LIONS UNLEASH HELL

I think Visser will take to International Rugby like a duck to water.

North on one wing with Visser on the other - now thats a frightening prospect !!!

Add a centre combo of Roberts at 12 and Manu at 13 and it's a back line nobody, not least Australia (who are not the most physical) could deal with.

Fast forward a year and hell, lets chuck in cuthbert at 15 where he has played a few times (hits a stunning line though midfield and actually has a massive boot). He will also i believe have gained another few pounds in the gym by next summer on the Welsh conditioning programme, also increasing his power and pace.

Of course Phillips at 9.

Loosing it a little and going very left field lets chuck in Billy Twelvetrees at 10 - we do have a year for him to hit his straps at Gloucester :-) and we have:

9: Mike Phillips 6ft 3" and 16st 5lb.
10: Billy Twelvetrees 6ft 3" and 16st 5lb
11: Tim Visser 6ft 4" and 17st 5lb
12: Jamie Roberts. 6ft 4" and 17st 5lb
13: Manu Tuilagi. 6ft 1" and 17st 5lb
14: George North. 6ft 4" and 17st 5lb
15: Alex Cuthbert. 6ft 6" and. 17st 3lb

Lacks guile and perhaps some flair, but who cares !!! Supplied with plenty of front foot ball by the dominant Lions forwards this lot would simply smash through the likes of Barnes and Cooper. You can double team 1 or 2 players, but not the whole back line.

Hmm popular post then.

Oh God not Twelvetrees again, only got his name out of my head since the sky commentators rinsed him since the O's game against the Tigers.

He was a last minute addition to boost the size stats. Swap for priestland or sexton to be slightly more pragmatic....

It's cert not a Twelvetrees post, I've rarely even seen him play as not big fan of the jeff

Are you suggesting that a team as good as Australia will be beaten 2 out of 3 times through pure power? It might work once but they'll work it out and we'll be ridiculed by the southern hemisphere and it will be a damning indictment of modern rugby: a game for big men. Many of the players you've mentioned should be picked but on their merits and form not just physical attributes; Sexton should go, as should O'Driscoll, Halfpenny, possibly Stuart Hogg, Owen Farrell, Matt Scott, Keith Earls and others. For me a starting lions back line should be:
9. Phillips/ Blair
10. Sexton/ Weir or Farrell or Laidlaw or Flood
11. North/ Visser
12. Roberts/ Scott
13. Tuilagi/ O'Driscoll
14. Cuthbert/ Halfpenny
15. Kearney/ Hogg

Matt Scott ?? That's a joke surely !

Yes Merit and Form - and both stem from their size, power and not forgetting the fact guys like North, Roberts and Cuthbert actually have some skills too.

A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un.

How do you "work out" pure power ?! Either you can handle it or you can't. NZ or SA would have a chance of coping but not Oz

Massive O'Driscoll fan that I am, his best days are behind him.

Now I am Scottish but there is no way in hell Scott is Lions material yet (he has still to break into the Scottish team properly) and the same could be said of Weir, Visser and to a certain extent Hogg. If these boys go on one hell of a run between now and when the squad is announced virtually outplaying all before them then it would be justified.

Cuthbert at 15? really? instead of Kearney? Halfpenny? Foden? Byrne? your having a laugh. Twelvetrees at 10? really ahead of Sexton? Farrell? Priestland? he isnt even third choice for England!

Visser has yet to prove how good he is going to be at international level. BOD will be thirteen unless his body finally guves up!

North plays 11.

So you managed to get Jamie Roberts right, well done, Are you Rob Andrew?

TycroesOsprey wrote:Cuthbert at 15? really? instead of Kearney? Halfpenny? Foden? Byrne? your having a laugh. Twelvetrees at 10? really ahead of Sexton? Farrell? Priestland? he isnt even third choice for England!

Visser has yet to prove how good he is going to be at international level. BOD will be thirteen unless his body finally guves up!

North plays 11.

So you managed to get Jamie Roberts right, well done, Are you Rob Andrew?

Trycroes - clearly I was having a bit of a laugh with Cuthbert at 15 and Billy T at 10 ! They fitted my "power" bill.

Visser has never failed to step up to the plate, I think he will prove it.

BODs body pretty much has given up, his legs have all but gone. Another years rugby will hardly help...

And correction for you on North. His first games for Scarlets and Wales were at 14 remember ?? Also a certain S Williams played 11 for Wales or did you forget him already ?? His try on the right against Treviso:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXw76Znbs0Q

AND

Debut for Wales vs SA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLkLwlXXtg8

He switched to 11 after the World Cup to accomodate Alex Cuthbert....

If your gonna correct people get your facts right.

Sorry like but wheres the skillful players.....

Wheres your shane williams / Jason Robinson type players...(if was a very biased Englishman....i might say Wade "could" be that player but he's got a matter of a SA tour to see if he can handle)

Wheres your creative 10, or 12?

Size is important...but so is creativity....

Oh and by god....theres an awful lot of pressure on Visser to produce some blistering form in his first few International games!
He's being talked up like he's gonna win games on his own like Lomu!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sorry like but wheres the skillful players.....

Wheres your shane williams / Jason Robinson type players...(if was a very biased Englishman....i might say Wade "could" be that player but he's got a matter of a SA tour to see if he can handle)

Wheres your creative 10, or 12?

Size is important...but so is creativity....

Oh and by god....theres an awful lot of pressure on Visser to produce some blistering form in his first few International games!
He's being talked up like he's gonna win games on his own like Lomu!

No pressure on Visser in this back line, he's just one of 6 Lomus

You need a plan B to win international rugby matches rather than just smash, smash, smash. I promise you when Wales play New Zealand or South Africa they'll be thrashed, you need a combination of players who run powerfully and players to put them into space. If you're logic worked imagine where Scotland could have gone with Rob Dewey, Graeme Morrison, Nikki Walker and the Lamonts...

And let's see how Visser's defence stands up at international level before we discuss him as a Lions contender; he is possibly the best finisher in the northern hemisphere but defensively he is lacking.

123456789 wrote:You need a plan B to win international rugby matches rather than just smash, smash, smash. I promise you when Wales play New Zealand or South Africa they'll be thrashed, you need a combination of players who run powerfully and players to put them into space. If you're logic worked imagine where Scotland could have gone with Rob Dewey, Graeme Morrison, Nikki Walker and the Lamonts...

But those 5 players are all crap

Morrison and Walker lack any semblance of pace or balance and we never more than club players who happened to be big.

The Lamonts to be fair to them are tidy enough, physically not in the same league as North, Visser or Cuthbert and bizarrely as with S Lamonts, often played way out of position.

It's not just power, Visser, north and Cuthbert are hugely quick - as quick as an wingers out there

the welsh boys in my backslide are certainly not smash, smash, smash - look at Norths offloads and Cuthberts lines, even Roberts has become a silky distributor.

Sheer power in the backs will not beat Australia. They are superb defensively. You have to cut their line with great running lines and pace. Look for space first rather than contact. And then some big mobile forwards will help make the most of any gain line advantage to secure quick ball.

Rugby is a simple game - keep going forward and you will get points one way or the other. This simple approach is often overlooked.

Somehow i dont see the tri nations struggling to contain a big backline. Australia will very quickly unlock slower defences as they've shown over the years, nobody will physically bully the All blacks and trying to beat the Springboks on a power game is just folly

You need creativity too.

Sexton at 10. O'Driscoll's performance in the HC final was class. If he's playing like that next year then bring back the brilliant BOD/Roberts partnership.

The Big Welsh boys on the wings. Along with Roberts they'll give us more than enough power. Sexton and BOD to be the brains of the operation. Pull the strings like they do with Leinster. Tuilagi on the bench to come on and cause them more pain. Phillips is a big match animal.

Then we're spoiled for choice at fullback. Foden, kearney or Halfpenny are all class.

I'd actually go foe Dan Cole and Alex Corbisiero as the props. English props scare Aussie's. Fact. Gray and O'Connell in the 2nd row. We have so many top class back rowers.

I think it could be a very special Lions team if Gatland gets it right.

We'll crush their scrum, dismantle their lineout, trounce them at the breakdown and alternatively bash and dazzle them with our backs. It will take years for Australian rugby to recover.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Sheer power in the backs will not beat Australia. They are superb defensively. You have to cut their line with great running lines and pace. Look for space first rather than contact. And then some big mobile forwards will help make the most of any gain line advantage to secure quick ball.

Rugby is a simple game - keep going forward and you will get points one way or the other. This simple approach is often overlooked.

Contradicted yourself there hound - "rugby IS a simple game - keep going forward and you will get points". EXACTLY what my boys would do.

My boys WILL look for space, just when they have to take contact they will win the contact, thats the key - and when in space they all have the Pace to exploit it.

Feckless Rogue wrote:You need creativity too.

Sexton at 10. O'Driscoll's performance in the HC final was class. If he's playing like that next year then bring back the brilliant BOD/Roberts partnership.

The Big Welsh boys on the wings. Along with Roberts they'll give us more than enough power. Sexton and BOD to be the brains of the operation. Pull the strings like they do with Leinster. Tuilagi on the bench to come on and cause them more pain. Phillips is a big match animal.

Then we're spoiled for choice at fullback. Foden, kearney or Halfpenny are all class.

I'd actually go foe Dan Cole and Alex Corbisiero as the props. English props scare Aussie's. Fact. Gray and O'Connell in the 2nd row. We have so many top class back rowers.

I think it could be a very special Lions team if Gatland gets it right.

We'll crush their scrum, dismantle their lineout, trounce them at the breakdown and alternatively bash and dazzle them with our backs. It will take years for Australian rugby to recover.

Feckless, your right of course, the rapier and the sword, the cannon and the pistol. If Gats gets it right we could well crush the Aussies into the kind of cheating that saved them from losing the 2001 series.

If size is the criterion for selection then surely Banahan has to be on the list?

It's not Size - its power and pace. Hence no room for Bananaman, he really has neither.

Bananaman couldn't even beat Shane Wiliams 5 yards out, that's an embarrassment.

It's a bit like sticking Courtney Lawes on the wing. In fact he'd be a better option.

So why give size statistics rather than 100m times?

The Great Aukster wrote:So why give size statistics rather than 100m times?

fair enough point, POWER and PACE, neither Devastating without the other - Size stats I know, their 100 m times I don't! Unless they are Kristian Phillips

https://www.606v2.com/t29521-kristian-phillips-is-the-uk-under-13-100m-record-holder

These guys will rarely, if ever run 100m timed. Its all 40m based now.

Alex Cuthbert has, at 4.58seconds, one of the fastest 40m times of any rugby pro in the UK.

And George North has one of the biggest Sprint Endurance Capacities the Welsh Sprint Consultant has ever seen.
Adding to his growing Freaky Legend !

I know it's old fashioned but personally I'd prefer to pick players on their rugby ability

As do I - My post was tongue in cheek (15 and 10 in particular ), but highlighted some of the ability available to the lions to break the line.

As you will have seen teams find it hard to contain North, Cuthbert and Tuilagi. in the last seasons they have created space for the likes of Halfpenny and Davies in particular for Wales to score many tries. Add Visser (Id his defence stacks up) to the mix and the gaps will come....

123456789 wrote:Are you suggesting that a team as good as Australia will be beaten 2 out of 3 times through pure power? It might work once but they'll work it out and we'll be ridiculed by the southern hemisphere and it will be a damning indictment of modern rugby: a game for big men. Many of the players you've mentioned should be picked but on their merits and form not just physical attributes; Sexton should go, as should O'Driscoll, Halfpenny, possibly Stuart Hogg, Owen Farrell, Matt Scott, Keith Earls and others. For me a starting lions back line should be:
9. Phillips/ Blair
10. Sexton/ Weir or Farrell or Laidlaw or Flood
11. North/ Visser
12. Roberts/ Scott
13. Tuilagi/ O'Driscoll
14. Cuthbert/ Halfpenny
15. Kearney/ Hogg

australia arnt that good anyway- dont put em on such a pedastol

I'm excited by the upcoming Lions tour. Wales have a RWC semi final reaching, Grand Slam winning team. England were the bounce of a ball away from a Grand Slam themselves and demolished the Irish pack recently. Ireland have some brilliance evident in their HC teams, which Gatland can harness, even if Kidney won't. Even Scotland have some world class contributions in Gray and possibly Visser.

But I don't think you should be to nationalistic/Welsh-centric in your enthusiasm for the Lions Oxford. You'll only get into arguments. The beauty of the Lions is that they can combine to be better than any of the home nations (or worse as in 2005).

I'm really looking forward to seeing the next Lions squad in action. I'm not looking forward to the squabbles between the Welsh and Irish about who should be starting back rowers. That's gonna be heated

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'm excited by the upcoming Lions tour. Wales have a RWC semi final reaching, Grand Slam winning team. England were the bounce of a ball away from a Grand Slam themselves and demolished the Irish pack recently. Ireland have some brilliance evident in their HC teams, which Gatland can harness, even if Kidney won't. Even Scotland have some world class contributions in Gray and possibly Visser.

But I don't think you should be to nationalistic/Welsh-centric in your enthusiasm for the Lions Oxford. You'll only get into arguments. The beauty of the Lions is that they can combine to be better than any of the home nations (or worse as in 2005).

I'm really looking forward to seeing the next Lions squad in action. I'm not looking forward to the squabbles between the Welsh and Irish about who should be starting back rowers. That's gonna be heated

For sure !! I love the Lions more than anything. As a Welshman 'abroad' it's the only time my English Mates and I can support the same team .

I'm not really one-eyed, and remember well the great 1997 Lions where I think we only 2 Welshmen in the Test Side, Jenkins and Gibbs (what an impact he had though !).

As you say, Take a strong a Wales, add English front 5 power, Irish back row power, the Fords, Greys and Vissers of Scotland and if the mix is right how can we lose ??

Oxford Welsh wrote:As you say, Take a strong a Wales, add English front 5 power, Irish back row power, the Fords, Greys and Vissers of Scotland and if the mix is right how can we lose ??

Well, they could score more points than us!


Let's gets the summers tours, AI's and 6N's done first and see who's still standing.

Feckless Rogue wrote:You need creativity too.

Sexton at 10. O'Driscoll's performance in the HC final was class. If he's playing like that next year then bring back the brilliant BOD/Roberts partnership.

The Big Welsh boys on the wings. Along with Roberts they'll give us more than enough power. Sexton and BOD to be the brains of the operation. Pull the strings like they do with Leinster. Tuilagi on the bench to come on and cause them more pain. Phillips is a big match animal.

Then we're spoiled for choice at fullback. Foden, kearney or Halfpenny are all class.

I'd actually go foe Dan Cole and Alex Corbisiero as the props. English props scare Aussie's. Fact. Gray and O'Connell in the 2nd row. We have so many top class back rowers.

I think it could be a very special Lions team if Gatland gets it right.

We'll crush their scrum, dismantle their lineout, trounce them at the breakdown and alternatively bash and dazzle them with our backs. It will take years for Australian rugby to recover.

I Like

The Lions are so 20th Century... when did they last win again?

Oxford Welsh wrote: Alex Cuthbert has, at 4.58seconds, one of the fastest 40m times of any rugby pro in the UK.

How many players have recorded times at that time to make such a claim.

It is my understand, for example, that Paul Marshall at Ulster is faster than that - did you consider him.

I don't think the data is available to make such an assessment.

Oxford Welsh wrote:As you say, Take a strong a Wales, add English front 5 power, Irish back row power, the Fords, Greys and Vissers of Scotland and if the mix is right how can we lose ??

Fairly sure there is only one Ford, and I'm sure sure you meant to suggest that Johnny Grey and Sep Visser are ready for the Lions.

How could the Lions lose? Well, there's Moore, Sharpe, Pocock, Genia, Cooper, Barnes, McCabe, Horne, AAC, Ioane, Mitchell, JOC and Beale. These guys are pretty decent players, are coached by a top class coach and have the advantage of playing together quite regularly.

I think the Lions have a chance, a better chance than on the last two tours, but the Aussies must surely be favourites.

A scratch side against a pro international side will always be up against it.That is the charm.To acheive the improbable is the dream of all Lions fans.

A scratch side against a pro international side will always be up against it.That is the charm.To acheive the improbable is the dream of all Lions fans.

Well lets be hoinest it isnt gonna be impobable- i would say it will be 50/50 with the bookies- impossible call

Last time the Lions unleashed Hell on the ABs it sort of didn't work.

The problem with big back lines, is they can become one dimensional. You might see a backline like that becoming predictable, you can look at a guy like aplon, who weighs a mere 78kg's, he plays a team like that in the last twenty, he might just run circles around them.

Look at Lomu, as great a runner as he was, his positional play and his ability to turn back when a ball is kicked over his head, was questioned by many a team.