England V West Indies, Lords, 1st Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

Just a little under 15 hours now until the English Test Summer gets underway with the first of three tests against the lowly West Indies. This is seen as little more than a tune up for England, with the bigger obstacle of South Africa to come later in the summer.

Indeed, England are seen as overwhelming favourites for the series despite a disappointing Winter campaign in the UAE and Sri Lanka which saw them just about hold on to their World no.1 ranking. In the red corner, the West Indies are coming over to England on the back of a 2-0 home defeat to the Australians but their captain Darren Sammy remains hopeful of an upset.

Teams

England 1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Graeme Swann, 11 James Anderson

West Indies 1 Adrian Barath, 2 Kieran Powell, 3 Kirk Edwards, 4 Darren Bravo, 5 Shivnarine Chanderpaul, 6 Marlon Samuels, 7 Denesh Ramdin (wk), 8 Darren Sammy (capt), 9 Kemar Roach, 10 Ravi Rampaul, 11 Fidel Edwards

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Enjoy!

[msp83]

Agree with a lot of what you have said MFC.
The pitch, Swann, Anderson, most things about WI batting, and parts about Shiv.

On Chanderpaul and his batting tactics with the lower, I think I would disagree. I'd rather have him play more shots than he mostly does. After all, he had ones smashed the Australians around for a mighty fine tet hundred of just 69 balls, and has played some fine knocks in ODIs as well.
But one thing I've realized through many a despiring moment when Chanderpaul atted with the lower order, it has eentually turned out to be good for the side. If you watched the recent Australia West Indis series, you'd have watched Chanderpaul putting on more than 70 runs with Roach, Edwards and Bishoo for the last 3 wickets. Again I remember he and Bishoo putting on a match winning last wicket half-ceentury partnership against Pakistan last year. There are many such moments. So I think there is a thought process, a kind of method to what might seem as madness/selfishness on Chanderpaul's part. Doesn't seem it has quite worked out the he wanted, and may be that last over single could have been avoided, but I don't think we can be too harsh on the man for that, considering it has worked out many times for Chanderpaul and the West Indies. VVS Laxman of India often does that, and Steve Waugh often brought the best out of lower order batters. But Waugh often took much of early strike in the partnership, and would eas the tailender into it all slowly. May be Chanders should also look to do more of that, rather than placing huge responsibility right away on them.
The Bravo runout, think entirely Shiv's mistake though.

[Shelsey93]

England are on top, because the run rate wasn't very good. I didn't think the seamers were quite at their brilliant best today - Anderson was superb for a spell and Broad for another, but neither was on the mark all day.

Chanderpaul did what Chanderpaul does. The rest did perhaps as expected - Bravo promising, Powell not, Barath aggressive, Samuels neither one nor the other. From a WI point of view they will be a tad disappointed, but at least happy in the knowledge that they aren't out of the game and probably won't be by the end of tomorrow either.

[robbo277]

Considering West Indies were only coming here to get flattened they won't be too disheartened by there efforts. They managed to craft a couple of good partnerships and if Bravo hadn't have been comically run out then it could have been a different day entirely.

After a fairly even first two sessions the last session swung the pendulum in England's favour. As Shelsey said, even when we weren't taking wickets we were bowling tight and keeping the runs down. The West Indies were never away from us and England will be very happy if we can nip this last one out early in the morning for less than 250.

They say not to judge a surface until you've seen both sides bat on it, but I think there's not much in this pitch and I fancy England to get a big score. Our batting seems to be much happier at home, and I just don't think West Indies have that match winning bowler who can put us on the back foot. The batting keeps coming and coming with this England line-up, batting all the way down to number 10. West Indies might have a good spell or a good session, but I don't think they'll be able to take 10 English wickets cheaply. The batsmen have a point to prove after a poor winter and will all want to cash in. England, as they so often have, will look to win this match in the second innings. Bat long and leave West Indies in a position from which they can't win and even have a lot of work to save the game.

[Fists of Fury]

This article from ESPNcricinfo's George Dobell sums my thoughts up exactly. An absolutely spot on assessment of Shiv.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-west-indies-2012/content/current/story/565268.html

[Shelsey93]

This article from ESPNcricinfo's George Dobell sums my thoughts up exactly. An absolutely spot on assessment of Shiv.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-west-indies-2012/content/current/story/565268.html

I think George is a little heavy on the criticism there, though on more than one occasion Shiv has been shown to manage the tail quite poorly in my opinion.

I'm not too concerned about 'exposing' Fidel - Fidel often comes in as night-watchman, where his job is to survive the last over. Trusting the tail-enders is important, as Australia showed against the West Indies.

[Fists of Fury]

Don't agree, Jack. Shiv was incredibly selfish with the Bravo run-out, he could have made that even if the throw from Prior hadn't been appalling.

Fidel is a desperately bad batsman who had been struggling terribly with Broad through the entirety of his innings. Shiv should have absorbed those next 5 balls.

I agree with everything George said, I think Shiv is very much a 'but what about my average?' man in the form of our beloved Geoffrey.

[Mad for Chelsea]

while the run out was his fault, I don't blame him for wanting to ground his bat first (I've done it myself - striker hit the ball into a gap between mid-wicket and mid-on, I ran and by the time I realised he wasn't I was too far down to get back, so I made sure I reached the crease first).

The Edwards exposure was very selfish though. He hadn't been doing it in the previous three or four overs, so doing it in the last over smacked of "stuff this, I'm making sure I don't get out tonight". The comparison with the night-watchman situation isn't right here Shelsey, as with a nightwatchman there's usually batting to come afterwards (hence the nightwatchman principle) so the loss of a tail-ender in the last over is viewed as a reasonable sacrifice. With just one wicket left, I'm not sure it is the case here.

[msp83]

Fists, did you watch the recent Australia/WI series, or the one that the WI played at home against Pakistan? In the Pak series, where WI won a test against a top side the last time, a last wicket partnership between Chanderpaul of more than 50 eventually set up the WI win. And Chanderpaul took every available single in the partnership, and Bishoo showed a great deal of responsibility batting with him.
So of course George was a touch too critical, although may be considering that was the last over, may be he could have done it a bit different.
And the larger point George makes about the inability of the WI team management as well as the cricket board, in managing players is the more important one in my view.

[Fists of Fury]

Msp, in response I will say 'read MFC's post above yours'.

Sums it up pretty well. It was brainless or incredibly selfish batting from Chanderpaul in that last over. Very poor.

But yes, you're right in that the management of this team by the WICB is shocking, along with the attitude of the likes of Gayle. They should tell Gayle to stuff it, anyway, given his horrendous attitude.

[JDizzle]

To be fair to Shiv, I remember in the Melbourne Test match that England won to go 2-1 up in the Ashes where Jonathon Trott was batting on about 140* and he kept taking singles early on in the over to expose England's tail. I imagine Bresnan and Swann can handle a bat better than anyone in the Windies lower order but Trott was doing this with Tremlett and Anderson as well, so it is not just a case of Shiv doing it; we have someone ourself. The only difference is that Trott, batting at 3, will rarely find himself with the tail and will be less experienced at managing them. Agree that the last over thing was wrong, but different players have different ways of going with the tail. The name Steve Waugh has already been brought up as someone who'd give the tail responsibility and they would thrive on it, and Shiv has got a track record of actually adding decent runs with the tail so I don't think we can be too critical really.

[Mad for Chelsea]

yeah but Trott was batting with the tail with a lead of already 300+, so it didn't matter so much

[Mad for Chelsea]

well that didn't take long

Perfect line and length from Broad, and Swann gleefully pouches the edge. Not much you can do about those as a batsman. Am I right in saying that's Broad's best ever test figures?

[Fists of Fury]

Correct again, Mfc.

[JDizzle]

Haha, nothing wrong with adding a few more runs and crushing the Aussie by even more MFC.

Well bowled Broady. A 7 fer.

[msp83]

Not sure Fists and MFC I can still agree. If you remember, Fidel had played out an entire over from Jimmy A before that, and Chanderpaul did hand over the strike to him earlier also against Broad.
And who's wicket would be more important for West Indies and England both? its Chanders, if he would have got out after refusing the single, most of the criticism would be directed the other way round.
And on the Gayle issue, we have to just stay on different pages, I have a feeling most of the views about Gayle in England have been shaped by that illfated previous tour, where the WI came in as last minute replacement for Zimbabwe, with players without a propper contract, when the IPL was going on. And of course it was an off the FTP arrangement as well, so that the WICB would cash in, while the players would be left on their own, of course if they react to all that nonsense, that has to be atitude!.

[GSC]

That was quick.

Broady on a hat trick next innings.

Potentially a hat trick with each wicket coming on a different day

[Fists of Fury]

And that wicket first ball proves why Chanderpaul was very, very poor in taking that single last night.

[Fists of Fury]

That was quick.

Broady on a hat trick next innings.

Potentially a hat trick with each wicket coming on a different day

That'd be an excellent stat, and some tremendous trivia in later years!

[Mad for Chelsea]

Nasser just said "Sammy himself is a fantastic catcher at slip". Really Nasser?

[msp83]

Not the best of starts to Shannon Gabriel's test career, will he be able to make a better contribution with the ball? Has anyone really seen him action somewhere? How is he like? Quick?

[msp83]

How are the overhead conditions? Any chances of the ball doing a bit in the air?

[msp83]

Fidel isn't bowling anything fast, hardly crossing the 130 KPH mark.

[Mad for Chelsea]

very overcast msp, so should be doing a fair bit.

[Fists of Fury]

Gabriel is meant to be a 90mph merchant, not sure of his accuracy, though.

[msp83]

Nothing much for the WI bowlers so far. Good judgement shown by the England captain so far. West Indies should to attack Strauss a bit more, although he has started well today, we all know he hasn't been in the best of touches in recent times.
If Cook and Strauss manage to get through this opening spel from Fidel and Roach, England will be set up for a huge first innings lead.

[msp83]

90 MPH? That should be good funn, even if he goes around the park a bit!!.

[Mad for Chelsea]

yeah Gabriel has a reputation as a bit of a speedster. Ball not doing much so far, but then again it doesn't always when it's completely new, need to wait for the lacquer to come off and see what happens then.

[msp83]

MFC, WI bowlers haven't swung it much as yet, have they?

[Mad for Chelsea]

nope but sometimes in England it takes the ball 7 or 8 overs to start swinging.

cricket watching bingo: commentator saying the field isn't attacking enough - check.

[msp83]

Roach in his first over itself bowled in the late 130s and early 140s. Fidel too has picked up the pace in his 2nd over, no swing though as yet, and not much seam movement either.

[Mad for Chelsea]

ball still not really doing anything out there, no swing on offer, and the pitch, while a bit quicker than yesterday, is still pretty slow (witness Strauss hitting that through extra cover off the back foot).

[gboycottnut]

I like Geoff Boycott's comment this morning on TMS that if you stop playing daft shots you should get more runs.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Ramdin struggling a bit at the moment, Lords really is a horrible place to keep wicket (I though Prior did very well again yesterday). WI not getting any control at the moment, England racing along quite nicely.

[Mad for Chelsea]

we'll get our first look at Gabriel then, and that's a cracking start, fizzing one across Cook and past his outside edge.

[JDizzle]

nope but sometimes in England it takes the ball 7 or 8 overs to start swinging.

cricket watching bingo: commentator saying the field isn't attacking enough - check.

Boycott - "We always used to play on uncovered pitches..." - check.

[Mad for Chelsea]

good grief, just WHAT on earth is KP wearing?!?!?!?!

[Fists of Fury]

The all new England beanie hats!

[Mad for Chelsea]

Cook chops one on, first blood to Roach! How the WI needed that, they've been pretty ordinary so far with the ball, will that wicket lift them?

[Shelsey93]

KP looked like he was ready to go skiing!

England hats introduced for next years February start to the cricket season

[Fists of Fury]

Sounds like the chef got out to a pretty innocuous ball there. Poor judgement.

[alfie]

'morning all

Roach getting a break just when England were threatening to race away early...sorry to see Cook go , he was looking good this morning.

Gabriel looks nippy enough , doesn't he ? Will be interesting to see how he does in this match.

Pitch looks good enough for England to get a few here - think West Indies may regret their lack of spin options later in the match because they may have a fair bit of bowling to do...

[msp83]

This pitch is not for short pitched bowling, but would be interesting if the WI bowlers could bang a few in with sense of course, without getting carried away. Gabriel and Roach are both bowling fast really, but nothing much from the pitch for them, and their decition not to go for the one spinner is proving to be a mistake by the minute.
At least Deonarine could have turned a ball or 2, Samuels doesn't really turn them at all, and he's the only spinner they have.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Trott off the mark with a typical "Trott nudge" through mid-wicket. Gabriel bowling steadily, the ball not doing anything though.

[Duty281]

Cook was a tad unlucky but England should make 450+ here. The bowling isn't too threatening and the pitch is flat. Hope Strauss gets a ton.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Sammy into the attack, but that's a lousy delivery to Trott who gleefully clips it to the square-leg fence.

[msp83]

Oh who was fielding at gully there?
Strauss has to be careful, he has got off to a decent start, he just shouldn't throw this away, there may not be many easier chances coming his way to get back his touch.

[alfie]

Having read those earlier posts about Chanderpaul and his alleged selfishness I feel compelled to defend him in the "last over" issue .

Surely it is possible to argue either way ? It is not unreasonable for the last remaining batsman to take the view that his - much more important - wicket should be protected for the last few balls of the day while the lesser player plays out time (the night watchman principle , if you like) . Of course , a sensible player will only do this if he believes his partner is capable of surviving the remaining balls...So it comes down to a judgement call .
Now obviously , in this case Chanderpaul's judgement was awry , and it probably cost West Indies a few runs - and himself another century.
But that does not automatically make him guilty of selfishness. Not in my view anyway.

By the way , didn't Broad come back well from a rather lack-lustre spell before
lunch ? He has a knack of taking a lot of wickets in clumps when he is on song (Oval 2009 , and again a few months later in SA come to mind) A bit more consistency - which may be coming - and he and Anderson really will be able to claim a place up there with the great pairings...

[Duty281]

Another 4 for Strauss, he moves to 30. Come on Strauss, don't waste this opportunity.

[msp83]

Fidel's back for a new spel.
So that's the first spel in test cricket done for Shannon Gabriel. He hasn't picked up a wicket, didn't look dangerous with every ball either, but he did look impressive enough, good pace, is tall, and on more bouncier tracks, could be a handful.

[ShankyCricket]

Strauss is looking in ominous touch

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