The Non HC Final thread - Who wants Lager when you can have BITTER?

[HERSH]

Feel free to discuss all things rugby related, apart from the HC Final.

Why I hear you ask?

Because the Competition is structured wrong and gives some teams an unfair advantage, this is my view and it won’t change until the structure is changed.

The HC is devalued as it is.

But I accept some fans will want to discuss it so I ask them to respect the F A C T that some rugby fans don't!

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Larger?

[caoimhincentre]

devalued?/
Why because there are no english teams???

[HERSH]

D'oh

See how bitter I've become Kiwi

[Biltong]

i would rather just have a whisky thanks.

[HERSH]

devalued?/
Why because there are no english teams???

No, but please respect the fact that some rugby fans don't want to hear about the HC Final this weekend.

It's structured wrong!

[caoimhincentre]

will do. Ironic though how the majority of your OP has a HC theme.

Wont mention again on the thread though

[Mickado]

Nice avatar Hersh

[HERSH]

[red_stag]

Hersh, what way would you like it structured.

[caoimhincentre]

God stag!!!

did you not see the original post.

This is NOT about the HC

[Notch]

Oh man, this thread has put such a massive smile on my face!

[maestegmafia]

Hersh, what way would you like it structured.

Probably like an English rugby version of the American baseball's world series.

[Notch]

I also love that this thread demanding we not go on about an all-Irish final has doubled the number of topics about the Final from just one topic to two right away

[HERSH]

Who's going to win the Amlin then?

[Biltong]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Most important final of the weekend is being played tonight (live on s4c), Pontypridd V Llanelli in the welsh premiership final, that is the one we should all be talking about!

[HERSH]

Most important final of the weekend is being played tonight (live on s4c), Pontypridd V Llanelli in the welsh premiership final, that is the one we should all be talking about!

That’s more like it, two real rugby teams doing battle for the pride of the shirt not the win bonus in the overseas bank account!

What times the kick off Scarlet?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Premiership play-off final: Pontypridd v Llanelli
Venue: Sardis Road
Date: Friday, 18th May
Kick-off: 19:35 BST
Coverage: Live on S4C, updates on BBC Sport website

Pontypridd:
Adam Thomas; Chris Clayton, Gavin Dacey, Dafydd Lockyer, Matthew Nuthall; Lewis K Williams, Lewis Jones;

Stuart Williams, Huw Dowden, Pat Palmer, Craig Locke, Ryan Savage, Chris Dicomidis (capt), Wayne O'Connor, Dan Godfrey.

Replacements: Rhys Downes, Gareth Wyatt, Gary Williams, Darran Harris, Jake Thomas, Cory Hill, Chris Phillips.

Llanelli:
Dan Newton; Iolo Evans, Nic Reynolds, Johnny Lewis, Jordan Williams; Owen Williams, Justin James;

Shaun Hopkins, Kirby Myhill, Aled Hopkins, Adam Powell (capt), Nathan White, Duane Eager, Nic Cudd, Craig Price.

Replacements: Rhys Thomas, Craig Hawkins, Samson Lee, Ed Price, Daniel Thomas, Joe Heatley, Bowdy Davies.

Referee: Ian Davies (Porthcawl).

[geoff999rugby]

Another English who cannot grasp the true reason no English team have made the final.

Never mind the Irish promise to give Twickers back after Saturday

[HERSH]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

Rather harsh response Bil, I think it’s a fair request for rugby fans to have somewhere to escape the plastic HC Final/Competition this weekend.

Firstly I'd like to see all teams involved having to qualify and earning the right to take part that would create a more level playing field throughout Europe.

[HERSH]

Cheers Scarlet, enjoy it

[Smirnoffpriest]

Premiership play-off final: Pontypridd v Llanelli
Venue: Sardis Road
Date: Friday, 18th May
Kick-off: 19:35 BST
Coverage: Live on S4C, updates on BBC Sport website

Pontypridd:
Adam Thomas; Chris Clayton, Gavin Dacey, Dafydd Lockyer, Matthew Nuthall; Lewis K Williams, Lewis Jones;

Stuart Williams, Huw Dowden, Pat Palmer, Craig Locke, Ryan Savage, Chris Dicomidis (capt), Wayne O'Connor, Dan Godfrey.

Replacements: Rhys Downes, Gareth Wyatt, Gary Williams, Darran Harris, Jake Thomas, Cory Hill, Chris Phillips.

Llanelli:
Dan Newton; Iolo Evans, Nic Reynolds, Johnny Lewis, Jordan Williams; Owen Williams, Justin James;

Shaun Hopkins, Kirby Myhill, Aled Hopkins, Adam Powell (capt), Nathan White, Duane Eager, Nic Cudd, Craig Price.

Replacements: Rhys Thomas, Craig Hawkins, Samson Lee, Ed Price, Daniel Thomas, Joe Heatley, Bowdy Davies.

Referee: Ian Davies (Porthcawl).

Does that mean Jordan Williams is on the wing??? Suprised Samson Lee isn't playing (though I thought he was a Quinns player) and D Thomas, though Cudd is quite good from the little bit I've seen

[Smirnoffpriest]

Feel free to discuss all things rugby related, apart from the HC Final.

Why I hear you ask?

Because the Competition is structured wrong and gives some teams an unfair advantage, this is my view and it won’t change until the structure is changed.

The HC is devalued as it is.

But I accept some fans will want to discuss it so I ask them to respect the F A C T that some rugby fans don't!

So we're not to discuss a certain tournament that Hersh has mentioned repeatedly in his OP, while he has made a sweeping statement about said 'certain tournament' that of course can't be commented on or questioned as we can't discuss the competition. It seems funny as his Avatar is a white H on a green field which bares a slight resemblance to a certain competitions logo (if only I could remember what it was).

He also tells us to discuss anything other than this tournament yet gives no topics to discuss and seems to be minimising the whole point of the Rugby Board down to 1 thread (ie discuss anything rugby related).

Interesting

[red_stag]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

Rather harsh response Bil, I think it’s a fair request for rugby fans to have somewhere to escape the plastic HC Final/Competition this weekend.

Firstly I'd like to see all teams involved having to qualify and earning the right to take part that would create a more level playing field throughout Europe.

Hersh, I tell you what. Maybe we'll say to England/France that they have to copy Ireland, Wales, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Scotland in having franchises for their international "club" games.

You can have 6 regions each and get automatic entry. Or have 7 each and you have take all 7 to the Heino if one of your boys manages to win it.

The futures in your own hands my friend.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

Rather harsh response Bil, I think it’s a fair request for rugby fans to have somewhere to escape the plastic HC Final/Competition this weekend.

Firstly I'd like to see all teams involved having to qualify and earning the right to take part that would create a more level playing field throughout Europe.

Well there's several threads on the AP final, a couple on Super Rugby, and several on the upcoming June internationals. Plus some on likely rule changes, and several of Portnoys' threads complaining about how things were better in the old days.

But anyway, my alma mater Marlborough Boys College host Christs' College in the Press Cup South Island Secondary School Cup tomorrow, hear's hoping the posh private schoolboys get a beating. Both teams scored over 50 points in their matches (vs Burnside (Christchurch) and Nayland (Nelson) respectively) last week. And my old club Renwick face a tough 2 hour drive over the Wangamoas for their match against Riwaka in the Marlborough-Nelson club championship.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

Rather harsh response Bil, I think it’s a fair request for rugby fans to have somewhere to escape the plastic HC Final/Competition this weekend.

Firstly I'd like to see all teams involved having to qualify and earning the right to take part that would create a more level playing field throughout Europe.

Hersh, I tell you what. Maybe we'll say to England/France that they have to copy Ireland, Wales, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Scotland in having franchises for their international "club" games.

You can have 6 regions each and get automatic entry. Or have 7 each and you have take all 7 to the Heino if one of your boys manages to win it.

The futures in your own hands my friend.

I mean's fairs fare - why should ENg/France be allowed to play by a different system than everyone else?

[HammerofThunor]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

Rather harsh response Bil, I think it’s a fair request for rugby fans to have somewhere to escape the plastic HC Final/Competition this weekend.

Firstly I'd like to see all teams involved having to qualify and earning the right to take part that would create a more level playing field throughout Europe.

Hersh, I tell you what. Maybe we'll say to England/France that they have to copy Ireland, Wales, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Scotland in having franchises for their international "club" games.

You can have 6 regions each and get automatic entry. Or have 7 each and you have take all 7 to the Heino if one of your boys manages to win it.

The futures in your own hands my friend.

I just gagged a little reading that. What a horrible idea! Think about Exeter. What about Exeter?!

[red_stag]

Hammer, they get to be a part of the newly formed South West Chiefs who are now based in Bristol but rotate around the other town in their region; namely Bath, Exeter and Gloucester

[Smirnoffpriest]

Gentlemen feel free to pull Hersh' statement to pieces.

He makes the statement that the HC is devalued due to the structure that is wrong.

Then he says you may not discuss it.

Go ahead and discuss ideas around if you could change the structure, how would you like it to be done.

Rather harsh response Bil, I think it’s a fair request for rugby fans to have somewhere to escape the plastic HC Final/Competition this weekend.

Firstly I'd like to see all teams involved having to qualify and earning the right to take part that would create a more level playing field throughout Europe.

Hersh, I tell you what. Maybe we'll say to England/France that they have to copy Ireland, Wales, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Scotland in having franchises for their international "club" games.

You can have 6 regions each and get automatic entry. Or have 7 each and you have take all 7 to the Heino if one of your boys manages to win it.

The futures in your own hands my friend.

I just gagged a little reading that. What a horrible idea! Think about Exeter. What about Exeter?!

They'd be your South West region with Bath, Cornish Pirates and maybe Bristol - with Jersey as a feeder club!

[HammerofThunor]

[HammerofThunor]

I'm just looking forward to the Anglo-French club competition. The international regional franchises can have their own. That way everyone is on the level

[red_stag]

You can also have the East Mids Oaks based around Nottingham, Leicester and Northampton.

Leeds-Manchester can be another.

The Greater London is surely large enough to have two-three.

[red_stag]

I'm just looking forward to the Anglo-French club competition. The international regional franchises can have their own. That way everyone is on the level

In dealings with the FFR there can be no winner.

[HammerofThunor]

You can also have the East Mids Oaks based around Nottingham, Leicester and Northampton.

Leeds-Manchester can be another.

The Greater London is surely large enough to have two-three.

Please stop. There some blood in that one.

[HERSH]

Regional rugby doesn't work so why would England's great clubs want to go down that path?

[Artful_Dodger]

Regional rugby doesn't work

No but provincial rugby does

Seems your not so serious about restructuring the HC at all.

[HERSH]

But England doesn't really have provinces does it.

plus most Jeff clubs still have bigger attendances.

[caoimhincentre]

there is nothing wrong with the english sturcture. teams simply are not good enough at the moment.

that will change no doubt. no team or country will stay at the top forever

[rodders]

Regional rugby doesn't work so why would England's great clubs want to go down that path?

There are no great English clubs. The last great English club was probably Dallagio's HEC winning Wasps side.

Theres plenty of average English cubs who might benefit from going down that path though.

[HERSH]

Define Greatness?

Surely winning the unbalanced, poorly structured HC doesn’t make a side great?

[Smirnoffpriest]

Define Greatness?

Surely winning the unbalanced, poorly structured HC doesn’t make a side great?

Lots of people seem to like the HEC as it is - a lot of the 're-structuring' calls seem to be to make it easier for English teams and harder for Irish teams.

Some would say that doing that would make it unbalanced...

[red_stag]

Ah but Hersh if anyone can make it work its the English. I would say that it only doesn't work in Wales. That aside I dont see an issue.

The Crusaders (formerly the Canterbury Crusaders) are a New Zealand professional franchise rugby union team based in Christchurch that competes in the Super Rugby competition. They are the most successful team in Super Rugby history with seven titles (1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2005, 2006 and 2008). The franchise represents the Buller, Canterbury, Mid-Canterbury, South Canterbury, Tasman and West Coast provincial Rugby Unions. Their main home ground is AMI Stadium, formerly known as Jade Stadium and before that, Lancaster Park.

Looks like a regional set up working to me.

[Artful_Dodger]

So rather than restructuring in any shape or form themselves its a case of England saying 'why cant you make the HC easy for us to win '

Sad times.

[red_stag]

You can also have the East Mids Oaks based around Nottingham, Leicester and Northampton.

Leeds-Manchester can be another.

The Greater London is surely large enough to have two-three.

Please stop. There some blood in that one.

Hammer, you haven't even heard about the new Coventry Wasps RFC.

[HERSH]

and French! Artful.

But Stag it's their national sport, they would turn up to watch a pub game if it was the only game being played that weekend, Rugby Union in England isn't.

[rodders]

Define Greatness?

Surely winning the unbalanced, poorly structured HC doesn’t make a side great?

For me a great side proves themselves domestically and against the best in Europe.

Toulouse, the Leicester Tigers 2002/3 side, Dallagios Wasps, Munster pre 09, Leinster post 09 , Clermont.

There are no English clubs of this calibre right now hence they are not in the final.

The bar is being raised every year so rather than making excuses maybe these great English clubs should start stepping up to the challenge laid down by the likes of Leinster and Clermont.

[Smirnoffpriest]

and French! Artful.

But Stag it's their national sport, they would turn up to watch a pub game if it was the only game being played that weekend, Rugby Union in England isn't.

You could say the same about Wales - indeed many fans from North and Mid Wales and some towns/villages in South Wales do turn up to watch their pub teams or their local Div 2/3 sides play.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Does that mean Jordan Williams is on the wing??? Suprised Samson Lee isn't playing (though I thought he was a Quinns player) and D Thomas, though Cudd is quite good from the little bit I've seen

Yeah thats how I read it with Jordan. He was fullback last weekend, and Dan Newton was flyhalf. I guess Iongi is out injured or something, because he was playing really well on the wing last week. Cudd is a decent enough player, but I would assume Dan Thomas will be on for a decent run in the second.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Define Greatness?

Surely winning the unbalanced, poorly structured HC doesn’t make a side great?

For me a great side proves themselves domestically and against the best in Europe.

Toulouse, the Leicester Tigers 2002/3 side, Dallagios Wasps, Munster pre 09, Leinster post 09 , Clermont.

There are no English clubs of this calibre right now hence they are not in the final.

The bar is being raised every year so rather than making excuses maybe these great English clubs should start stepping up to the challenge laid down by the likes of Leinster and Clermont.

Ahh but you forget the Rabo isn't a 'proper' competition and Leinseter basically get a bye to the final of the HEC each year. And it's not fare to compare English clubs with French clubs because of the salary cap!

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