST Sco v Aus 9-6 0:0 4-1 Newcastle A

P10 W7
[/q

Pretty good stats if you take out the ones that count - 6n and world cup!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Scot Abroad wrote:Date Tourn Rnd Match Score Tries Pnts Venue Adv
Sat, 14 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Fiji 23-10 2:1 4-0 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 21 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Aus 9-8 0:1 4-1 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 28 Nov 2009 AI Sco v Arg 6-9 0:0 1-4 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 12 Jun 2010 ST 1 Sco v Arg 24-16 0:2 4-0 Tucuman A
Sat, 19 Jun 2010 ST 2 Sco v Arg 13-9 1:0 4-1 Mar del Plata A
Sat, 13 Nov 2010 AI,GS 2 Sco v NZ 3-49 0:7 0-5 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 20 Nov 2010 AI Sco v SA 21-17 0:1 4-1 Murrayfield, Edinburgh H
Sat, 27 Nov 2010 AI Sco v Sam 19-16 1:1 4-1 Aberdeen H
Sun, 25 Sep 2011 WC Pool B Sco v Arg 12-13 0:1 1-4 Westpac Trust, Wellington N
Tue, 05 Jun 2012 ST Sco v Aus 9-6 0:0 4-1 Newcastle A

P10 W7

Pretty good stats if you take out the ones that count - 6n and world cup!

Those are just the warm up matches for the main events, summer and autumn tours!

biltongbek wrote:

TJ wrote:

Gibson wrote:TJ,
He played the conditions. That's why ye won. Throwing the ball(a slippy, soapy - pill) around in that weather, would have been sheer folly.

Lets see how they go in sunshine v Fiji and Samoa.

When does McVisser the Try-machine qualify? August I think? He will make a huge differ.

He set out to play a kicking territorial game before he knew what the conditions were. Of course a wide game was not on in those conditions but if it had been sunny he still wanted them to play 10 man kick and chase - a waste of the most creative backs I can ever remeber Scotland having

Visser qualifies tuesday

I am sorry but what do you base that statment on?

He doesnt have a basis at all......picks up a few nuggets of selections issues mostly said at the time by other posters on here and chucks that against the coachs whole tenure.

AR selected a side that always plays 15 man rugby, anyone with a modicum of rugby knowledge could see that... Hogg, Brown, Ansbro, Laidlaw, Cus, Blair Scott all running creative backs.......... and a pack that was lightweight and selected for mobility

And you are right we played attacking creative rugby in the 6Ns, not as TJ tries to make out, yes we havent had the results but it was to do with our own errors (dropping the ball so many times with the tryline gaping)

The results apart from the 6Ns havent been too bad under AR

The win against Australia has bought Robinson time, nothing more. He made such a hash of the RWC and 6N by picking the wrong players. This win just goes to show that the likes of Scott, Laidlaw etc all were ready in February.

Robbo has made a lot of mistakes, this win helps the pain but hasn't made me forget.

biltongbek wrote:

He set out to play a kicking territorial game before he knew what the conditions were. Of course a wide game was not on in those conditions but if it had been sunny he still wanted them to play 10 man kick and chase - a waste of the most creative backs I can ever remeber Scotland having


I am sorry but what do you base that statment on?

I am only talking about this game and I base it on Robinson interview yesterday. where he said that was his tactic.

If you want to go back to the 6N look at the selection against England Parks, slamont in centre, no place for laidlaw, hogg, scott, etc etc

TJ wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

He set out to play a kicking territorial game before he knew what the conditions were. Of course a wide game was not on in those conditions but if it had been sunny he still wanted them to play 10 man kick and chase - a waste of the most creative backs I can ever remeber Scotland having


I am sorry but what do you base that statment on?

I am only talking about this game and I base it on Robinson interview yesterday. where he said that was his tactic.

If you want to go back to the 6N look at the selection against England Parks, slamont in centre, no place for laidlaw, hogg, scott, etc etc

No one is disagreeing with that, of course he made the wrong selections however he chose the right tactics for this game. There's no point in using a creative backline for the sake of it - it didn't help the Wallabies did it? If he'd got them to run it from everywhere and they'd spilled the ball all over the place then you'd have slated him anyway. If Scotland beat New Zealand by 50 points ( I know it won't happen but hypothetically) in November you will still slate.

I doubt Fiji will be much of a problem they're in total disarray at the moment surely it's an ideal time to use Harley, Ryder and Weir.
My team:
1. Welsh
2. Ford
3. Cross
4. Ryder
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Rennie
8. Vernon
9. Cusiter
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Grove
14. Brown
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. Lawson
18. Kellock
19. Barclay
20. Laidlaw
21. Evans
22. Lamont

This will give the likes of Strockosch, Kellock, Blair and Lamont to rest before the Samoa game also the backline is very similar to the one that played England "A" so it should work.

There's not a chance in hell he's gonna make that many changes - there's no way he'll drop any of the starting 8 in the pack imo. He's always shown loyalty and can see him making no changes - whether that is the correct Selection or not. That pack produced one of the best performances for a long time for Scotland and they'll be on such a high for the next game.

Also, they don't need rested - it's 10 days away.

Finally - not a lot of point in bringing in visser if you swap his Edinburgh half backs (who get the best out of him)for the glasgow ones.

I'd like to see a lot of that team you've mentioned - but not after what's happened today.

Artful_Dodger wrote:http://www.twitvid.com/WS6LG

Hilarious.

Mate, thats the best! Thanks!

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's not a chance in hell he's gonna make that many changes - there's no way he'll drop any of the starting 8 in the pack imo. He's always shown loyalty and can see him making no changes - whether that is the correct Selection or not. That pack produced one of the best performances for a long time for Scotland and they'll be on such a high for the next game.

Also, they don't need rested - it's 10 days away.

Finally - not a lot of point in bringing in visser if you swap his Edinburgh half backs (who get the best out of him)for the glasgow ones.

I'd like to see a lot of that team you've mentioned - but not after what's happened today.

Fully see your point mate. Dont change a winning team, yada yada. BUT. Imagine a fresh and gagging-to-go Visser, up against the Aussies in the Sun? Man. Id back him for one try. At least.

He has been dreaming of this for years now.

Edit: Ye have Fiji & Samoa left to play. Not another crack at Oz. Play Visser in both. No argument.

Visser will play and I want to see weir get some game time.

I'd definitely start Visser. Swap him for S Lamont who came off injured, otherwise keep the same, perhaps look to use Welsh and Ryder from the bench depending on how things go. Both deserve a chance and could easily have started today on form.

Other than bringing in Visser, I wouldn't change the backs. Time to give these combinations a chance. We saw a strong defensive performance today, hopefully against Fiji they'll have some ball to show what they can do in attack.

Based on what we see against Fiji, we can then approach Samoa. Might be a good game to look at Harley. There will be plenty big carriers needing chopping down and he should get a start this tour. Strokosch was magnificent today, and should get a chance to carry that form into the Fiji game, but these are summer tours and Harley went on this tour very much on merit, so should get some action. Small changes is the key.

I just think a game against Fiji is one where we should try new combinations rather than throw them together if there are injuries in the six nations or autumn internationals.

Evans will be joining the squad shortly and Lamont should return from the rib knock. The question would be do we start Visser or have him come on as an impact sub. He'd certainly make a difference off the bench. That may be a better introduction to international rugby with the intention of him starting the Samoa game. I wouldn't change the pack, but I'd be inclined to use the subs. Give Ryder and Vernon a half each. Start the same half backs and centre partnerships. Cusiter and Weir should get some game time and have Evans on the bench to cover wing and centre.

Cusiter was superb today and looked close to his best, as was Barclay and Murray and Kellock. With Beattie looking good for the BaaBaas and Robinson finally picking the right players things are looking good for next year. It looks like we'll have real competition for each position except hooker where Ford's our out and out best.

123456789 wrote:I just think a game against Fiji is one where we should try new combinations rather than throw them together if there are injuries in the six nations or autumn internationals.

But we already have new combinations. Grant bedding in at loosehead in the front row. Laidlaw at 10 with Scott at 12, and I'd suggest Visser coming into the back three for Fiji, playing with Stuart Hogg, another new comer to the international arena. Small changes is how to do things, giving people a chance to settle in. I'd then look to use Harley against Samoa with perhaps Welsh getting a start.

I hope Robinson doesn't shuffle too much. That risks losing continuity. Those guys will have learnt a massive amount today, and the key is now to capitalise, and let the young new players bed in.

I said before the tour that the main key to this summer was to get Matt Scott sorted in the 12 jersey. I thought today was a massive step in the right direction. Let's hope that he gets to play between Laidlaw and NDL against Fiji, to really see the lad with some attacking ball in hopefully better conditions.

123456789 wrote:Cusiter was superb today and looked close to his best, as was Barclay and Murray and Kellock. With Beattie looking good for the BaaBaas and Robinson finally picking the right players things are looking good for next year. It looks like we'll have real competition for each position except hooker where Ford's our out and out best.

Fully agree on Cusiter, Barclay and Murray (although Strokosch was my MOTM today), but don't think Kellock goes into that bracket. He was busy and worked hard, but I still don't feel he punches his weight around the ruck and carrying the ball. Compared to how effective Richie Gray consistently was, I just think Kellock is a little bit pedestrian. Great work rate though, really put his soul into his performance. But, with Hamilton first choice, and Gilchrist, Ryder and MacKenzie coming through, plus Campbell and young Gray, giving 100% and shouting "come on lads" for 80 minutes doesn't complete cut it.

Very harsh after today I know, but the two best locks on the pitch were Gray and Sharpe, despite Kellock playing out of his skin.

FES, you talk a lot of sense big man.

Kellock tackled everything today and covered a lot of ground defensively as well. He won't be around much longer but a player as supportive as him is important in this period for Scotland. I thought it was one of his better games for a while and I agree about Strockosch; the amount of strong back rowers we have now is fantastic - Strockosch, Brown, Harley, Rennie, Barclay, Fusaro, MacInally, Denton, Wilson, Vernon, Grant, Beattie and that's not including Taylor or Hogg who are both starters in the Aviva. There are a number of those who could push for lions places IMO.