Newcastle will be in the Jeff next year

First topic message reminder :

The RFU have confirmed that London Welsh have failed in their bid to get a suitable ground for the Jeff if they were to win the play off

Well done Newcastle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18175903

Ironically the fact that no-one appears (pending LW's appeal) to be going to be relegated on this occasion, makes no difference. No doubt given 20-20 foresight, the intensity of the Jeff this season would have been much different - almost Rabo-like in fact.

sheephead wrote:Hammer; exactly what we think when poster comment on the Rabo...

What? Any posters making any comments?

How long have the qualification criteria been in place? when they were introduced there should have been a set time period for all the premiership clubs to meet the required standards. This would have avoided this potentially tricky situation, made even moreso by the result this evening. London Welsh, in my opinion and if the win round 2, have a valid legal argument against the PRL/RFU. And to the poster who mentioned that the team that finished 2nd shouldnt be in the premiership......isnt that where exeter finished the season they were promoted?

Not sure how long they've been there for but you're right about the current premiership clubs having a time scale. I believe the comment was regarding Welsh not Pirates (Welsh were 4th weren't they?).

sheephead wrote:Can some English fans stop harping on about the English clubs having to fight relegation now and the fact it was the reason for a poor European season (their words not mine). This is proof it simply isn't true.

Yup, all the AP clubs gazed into their crystal balls in September and knew this was going to happen.

Trust, me - all the Falcons fans were distraught after the game at Adams Park.

Gimme strength!!

I believe that the requirement to have covered stands has been in place since 2006, but I may have misinterpreted. The consequences of not complying are a £5,000 fine plus points deduction (if you're a premiership club like Bath who don't have covered stands), or refusal of promotion if you're an aspirant club.

Can't ever remember Bath being deducted points, though.

jeffwinger wrote:As for LW being promoted, I agree with those who say they haven't put in the hard yards over the last few years to deserve it. They did not come top of the league and fail to meet a number of the stadium requirements. It is also my view that were they to be promoted, it would be highly likely they'd drop straight back down with a record low points total. Promoting a team who were not the best side over the course of the season and cannot meet the competition's entry requirements would set a bad precedent.

These were the bits I was answering to. Pirates were 3rd and LW were 4th at the end of the "regular season". Both were runners up in the play off stages, and both beat the teams who finished above them in the regular season and the play offs when playing them in the semis.

Exeter finished 2nd at the end of the regular season, 14 points behind Bristol, on the first occasion that Bristol showed they couldnt play knock out rugby :/ I think we all agree exeter didn't get a record low points total in their 1st season in the AP, and definitely not in their 2nd!

I do agree Exeter have planned in the long term though and huge HUGE Kudos to them. I would possibly keep an eye on Jersey in the coming season.....do they meet the Premiership criteria!?!?!?

Fair point.

Jersey are going to struggle a little this year as they lose the extra money from the RFU for travel. I've no idea what the population of Jersey is but if they can get the island behind them it'll be great for them to become a competitive championship side

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bath could be in trouble next year.....

Behave

HERSH wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bath could be in trouble next year.....

Behave

They were this year, weren't they?

pharmachris wrote:

jeffwinger wrote:As for LW being promoted, I agree with those who say they haven't put in the hard yards over the last few years to deserve it. They did not come top of the league and fail to meet a number of the stadium requirements. It is also my view that were they to be promoted, it would be highly likely they'd drop straight back down with a record low points total. Promoting a team who were not the best side over the course of the season and cannot meet the competition's entry requirements would set a bad precedent.

These were the bits I was answering to. Pirates were 3rd and LW were 4th at the end of the "regular season". Both were runners up in the play off stages, and both beat the teams who finished above them in the regular season and the play offs when playing them in the semis.

Exeter finished 2nd at the end of the regular season, 14 points behind Bristol, on the first occasion that Bristol showed they couldnt play knock out rugby :/ I think we all agree exeter didn't get a record low points total in their 1st season in the AP, and definitely not in their 2nd!

I do agree Exeter have planned in the long term though and huge HUGE Kudos to them. I would possibly keep an eye on Jersey in the coming season.....do they meet the Premiership criteria!?!?!?

Twas only a 4 point deficit. with the same win/loss in the phoney league, and while Bris had the 4 extra bonus points, Chiefs had a better points difference. The two teams were runaway leaders, but it seems that Exe managed the overall season better, with lots of rotation on the first half, and a conditioning break in the second half.

HammerofThunor wrote:Fair point.

Jersey are going to struggle a little this year as they lose the extra money from the RFU for travel. I've no idea what the population of Jersey is but if they can get the island behind them it'll be great for them to become a competitive championship side

Apparently (well, Hound of Harrow told me when we went to the Ealing vs Jersey match) Jersey have the best travelling support in NL1. But a population of 98,000 on Jersey is a bit of a stretch to fill a 10k stadium regularly. By way of contrast, Dunedin NZ has a popularion of 120,000 (with around another 80,000 living within 2 hours drive), and they're managing to get 20,000 average crowds, to a brand new, covered, stadium in a rugby mad country (albeit with an average income a lot lower than in Jersey).

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

pharmachris wrote:

jeffwinger wrote:As for LW being promoted, I agree with those who say they haven't put in the hard yards over the last few years to deserve it. They did not come top of the league and fail to meet a number of the stadium requirements. It is also my view that were they to be promoted, it would be highly likely they'd drop straight back down with a record low points total. Promoting a team who were not the best side over the course of the season and cannot meet the competition's entry requirements would set a bad precedent.

These were the bits I was answering to. Pirates were 3rd and LW were 4th at the end of the "regular season". Both were runners up in the play off stages, and both beat the teams who finished above them in the regular season and the play offs when playing them in the semis.

Exeter finished 2nd at the end of the regular season, 14 points behind Bristol, on the first occasion that Bristol showed they couldnt play knock out rugby :/ I think we all agree exeter didn't get a record low points total in their 1st season in the AP, and definitely not in their 2nd!

I do agree Exeter have planned in the long term though and huge HUGE Kudos to them. I would possibly keep an eye on Jersey in the coming season.....do they meet the Premiership criteria!?!?!?

Twas only a 4 point deficit. with the same win/loss in the phoney league, and while Bris had the 4 extra bonus points, Chiefs had a better points difference. The two teams were runaway leaders, but it seems that Exe managed the overall season better, with lots of rotation on the first half, and a conditioning break in the second half.

You are quite right...... I cannot add up.....88+14 would have been 102 points......

all together.. 1 plus 1 is 2. 2 plus 2 is 4....

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:So all that guff about Premiership clubs having to battle it all out all season compared to the layabouts in the Pro 12 comes to nothing.

Presumably that'll have to come off the list of arguments for these new proposals being tabled for the European Cup.

Regardles of whether it does or doesnt affect the hc campaigns this doesnt mean the relegation wasnt a worry for the likes of newcastle. Everyone expected Brizzle to walk the playoffs, and it was an open question regarding LW.
Are you sugesting that Newcastle didnt bother winning by enough on the final game because they knew Bristol would lose? Or that the mid table clubs didnt care about getting in the HC?
There was only one game played in the Jeff this season that had nothing riding on it for the playoffs, HC qualification or relegation. Theres no other league that has that level of meaningful competition. Again that doesnt mean Newcastle would be better than Leinster if the Jeff was all friendlies...but its just bunk to suggest the Jeff isnt competitive and hard fought and that relegation isnt a legitimate concern for all but the very biggest clubs like err Northampton

No I din't say that the Premiership isn't competitive and hard fought. I said that all this guff having to battle it our all season - regarding relegation - comes to nothing, when the threat of relegation, suddenly didn't materialise. I recognize that qualification for HC is a separate issue. Are there not a few Premiership bosses peed off that time, energy and players was spent pursuing the avoidance of what amounted to a 50/50 threat at the end of season? Either the threat of relegation is real or it's not. It seems farcical that you get to the end of the season, flogging your players, to be told "actually, lads, that relegation thing - it ain't gonna happen this season."

I confess to not knowing the ins and outs of all the Championship teams, but how many of the chasers - besides Bristol - were actually like to get promoted given the strict promotion conditions they are subject to?

Why isn't this sorted out at the beginning of the season, rather than at the end of it? London Welsh must be rightly peeved. It strikes me that it's a strong argument to close the door on relegation for a period of time, and allow clubs build up some momentum and cash to make an honest attempt at promotion, knowing from day one that they have a chance.

And I think there's a few others besides err Northampton who don't have to worry about 50/50 relegation.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Fair point.

Jersey are going to struggle a little this year as they lose the extra money from the RFU for travel. I've no idea what the population of Jersey is but if they can get the island behind them it'll be great for them to become a competitive championship side

Apparently (well, Hound of Harrow told me when we went to the Ealing vs Jersey match) Jersey have the best travelling support in NL1. But a population of 98,000 on Jersey is a bit of a stretch to fill a 10k stadium regularly. By way of contrast, Dunedin NZ has a popularion of 120,000 (with around another 80,000 living within 2 hours drive), and they're managing to get 20,000 average crowds, to a brand new, covered, stadium in a rugby mad country (albeit with an average income a lot lower than in Jersey).

To be fair Bath only have a population of 83,992 (according to wiki) and regularly sell out their 12,000 stadium all year round. No offence but in NZ it seems that people only go to watch winning teams (which is why the Highlanders's attendances are up)

Pot Hale wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:So all that guff about Premiership clubs having to battle it all out all season compared to the layabouts in the Pro 12 comes to nothing.

Presumably that'll have to come off the list of arguments for these new proposals being tabled for the European Cup.

Regardles of whether it does or doesnt affect the hc campaigns this doesnt mean the relegation wasnt a worry for the likes of newcastle. Everyone expected Brizzle to walk the playoffs, and it was an open question regarding LW.
Are you sugesting that Newcastle didnt bother winning by enough on the final game because they knew Bristol would lose? Or that the mid table clubs didnt care about getting in the HC?
There was only one game played in the Jeff this season that had nothing riding on it for the playoffs, HC qualification or relegation. Theres no other league that has that level of meaningful competition. Again that doesnt mean Newcastle would be better than Leinster if the Jeff was all friendlies...but its just bunk to suggest the Jeff isnt competitive and hard fought and that relegation isnt a legitimate concern for all but the very biggest clubs like err Northampton

No I din't say that the Premiership isn't competitive and hard fought. I said that all this guff having to battle it our all season - regarding relegation - comes to nothing, when the threat of relegation, suddenly didn't materialise. I recognize that qualification for HC is a separate issue. Are there not a few Premiership bosses peed off that time, energy and players was spent pursuing the avoidance of what amounted to a 50/50 threat at the end of season? Either the threat of relegation is real or it's not. It seems farcical that you get to the end of the season, flogging your players, to be told "actually, lads, that relegation thing - it ain't gonna happen this season."

I confess to not knowing the ins and outs of all the Championship teams, but how many of the chasers - besides Bristol - were actually like to get promoted given the strict promotion conditions they are subject to?

Why isn't this sorted out at the beginning of the season, rather than at the end of it? London Welsh must be rightly peeved. It strikes me that it's a strong argument to close the door on relegation for a period of time, and allow clubs build up some momentum and cash to make an honest attempt at promotion, knowing from day one that they have a chance.

And I think there's a few others besides err Northampton who don't have to worry about 50/50 relegation.

Its up to the clubs to apply to have themsleves audited, if they dont apply early it doesnt get done early. Obviously in this case LW didnt think they had a cat in hells chance so didnt bother...in the end the ground capacity wasnt the only issue that was raised by the auditors. Pirates didnt apply at all because they know it would bankrupt them to go up before they are ready. Many people seem to be unaware that a lot of the clubs in the championship have business models built around staying there.

The Northampton comment was a joke, even the second biggest club in the Jeff has been relegated in recent years. It is a legitimate concern for everyone (even if thats keeping an eye open on the situation 2 or 3 years down the road).