Who Gets In An England-South Africa XI

Today on www.alloutcricket.com David Green picks his composite XI from the two best sides in the world:

http://www.alloutcricket.com/blogs/comment/who-gets-in-an-england-south-africa-xi

Agree? Disagree? Let us know what you think.

Interesting one! And bloody tough, too!

Bell vs De Villiers for example - I want them both! Both supremely talented!

Here goes:

Alastair Cook
Graeme Smith (c)
Jonathan Trott (Amla is a mighty fine player, but I want more solidarity, and I hate that beard)
Jacques Kallis
Kevin Pietersen
AB de Villiers (JUST!! Very little between he and Bell talent wise, and Bell perhaps better to watch in classical terms)
Matt Prior
Stuart Broad
Graeme Swann
Dale Steyn
James Anderson

England 7 - 4 South Africa.

However, tough picks. Amla is a superb number three, couldn't split him and Trott. Likewise, Bell and ABdV very similar. Others were relatively easy. Broad ahead of Morkel for his batting. Philander a tad over-rated, too.

Strauss v Smith - narrowly Smith
Cook v Petersen - emphatically Cook
Trott v Amla - dead heat
Pietersen v Kallis - both must play
de Villiers v Bell - another dead heat
Rudolph/ Duminy v Bopara/ Bairstow/ Patel/ Morgan - none likely to feature
Prior v Boucher - clearly Prior
Philander v Bresnan/ Finn/ Tremlett - Philander on recent form
Steyn v Anderson - both must play
Broad v Morkel - too close to call
Swann v Tahir - Swann

So:

1. Alastair Cook
2. Hashim Amla
3. Jonathan Trott
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. AB de Villiers (c)
7. Matt Prior (wk)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. Dale Steyn
11. James Anderson

But that is very harsh on Smith, Bell and Morkel in particular...

The way I see it is that England have more top players, but those top players that South Africa have are incredibly dynamic, which evens it up or even puts them ahead of us.

1. Graeme Smith (c)
2. Alastair Cook
3. Hashim Amla - Purely because I think he is much better in a run chase than Trott.
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. AB de Villiers
7. Matt Prior (wk)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. Dale Steyn
11. James Anderson

It makes for a cracking series though.

Seems we are pretty unanimous in our selections. What a side that would be!

Fists of Fury wrote:The way I see it is that England have more top players, but those top players that South Africa have are incredibly dynamic, which evens it up or even puts them ahead of us.

I'm not sure of that. England will have one 'weak link' at number six and another less experienced seamer. SA will have a similar issue at number six, whilst Tahir and Boucher haven't really delivered of late. But you are aware of my disagreement with you re Philander. I believe he was bowling within himself for Somerset, and (fitness permitting) will be every bit as devastating this summer as he was in the winter.

I think AOC have it just about right. The three really close picks for me are the Trott/Amla, De Villiers/Bell and the thrid seamer spot, the rest pretty much picks itself I'd say. For a bit more in-depth I'm going to try to mark each player from either side out of 10.

Strauss - 7 Smith - 8. Both fine captains (Strauss probably slightly ahead in the captaincy stakes), but Smith is the better bat.

Cook - 9 Peterson - 5. Cook is the best opener in world cricket at the moment, while the second opening spot for SA is one of their three main weaknesses.

Trott - 8 Amla - 9. Trott is a fine n°3, but Amla is IMO the best n°3 in the world right now.

KP - 9 Kallis - 9.5. Both tremendous players, enough said.

Bell - 8.5 De Villiers - 9. Read above.

Bairstow - 5 Rudolph - 5. Too early to judge Bairstow, this is a weakness for both teams.

Prior - 8.5 Boucher - 6.5. Prior is the best wicket-keeper batsman in the world currently, Boucher is on the wane.

Swann - 9 Tahir - 5.5. Swann right up there with Ajmal as the top two spinners, Tahir some way below that.

Broad - 8 Philander 8. Broad's form over the last year has been fantastic, Philander has had a dream start to Test cricket.

Anderson - 9 Steyn - 9.5. Steyn is the best fast bowler in the world, Anderson the second best.

Bresnan/Finn - 7.5 Morkel 8. excellent bowlers.

Totals: England 88.5 SA 83

England seem to have less weaknesses in their side to me (n°6 is a weakness for both teams, but SA also lack a second opener and a world class spinner). It's close though, and should be a cracking series.

Indeed Fists.

I think the players there speak for themselves really. Some are so difficult to pick between. Like the number 3. If you were chasing victory you would have Amla, yet if you were trying to bat through 1-2 days you would plump for Trott.

It would be interesting to see what would transpire if England had to chase an innings to win and also if South Africa had to bat for 1-2 days to save a match. 2 interesting scenario's that for me would be what could decide the series.

I think that unless we pick Finn we may just lack the firepower to bowl South Africa out. When it went flat and there was no swing on offer against the Windies we struggled a fair bit to dislodge a player of Samuels ability. If that were Smith, Amla, Kallis or de Villiers it would have been nigh on impossible.

Pick a pacy seamer England, it is one thing we miss.

Just to qualify that, I mean in good batting conditions. Obviously when it is hooping we have the quality to bowl anyone out.

I am looking forward to this series, we must keep this thread going until the end of the test series, then we'll do the same exercise after.

You're incredibly confident of beating us aren't you, Biltong?

Better make sure they don't choke on their aeroplane dinner on the way over

Not really Fists, i beleive the first test we will lose, our players will come in rusty and will struggle in the first innings of batting and bowling.

The scoend and third test must be won by us to take the series, which is highly unlikely as england has a nice test series where they can slowly warm up to their best form against a West Indies team that by all accounts shouldn't be able to win a test.

So england will be ready from the word go.

The advantage is most definitely with england.

But then again so was it in 2008.

I personally think South Africa will win a close series.

Amla
Cook
Trott
KP
Kallis
De-Villiers
Prior
Broad
Swann
Steyn
Anderson

Fists of Fury wrote:I personally think South Africa will win a close series.

Well based on the selections here, it would suggest a comfortable series win for England.

Ha, as I said, I feel that South Africa possess more dynamic players, which I think will win it for them.

England will win 2-1, IMHO

England to win 3-0 with three innings victories. Smith and Kirsten to resign after the series, Kallis and Boucher retire, De Villiers goes back to playing hockey, Philander is dropped after he fails to take a wicket in the entire series and his Test bowling average shoots up to 167, Steyn's career is ended after a mid pitch brawl with Kevin Pietersen and Morne Morkel is still trying to complete his first over of the series after bowling 691 no balls. That's what I imagine will happen.

I can see a 1-0, or 1-1 in this series though as I think there will be at least one draw at Lord's and potentially another at the Oval. Three positive results are quite unlikely for me, even with the bowling attacks on show.

I see a 1-1 draw.

JDizzle wrote:England to win 3-0 with three innings victories. Smith and Kirsten to resign after the series, Kallis and Boucher retire, De Villiers goes back to playing hockey, Philander is dropped after he fails to take a wicket in the entire series and his Test bowling average shoots up to 167, Steyn's career is ended after a mid pitch brawl with Kevin Pietersen and Morne Morkel is still trying to complete his first over of the series after bowling 691 no balls. That's what I imagine will happen.

I like that JD, now that the worst is out the way, we can focus on the positives.

Amla to score 1967 runs in the series, unbeaten.

On the other side Morkel blocks an end for a collective of 45 hours batting scoring 17 runs in the process.

The midfield brawl Steyn has with Pietersen comes in the 4th innings of the third test after Steyn completed 5, 10 inning hauls for the cost of 72 runs.

SA wins the series 2-0

biltongbek wrote:Amla to score 1967 runs in the series, unbeaten.

On the other side Morkel blocks an end for a collective of 45 hours batting scoring 17 runs in the process.

The midfield brawl Steyn has with Pietersen comes in the 4th innings of the third test after Steyn completed 5, 10 inning hauls for the cost of 72 runs.

SA wins the series 2-0

You only win 2-0 after all that.

Did you choke in the 3rd game?

Play was stopped after the

Will be a cracking series for sure, to top sides, hope it won't go the way of the last summer though. But then, England of course was the favorit, although most expected India to put up a better show than they eventually managed.
But I think this time round the fight is between to mcloser closer sides in terms of balance and bowling firepower.
As far as the XI is concerned.
Graeme Smith captain.
Alastair Cook.
Hashim Amla. (think Amla is a better player than Trott is, although the latter is a fine cricketer).
Jacques Kallis.
Kevin Pietersen.
AB De Villiers. (Here I have to disagree with those who consider the head to head between AB and Ian Bell a mighty close one. Bell has considerably developed as a batsman over the last couple of years in particular, but AB is a much better batsman across conditions. Bell is not even half the player that AB is against spin bowling, not that South Africa has a worldbeater in that particular kind of bowling. Also, AB has at least 2 additional higher gears in his batting. This is not intented as a slide on Bell, he is indeed a fine player, but AB is a touch above his range for me).
Matt Prior.
Graeme Swann.
Dale Steyn.
James Anderson.
That leaves open one position, that of a seamer. For me there are 3 contenters, Stuart Broad, Vernon Philander, an Morne Morkel. All the 3 are fine bowlers. Broad and Philander have superb recent form as well.
Its a very dificult choice, and considering his better batting abilities as an addition, I'd still go for Broad over Philander, may be the series end review that Biltong wants, would come up with something different.

Graeme Smith
Alistair Cook
Jonathon Trott
Kevin Piertesen
Jacques Kallis
AB De Villiers
Matt Prior (wk)
Graeme swann
Dale Steyn
Morne Morkel
James Anderson

Let me help you guys out from an objective point of view, one at the moment statistics based as my perception of who is better often conflicts with you guys.

When you look at current ICC rankings which indicates most recent form the advantage of the batsmen lies clearly with SA.

Currently in the top 10 rankings are:

AB de Villiers
JH Kallis
A Cook
H Amla

Coincidently also the four batsmen with the best all round ability in different conditions

That leaves two more needed

GC Smith and then Trott, Bell and Pietersen, all together.

So my six batsmen will be:
Smith
Cook
Amla
Kallis
Pietersen/Bell/Trott (I need help here as I don't know who has recently done better in English conditions)
AB de Villiers

My wicketkeeper will be M Prior

Looking at bowlers, straight off the bat, Steyn and Anderson will be my front line bolwers, purely because both will use the English conditions best and has been the two best seem bowlers over the past 2 years.

Swan is the obvious choice as spinner.

For my final selection I want variety so Morkel comes to mind as he will provide something totally different, however I am openminded if you say Finn or Bresnan could deliver similar type deliveries as Morkel, I don't know them well.

As a back up I will have Pietersen in my extended squad and Philander.

Smith(c)
Cook
Amla
Kallis
KP
De Villiers/Bell (In most conditions, I'd say AB comfortably but in England, cant separate the two)
Prior
Broad/Morkel( Too tight to call, Broad's batting edges it)
Swann
Steyn
Jimmy

strauss(picking him because he is the best captain there is - not talking about batting here- even though he is good enough- but its about who is the better at there top job and that is strauss- number 1 captain in test cricket)
cook
alma
kp
kallis
de villiers
prior
broad
swann
steyn
jimmy



no other world combined team could beat that above team..

Err Strauss over Smith? Sorry but Smith is streets ahead as a batsman and as a tactician. Strauss a better man manager.

did you not read the post?

to reiterate- i am picking him because he is the captain of the best team in the world. he is the better captain in my opinion. Never drop a winning captain in my view- even if his playing form is bad. Its all about the results!

If SA beat us then i would obviously pick Smith

Smith (c)
Cook
Amla
Kallis
ABDV
Bell
Prior (wk)
Broad
Swann
Philander
Steyn

Philander ahead of Anderson?

its his opinion dude- or would you rather 200 posters come on and copy you?

No Anderson Gregers? And I wondered how you had managed to fit in both Bell and ABDV until I worked out who you had dropped!

Smith - 8
Peterson - 5
Amla - 8.5
Kallis - 9.5
ABDV - 8.5
Rudolph - 6
Boucher - 7
Steyn - 9.5
Philander - 8.5
Morkel - 8
Tahir - 6

SA: 84.5

Strauss - 7
Cook - 9
Trott - 8.5
KP - 8.5
Bell - 8
Bairstow/Bopara - 5.5
Prior - 8.5
Bresnan - 7
Broad - 8
Swann - 8.5
Anderson - 9

Eng: 87.5

My take, from my ratings is that South Africa have the higher ranked players but England have greater consistency in their line up, especially in the batting where South Africa have their two obvious weak links in Rudolph and Alviro. For me, the key to the series will be how England cope with the new ball bowling of Steyn, Morkel and Philander. They can't allow them to gain inroads early or they will find batting really though, and then it will depend on how they bowl at the middle order of Amla, Kallis and ABDV. If two out of those three have big series it will be tough for England.

Test by test, I will look to a low scoring affair at Headingley first up with both batting units struggling with the oppositions bowling attack in tricky conditions and it could well come down to one player grinding out a tricky hundred in these conditions. I see England being the stronger at the Oval with spin playing a bigger part than at Headingley and Swann will have a big say on the outcome of the second match. And then at lords it will come down who can take 20 wickets on what is likely to be a flat wicket. I would make South Africa slight favourites for this match as they aren't as prone to collapse as England are, but the draw is favourite here. So my predicition... Head says 1-1, but my heart says 2-0 or 2-1 England! Come on!

*Players in bold are in my composite XI

JDizzle wrote:No Anderson Gregers? And I wondered how you had managed to fit in both Bell and ABDV until I worked out who you had dropped!

Smith - 8
Peterson - 5
Amla - 8.5
Kallis - 9.5
ABDV - 8.5
Rudolph - 6
Boucher - 7
Steyn - 9.5
Philander - 8.5
Morkel - 8
Tahir - 6

SA: 84.5

Strauss - 7
Cook - 9
Trott - 8.5
KP - 8.5
Bell - 8
Bairstow/Bopara - 5.5
Prior - 8.5
Bresnan - 7
Broad - 8
Swann - 8.5
Anderson - 9

Eng: 87.5

My take, from my ratings is that South Africa have the higher ranked players but England have greater consistency in their line up, especially in the batting where South Africa have their two obvious weak links in Rudolph and Alviro. For me, the key to the series will be how England cope with the new ball bowling of Steyn, Morkel and Philander. They can't allow them to gain inroads early or they will find batting really though, and then it will depend on how they bowl at the middle order of Amla, Kallis and ABDV. If two out of those three have big series it will be tough for England.

Test by test, I will look to a low scoring affair at Headingley first up with both batting units struggling with the oppositions bowling attack in tricky conditions and it could well come down to one player grinding out a tricky hundred in these conditions. I see England being the stronger at the Oval with spin playing a bigger part than at Headingley and Swann will have a big say on the outcome of the second match. And then at lords it will come down who can take 20 wickets on what is likely to be a flat wicket. I would make South Africa slight favourites for this match as they aren't as prone to collapse as England are, but the draw is favourite here. So my predicition... Head says 1-1, but my heart says 2-0 or 2-1 England! Come on!

*Players in bold are in my composite XI

mystiroakey wrote:its his opinion dude- or would you rather 200 posters come on and copy you?

Sorry but Jimmy simply has to be in a World XI atm, let alone an Eng-SA one.

Apart from that, I agree.

JD

Broad deserves a bit more than 8 on current form IMHO. Also a bit harsh on Alviro. He did score a hundred in his last test. Maybe 7? On par with Strauss, I'd guess

ok whilst everyone is ranking i will have a go.


Smith - 8
Peterson - 5
Amla - 9
Kallis - 9+1 because he is a true allrounder- so he gets a boni point
ABDV - 9
Rudolph - 7
Boucher - 5
Steyn - 9.5
Philander - 8.5
Morkel - 9
Tahir - 4

SA: 85

Strauss - 7.5+1- no'1 captain in the world so a boni point
Cook - 9
Trott - 9
KP - 9
Bell - 8
Bairstow- 3
Prior - 8
Bresnan - 7
Broad - 9
Swann - 9.5
Anderson - 9

Eng 89


broad ,swann and anderson are the better combo over morkel,stynn and tahir.

england can play pace all day in english coinditions- what other options do they have!!


i would say england are big favs in this series.. mainly because we are at home.

i am assuming we have one test at lords so i will go with a 2-0 win to england

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:JD

Broad deserves a bit more than 8 on current form IMHO. Also a bit harsh on Alviro. He did score a hundred in his last test. Maybe 7? On par with Strauss, I'd guess

Potentially Broad should be at least an 8.5. I think in hindsight he should perhaps be on the same level as Philander as their records are quite similar over the past year, and Broad has done it on tougher wickets in the UAE and one in Sri Lanka. Plus Broad offers more with the bat despite Philander have quite a decent first class record with it so maybe I have been a bit harsh on Broad.

Also maybe I've been a bit harsh on Alviro too, but I really don't think he is all that as a Test player. He does get sporadic hundreds, but there is not much consistency with him and I haven't been overly impressed when I have seen him play County Cricket either. I think, despite his run of form, Strauss is still a far better option at the top than Alviro so I'd have him at least a point better off so maybe 6/6.5 and 7/7.5 are more accurate.

Well done boys, you have shown solidarity in your selections.

Now SA can go out and prove you wrong

Gregers, I think your team is closest to mine

JD, think despite his decent recent form and consistency, Alastair Cook is rated a touch too high at 9 for me. He has had fair share of struggles, interestingly, in home conditions, when the balls does something. He has shown great ability to bounce back from such setbacks as well. However, I think I'll have him at least half a point less, particularly considering he will have to face up to one of the best bowling lineups in the world, unlike the case in last summer.

Any such England-South Africa XI would be similar to an England XI comprising of players who were born in South Africa such as Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Kieswetter, Prior, Lumb, Compton, Moore, Dernbach etc.

It is a fair criticism msp, and I did raise on another thread that I think he might have one or two troubles with Philander this series as Philander is a similar line and length with a little bit of nibble style of bowler to Asif, who gave Cook all sorts of problems. But I do think a 9 is fair for him considering how well he has played but perhaps I was a bit harsh on Amla and ABDV as I have them on a similar level to Cook but have marked them less and I wanted to show Cook was England's premier batsman at the moment, in my eyes, by giving him at least half a point more than KP and Trott.

I'd pick Bell ahead of Pietersen frankly - a far better test batsman in recent years.

amanuensis wrote:I'd pick Bell ahead of Pietersen frankly - a far better test batsman in recent years.

Exaggeration!

Why include Prior? As it is just 'fantasy' team, AB has proved able to keep wicket pretty well of late even if he doesn't do so regularly for the International side in Tests. And lets be honest, Prior is one of the weakest batsmen of most of these 11s.

shankythebiggestengfan

Bell over the last 3 years:

44 innings
8 hundreds
12 fifties
2281 runs @ 60.03

Pietersen over the last 3 years:

52 innings
4 hundreds
11 fifties
2205 runs @ 45.94

how many match winners?