England v West Indies, 2nd Test - Trent Bridge

First topic message reminder :

England unchanged. Rampaul and Shillingford in for the Windies.

Windies win the toss and will bat. A great toss to win - runs galore today.

martyr_94 wrote:He's a very frustrating batsmen Samuels don't you think?. Very nonchalant approach, sort of just dabs it away here and then with a couple of boundaries, very frustrating to watch, get's the job done. Sammy's technique also get's on my nerves, what's up with that front foot and arm movement with the bat?

Maybe so but its evidently quite effective. He's the Windies last hope of posting a half-decent total. If he can stick around they might get 200-250...especially if Sammy can keep him company for a while.

As frustrating as this is, 1 wicket until the tail.

Some good resistance from this pair. Good to see Strauss changing the ends of his bowlers: May not work, but intelligent captaincy.

Hmf. How long to the new ball? This is beginning to sound rather easy.

Yeh its a belter of a batting track so the fact that England have them 6 down for less than 200 is testament to how well they have bowled. It just so happens for once the Windies have a batsmen other than Chanders who has decided to stick in and build a score.

Thesetwo are going along rather nicely

I think the West Indies' current progress is evidence for the need to select Finn ahead of Bresnan or as a 5th bowler. Bresnan has been tidy but not overly threatening. At 130/6 the added pace of Finn could really have blown away Sammy and the tail. We should really go for the jugular in these situations and they could already be all out for under 200. Still well on top and a decent days' work but I feel we're now letting them off the hook somewhat.

Sammy has played with responsibility, massivvely high time he did it, admitedly grudging acknowledgement from my side.
But Sammy being Sammy, that one absolutely stupid shot should come any time. The longer he can prolong it, the better it is for his side, oh, just as I type, Sammy mindlessly trys to smash Swann out of the park and it falls in noman's land!!!!.

Going very nicely. Samuels is having a good series , second only to Chanderpaul , and the much maligned Sammy is supporting him well.
And they have got that scoring rate back up over three.

It does look an excellent battling track though so England will feel they can still have a good days work as long as they can break this stand. If a wicket falls before the new ball they might still be knocked over for 260 or so.
Which wouldn't be near enough.

This pitch is looking a 450 one so as frustrating as this is after tea, we have to remember bowling them out for 300 will be a success. 1 wicket will bring 2 so come on England!

Blimey, I pop out for half hour , get back nd windies are stuffing swann for six.

This looks bad. Flat pitch and a team smashing us around the park,

Yes at the start of the match you'd probably accept bowling them out for 300 if it were offered, looking at the pitch and the weather. However that would now be a massive disappointment after having them 6 down early on. Not far off 100 partnership now for these two, which is a shame after seeing the back of Chanderpaul and Ramdin so long ago. The next dimension this England side need to add is the capacity for a fifth bowler.

Must say well played Samuels though.

You cant help but admire what these two have done. The Windies were staring at being bowled out for under 200. Excellent fightback by them.

Worrying when a good bowling unit cannot even remove these two. They just Aren't very good if we're honest.

This period in the game and the pitch and weather tells me why Finn should have played. All of England's bowl at the same pace near enough and with no movement its pretty easy going for these two, not taking anything away they have batted superbly. Finns extra pace here would be ideal.

jeffwinger wrote:Yes at the start of the match you'd probably accept bowling them out for 300 if it were offered, looking at the pitch and the weather. However that would now be a massive disappointment after having them 6 down early on. Not far off 100 partnership now for these two, which is a shame after seeing the back of Chanderpaul and Ramdin so long ago. The next dimension this England side need to add is the capacity for a fifth bowler.

Must say well played Samuels though.

Doesn't take much to bring out the Five Bowlers lobby

Yeah it does look as though they need an extra bowler when a partnership develops on a flat track...and Trott looks very friendly as an option , I will admit.

But the ultimate test of a method is whether it works , and the current plan has worked very well for England for the last three years or so. I am still expecting it to work here also.

Sometimes your opponents bat well , as these two have done.

To be honest , the only way I would accept a switch to five bowlers is if a bowler with the batting skills of a Botham , or a Flintoff perhaps , emerged from the pack.

Not holding my breath.

Tbh I think its about time England played 2 specialist wicketkeepers

Lovely drive from Sammy to bring up the hundred partnership...

Not much happening for Swann at present. And fifty for the skipper !

Well batted Sammy

Well done Sammy. Windies huge favourites now. England just don't have what they need to bowl these two legends.

And now England will be chasing a score with their suspect batting and batting last on a match which helps later one. Got to be 1 all then in this series.

No top side in the world these generally go for a 5 bowler combination unless one of them happen to be a quality bat as well. England had the luxury when someone like a Fredye Flintoff was available. They now have some pretty decent all-rounder, Bresnan, Broad and Swann, but none can make it to the side as a real all-rounder.
Besides, the 4 bowler plan as Alfie suggests has worked for england.
Sammy gets to his 50 of 76 balls, should be his best test innings.

Looks a 400+ plus pitch for me if you get in and bat sensible. Also looks good value for runs if you play confidently also.

Does the pitch offer spin towards the end of the match or is it straight and true for 5 days?

I would not advocate a permanent switch to a five bowler policy, I just feel this squad need to experiment with that make up and be comfortable with it. As I have mentioned on another thread, the ideal situation for me would be a completely flexible squad with rotation of players and varying line ups dependant on the game situation.

I think this sort of situation is almost worse than conceding a big first innings score to a decent batting line up. If the pitch is flat and world class batsmen play well then there is nothing you can do. However if Darren Sammy passes 50 without looking in much difficulty you start to wonder whether there may be a different solution...

Swann is turining a few here, England will have to be careful against Shillingford, no worldbeater he is, but he is a decent spinner.

They look unmovable. I think 500 was right after all.

Eng will lose this one surely.

I do see where you're coming from , Jeff , with the horses for courses theory...

But I'm not convinced the added flexibility would offset the unsettling effect of changing the team around regularly. And the other problem is that even experts seem to have difficulty judging pitches in advance. I could see a fifth bowler having little to do on occasion when there is more life than expected...and I wonder if many people would have really felt this Trent Bridge wicket required more than three seamers and Swann before the start of play?

(I'll warrant no one did at tea time!)

Right new ball time = let's clean up!

These two look a class up. England are not going to have an easy couple of matches now, these guys have worked them out.

One seriously unlucky over for Anderson !

Sammy ends up with two boundaries ...either of which might just as easily have gone to hand ... And survives a very close lbw...

Sammy's day

Sammy is a lucky man, it so flat it makes him look much better than he is. He has had so may lucky boundaries. England must be fuming, windies to win with our flimsy batting.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Sammy is a lucky man, it so flat it makes him look much better than he is. He has had so may lucky boundaries. England must be fuming, windies to win with our flimsy batting.

Hey trebs , are your hexes losing their power? Long time since you took a wicket I fear ...Is it possible you have worn them out with overuse ?

Recharge those batteries , we need a wicket here...

The heat has done for me alfie.

Might be the heat has done for Broad too ...he was good early today but has been a bit wayward in this session.
Both Jimmy and he looking a bit frustrated.

Got to congratulate West Indies though : Samuels has been rock solid and Sammy is playing a real Captains Innings...

They will get a half decent score now , and England will need to bat well , as they have to bat last , and this pitch may be harder to bat on than the last one on day five.

Sammy enjoying this : faces Jimmy , play and miss , play and miss ... And then he plays a nice drive for four...

150 partnership !

And we thought getting Chanderpaul was the problem

Windies

Anyne else worried our batting won't cope with this? We're a poor side with the bat on a regular basis.

At the risk of hexing England , trebs , I reckon they'll make 500 on this track...

Beginning to wonder what West Indies are going to make though

700 at least for windies.

Eh, with respect to the Windies, the 2 times they've batted well so far they've had perfect batting conditions.

Century for Samuels

Well played !

Has turned the day around with his skipper , so West Indies can claim to have the better of day one...

Indeed.

WUAHAHAHAHAHA ENGLAND ARE GONNA GET BATTERED - BOTH THESE GUYS WILL NOT GET OUT TODAY AND WILL MAKE DOUBLE TONS THEN ENGLAND WILL COLLAPSE. (Just a little moral support Treb)

Best session West Indies have had in England for a few years ...

304/6 so England have work to do tomorrow.

,
See you all tomorrow chaps.

Exactly .. Thank you.

Cheers Alfie.

the windies are really coming along i tell ya- good batters in there side.. I cant see them getting a win v us- but they are showing alot of batting promise- if they could only bowl hey!!

Very frustrating final session there from an English perspective. Credit to Samuels and Sammy for the way that they batted, but I can't help but be disappointed with the way England bowled in the final session, especially to Sammy.

Granted it's a lovely batting track in glorious sunshine, but the england attack seemed happy to be dictated to by Sammy. Swann in particular showed him far too much respect when bowling to him. Very unusual for Swanny to not rise to the challenge when someone tries to get after him.

A terrific say for the West Indies, the one session just took it away from the English. Samuels and Sammy have played quite a positive game, put the pressure right back on the England bowlers, and took a lost day away from them.
Come to think of this, West Indies have gone passed 300 without a massive contribution from Shivnarine Chanderpaul. Now that doesn't really happen much often!.
Darren Sammy, one of my least favorit players, have played a fine knock. There were the mad swing from time to time, but some of the shots he played were terrific. This in fact is his first captain's innings in test match. He made a fighting 84 against the Australians recently in an ODI match, but regularly gave away his wicket for free after playing some fine shots. Never really stuck around long enough to make an impact. But all those issues have been put aside today, and hats of for that.
I still remain extremely critical of his politicising the rejion's cricket so badly and for playing along with the idiotic WICB, but consistent performances like this, he can justify his position in the side, and win for himself a lot more credibility as player and captain.

Marlon Samuels have had 2 good games back to back, and that in itself is newsworthy. Unlike Sammy, His tallent wasn't questioned much, but he failed to consistently back that potential with actual performance. A fine hundred from Marlon, a few terrific shots, particularly against Swann. Had his edegy moments, but fought it out and came out on top, in the past he would have played some stupid shot then and got out.

England's bowling worked fine in the morning, but the moment the West Indies brought about some sense in their shot selection they started struggling Anderson was good as ever, in the first spel, but couldn't really maintain the same kind of pressure throughout. Swann did turn a few and got the massive wicket of Chanderpaul. Broad didn't have the best of days particularly going by recent form, and Bresnan again didn't look like he would run through any side.
One thing is sure, England will have a fight on their hand in this game. West Indies still can fold for a total that won't be huge, and this track doesn't look all that threatening for the batters, although for those bowlers who are willing to bend their back, there is something in it, and there might just be some turn. The WI have Shillingford in their ranks, and England will have to fight for the remaining wickets, I have a feeling the tail will be more tough to get done ith unlike in the last match, as both Ravi Rampaul and Shane Shillingford are decent enough to bat 9 and 10.

One good thing about this English bowling unit is that usually they won't let the opposition score far too many even if there is a bit of a partnership. But in this last session, that also didn't work, they went for far too many without a wicket. Fine batting from Samuels and Sammy, but fair to say the England bowling unit really struggled, for a change. Think surely they have to look at options, most likely Steve Finn, sooner rather than later.

Oh deary me. Looks like the pitch has become a batter's paradise.

Congrats to Samuels on his ton. Looks like Sammy will be getting his tomorrow. Who'd have thought the Windies would be on course for 350-400 after the morning session?

Things gone badly awry for Strauss and co...they need to knock over these last 4 wickets pretty sharpish if they're to keep any kind of control on the game.

Evening chaps. Been a while!

I'm going tomorrow to Trent bridge and have to say, thanks to these two, am thoroughly looking forward to a great day's play!