Wales-------------Leinster===Who is the best???

First topic message reminder :

This is not a thread to talk down Wales, or to talk up Leinster.

Wales this year won a Grand Slam, they was crowned the KINGS oF THE NH.
Cannot argue with at all. they was the only team to win ALL their games. And so deserved to be called KINGS of the NH.

Leinster won the Heineken Cup and get crownd the KINGS of Europe.

My question is who is the Best out of Wales and Lenister. because surely their can only be one KING OF EITHER THE NH. OR EUROPE.

Discuss.

Rory shut up

And take that look off your face at the same time

viewtothegym wrote:Well fancy that ! I create an article asking who is better ospreys or England and it get removed with in 10 mins. Shame on you mods,it just about says it all just like the BBC 606 any article that slates welsh rugby is left for all to have fun, say something about England and it gets pulled.

View I removed your article as it was just one too many of these threads comparing club teams with international teams.

At first it was entertaining, now not so much anymore. Sorry it had to be your thread, but enough is enough

Good moderating Biltong, at least you explained your actions. For the record I think you all do a fantastic job managing this forum .

Morgannwg wrote:Good moderating Biltong, at least you explained your actions. For the record I think you all do a fantastic job managing this forum .

I don't! And would like to see a thread devoted to the topic. Posters or Mods.... who is Best? Worst comments are relegated to a second division thread SA mods or Kiwi mods...which is Best? A darn tootin' good idea.


What? ------------ Okay so, ..I'm off to the Relegation thread. But I'll be back!

SecretFly wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Good moderating Biltong, at least you explained your actions. For the record I think you all do a fantastic job managing this forum .

I don't! And would like to see a thread devoted to the topic. Posters or Mods.... who is Best? Worst comments are relegated to a second division thread SA mods or Kiwi mods...which is Best? A darn tootin' good idea.


What? ------------ Okay so, ..I'm off to the Relegation thread. But I'll be back!

well if we had to do a BEST EVER on that, it is most likely the Saffers will once again not make the best XV.

You might not make the best XV Bilton but believe me the gap is closing

RubyGuby wrote:You might not make the best XV Bilton but believe me the gap is closing

you are for youself mate.

Who would win. The Reds (Super champs last year) or Australia (3n Champs last year). They then go on to play Leinster who then battle it out against the World Champs. So many holes in those hypothetical fixtures that it's not worth really considering.

Normally when the ABs play the likes of Munster, it´s a midweek side so would Wales have their own first squad or a mid-week side? Leinster might well win because they have nothing to lose but would it prove they are the best? Sadly no. All it would prove is that bragging rights are exponentially in favour of the underdog.

The French constantly complain that they don't get enough time together as a team and Chabal said this is to blame for their inconsistency. In this respect provincial/ club sides have an advantage over international sides which balances out the disparity in standards of players. Familiarity gives an edge. So, I think this would be an even match. But I would think the same if Clermont played England or France. Also where would the match be held?

What's worrying is that everyone seems to think that Leinster is a better team than Ireland, much as many before thought that Munster was a better team than Ireland. This is chipping away at our love for the national team and our respect for players from other provinces. Not good.

viewtothegym wrote:Well fancy that ! I create an article asking who is better ospreys or England and it get removed with in 10 mins. Shame on you mods,it just about says it all just like the BBC 606 any article that slates welsh rugby is left for all to have fun, say something about England and it gets pulled.

How does this article slate welsh rugby? I reckon Leinster probably would beat Wales if it was played in landsdowne.

All Depends if Rolland is the Ref

Intotouch wrote:The French constantly complain that they don't get enough time together as a team and Chabal said this is to blame for their inconsistency. In this respect provincial/ club sides have an advantage over international sides which balances out the disparity in standards of players. Familiarity gives an edge. So, I think this would be an even match. But I would think the same if Clermont played England or France. Also where would the match be held?

What's worrying is that everyone seems to think that Leinster is a better team than Ireland, much as many before thought that Munster was a better team than Ireland. This is chipping away at our love for the national team and our respect for players from other provinces. Not good.

Not good but unfortaunately true... for now. I don't think we can shirk off the implications for Ireland, or resist saying it (that Leinster play/are better right now), simply to keep up some ideal fantasy that a Provincial side never can be better than the International side. They are and it's for Irish management to redress the problem - not by downgrading Provincial stock but by designed the structure that allows Ireland International to meet those levels and exceed them.

In answer to original post - Wales would be all over them.

slartibartfast wrote:In answer to original post - Wales would be all over them.

When Ireland finally 'upgrade' to Leinster standards (maybe after present International coach goes) we'll have that one answered. Meanwhile, present Ireland (sub-standard to Leinster) top try scorer and points scorer in this year's 6N.

Well Leinster have lost three times to the Ospreys this season, they arent even better than a welsh region let alone a national side

Who won the Heineken Cup just last weekend? Sorry my memory isn't what it used to be..

3-0

Who won the Rabo?

Well, I certainly can't remember Leinster ever being so ungracious for their wins, or any other fans for that matter..

I think I would be happier with a HEC win than winning the Rabo to be honest, Scoped..

So would pretty much anyone, doesn't change the fact that both teams went hell for leather for 80mins and the O's came out on top. Also, Wales would definitely beat Leinster, its a pointless argument.

I don't disagree with that first part at all, Ospreys did brilliantly I thought. As for the last statement, I'll ignore it.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think I would be happier with a HEC win than winning the Rabo to be honest, Scoped..

But failed to beat the Ospreys three times this year. Excellent result well done winning the HEC However its fair to say you have come consistently second best to a region that only supplies one or maybe two players to the Welsh XV at the moment so it is ludicrous to think Leinster are better than the welsh team which is what this thread is about.

I thought the $%&* measuring contest was exclusive to England vs Wales?

biltongbek wrote:I thought the $%&* measuring contest was exclusive to England vs Wales?

not on grand final day.

It was a pointless argument in the first place. Though as I said on the other thread, both of the last two losses to the Ospreys had pretty similar circumstances. We both know Ospreys have one of the best tight fives. And in the last two games, Leinster lost both front rows to injury and had to make major changes. Against one of the best tight fives around. Plus the scrum fiasco.

biltongbek wrote:I thought the $%&* measuring contest was exclusive to England vs Wales?

It seems to be Wales vs whoever is unlucky enough to have lost to them these days..

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

biltongbek wrote:I thought the $%&* measuring contest was exclusive to England vs Wales?

It seems to be Wales vs whoever is unlucky enough to have lost to them these days..

Rory it must be harsh, Losing to the Ospreys and Wales three times on the trot, Dont worry oyu have a summer tour to look forward to

Rory, no matter how ligit your argument is mate, it will only be seen as an excuse

Sigh.. enjoy your win Tycroes.

It was a great game and no team deserved to lose. We've experienced similar defeats to Ireland and it hurts - The ref appeared clueless. I cant help thinking a large neutral venue would be better for a final as well

As always Poite doesn't have a clue about the scrum.

He just rewards the team that is pushing forward and ignores infringments

geoff999rugby wrote:As always Poite doesn't have a clue about the scrum.

He just rewards the team that is pushing forward and ignores infringments

I dont think that's what he did just before half time when after conceding 4 penaltys on their tryline he decided to hand one to Leinster for HT - Very strange - he looked clueless.

That was jsut a cope out but what I say is his usual policy

Poite isn't the only referee who doesn't have a clue in fairness. When every ref has a different approach to the whole 'touch, pause, engage' or whatever they call it these days then this sort of debacle occurs. I was astonished that Adam Jones once again gets away with deliberately bringing the scrum down. He clearly dips his shoulder and pulls his opposing player down. He is an excellent prop because he gets away with this so often- its like McCaw or Pocock at the breakdown because it is so important in the ebb and flow of the game. I just wonder why the touch judges do nothing about it?

The penalties on the Leinster line were a complete embarrassment to northern hemisphere rugby though. An utter shambles.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think I would be happier with a HEC win than winning the Rabo to be honest, Scoped..

But failed to beat the Ospreys three times this year. Excellent result well done winning the HEC However its fair to say you have come consistently second best to a region that only supplies one or maybe two players to the Welsh XV at the moment so it is ludicrous to think Leinster are better than the welsh team which is what this thread is about.

Gracious comments Tycroes. ..Yeah,I'm kidding.

Had Ospreys just won their third HEC, and had a week less to get things back in order to meet the wonderboys of the Pro12, who had a week more and no HEC quarters or semi-finals to worry about in the last number of weeks; tell us how Ospreys would do in that scenario?

No don't because like all of us you don't quite know. But I'd guess Leinster's continuing end-of-season blues, has something to do with how tough a competition HEC is - something they know a lot about

Leinster are obviously a brilliant side and the fact that the Ospreys managed to beat them on their own patch clearly shows that the Ospreys are no mugs either.

Cymroglan wrote: Leinster are obviously a brilliant side and the fact that the Ospreys managed to beat them on their own patch clearly shows that the Ospreys are no mugs either.

Ospreys certainly are no mugs! I expressed worry about them last week after the HEC final and Leinster saying they wanted the double. I thought, well, yes, but it's not much time to prepare and it IS Ospreys...a very, very dangerous team.

No I salute how good Ospreys are and how much better they still could be...but HEC is no boyscouts holiday away from Pro12 (I know you appreciate that) and I'm simply saying respect all round wouldn't be a bad way to end a season on a sunny day.

Cymroglan wrote: Leinster are obviously a brilliant side and the fact that the Ospreys managed to beat them on their own patch clearly shows that the Ospreys are no mugs either.

A fair comment .

Leinster clearly are the best but Ospreys are a very decent side too.
In fact I would say Ospreys are the 2nd best side in the Pro 12 and I say that as an Ulster fan.

For me Ulster and Munster are vying for 3rd best but my gut feeling is Ulster are on the up whilst Munster are on the decline but neither movement is rapid.
Warriors punched above their weight this year and all credit for that, Scarlets, by contrast played below their potential this year.

"Leinster clearly are the best" - Geoff your post about Ulster and Munster going in different directions is bang on but how you can say that Leinster are CLEARLY the best at the moment is beyond me - The O's have had a shambolic management and coaching team until Tandy took over and there is very very little between these teams now. One swallow doesn't make a Summer but IMO, even on paper there is very little between these teams. Leinster better? possibly but certainly not Clearly

Once again this "The Best" is misleading.

Osprey's were better in one compeition and Leinster in another.

Clearly the best is there must be no doubt, it shouldn't be debatable.

I am CLEARLY a better poster than Biltongbek but on the odd and rare occasion I have to stand back and admire the occasional thread that he starts. That's called maturity and being able to be objective and just accept that on occasion you come off 2nd best.

RubyGuby wrote:I am CLEARLY a better poster than Biltongbek but on the odd and rare occasion I have to stand back and admire the occasional thread that he starts. That's called maturity and being able to be objective and just accept that on occasion you come off 2nd best.

Clearly you are.

RubyGuby wrote:"Leinster clearly are the best" - Geoff your post about Ulster and Munster going in different directions is bang on but how you can say that Leinster are CLEARLY the best at the moment is beyond me - The O's have had a shambolic management and coaching team until Tandy took over and there is very very little between these teams now. One swallow doesn't make a Summer but IMO, even on paper there is very little between these teams. Leinster better? possibly but certainly not Clearly

So CLEARLY records don't amount to a hill of beans when Ospreys are involved? Had someone been foolish enough to have written a piece about Ospreys being CLEARLY the 'best' in the Pro12 history.......... "by far!" don't you be minding!! - like one Morg accomplished yesterday, then I'm sure he wouldn't get a reprimand from you telling him that's just a ridiculous over-statement considering that whilst Ospreys were amassing the 4 Pro12 titles - Leinster and Munster between them were amassing 5 HECs. As well as having most league wins in 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2003, 2002. Ospreys topped the League on two occasions. CLEARLY the best in Pro12 "by far".

Obviously, three time HEC champions in four years doesn't make Leinster CLEARLY the best side there either, going on the carnage of comments after they won this year - and given that Clermont is Clermont and is star-studded with fairy-dust magic players who haven't won it once. All hail Clermont, All Hail Ospreys.

My arguement was Ospreys are by far the better Pro 12 team this season when a bitter Ireland fan had the nerve to say Leinter were by far the better pro 12 team. Three on the bounce says otherwise (I'm talking about Ospreys and Leinster head to head here, not Wales and Ireland).

I'll stick with Clearly

3 HC wins in 4 years compared with diddly squat from the Ospreys
Top of the Magners/Pro 12 league 3 of the last 5 years finishing above Ospreys in each of those 5 years.

2 defeats in play off finals dont alter the fact that Leinster have, clearly, the superior record in recent years.

Clearly this will not be resolved.

Morgannwg wrote:My arguement was Ospreys are by far the better Pro 12 team this season when a bitter Ireland fan had the nerve to say Leinter were by far the better pro 12 team. Three on the bounce says otherwise (I'm talking about Ospreys and Leinster head to head here, not Wales and Ireland).

Of course you are talking about Ospreys head-to-heads Morg. And another pint of BITTER for me? Wow, I am popular...pity I don't drink though Between yourself and Ruby you must run an Olde English pub somewheres with all that free flowing "Bitter" you pour down the throats of the Oirish lads that care to comment in a comment site.

Just deal with the comments and leave the "bitter" to me - I'm sure I'll find someone to drink it - but in This season, on This sunny day it's not for me