Froch-Bute official fight thread

by Sugar Floyd Louis Sat 26 May 2012, 11:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Less than an hour to go...

Common sense tells me Bute has got this but I just have a funny feeling it may be Froch's night!!!

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:21 pm

azania wrote:Ward is the World Champion. The rest are belt-holders. Ergo paper champion. No disrespect to Carl, but it is what it is.

Agree. The should be only one champion per weight. And in the case of SMW its Ward who is da man

by BoxingFan88 Sun 27 May 2012, 12:21 pm

Froch lost a close fight in Denmark.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:23 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:Froch lost a close fight in Denmark.

Wasnt that close Kessler was a clear winner

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 27 May 2012, 12:25 pm

azania wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:I find it difficult to call Froch a paper champion when he consistently takes on the very best, Ward is without doubt the main man but Froch is a very deserving and willing champion. A paper champion wouldn't seek out rematches against the two men who beat him.

Ward is the World Champion. The rest are belt-holders. Ergo paper champion. No disrespect to Carl, but it is what it is.

That isn't a paper champion, Stieglitz is a paper champion, someone who has never tested himself and has a world title to his name, Froch tests himself over and over again.

by J.Benson II Sun 27 May 2012, 12:27 pm

azania wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:
Steffan wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:As for Bute, he should go back to fighting pasties in Montreal. Obviously he can't deal with anyone who punches back
Calm down. Bute is still a good fighter. His chin is clearly not that good though. But 'pasties' is harsh

I know its harsh but I feel a bit let down by Bute. I actually rated him quite highly before this fight and was one of the few that defended him against his critics. However, after yesterday's performance it's obvious that his critics were 100% right. The guy was just a protected paper champ who isn't in the same league as the likes of Froch, Kessler and Ward.
He just looked so fragile and lightweight. Everytime Froch applied pressure, Bute turned to jelly. It was like watching a grown man beating up a teenager.

Yep. I agree. I defended him against the crowd. But that's taking the benefit of the doubt away from Froch. He was allowed to perform as best he could because Carl was damn good on the night. Not a protected paper champ, but a good fighter who got beat by a better fighter.

Froch is also a paper champ btw. But a fine fighter.

I agree. Props to Froch who showed that he's still a very tough and under-rated fighter.

I think the manner of the loss is what disappointed me about Bute. I wasn't surprised to see him lose but was genuinely shocked to see how easily he folded under pressure. I know his durability has been questioned in the past, not only against Andrade but also in the amateurs when he got KTFO against Golovkin. However, I put that down to inexperience. But now its plain to see that he just isn't capable of taking world class punches.

Agree with your last point to an extent. While Froch deserves his title, Ward is the only true champ at SMW.
The term paper champ is slightly unfair though. I tend to reserve it more for fighters that capture a belt under dubious circumstances and defend it against unworthy opposition.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:28 pm

If you aint Andre Ward you aint no one at SMW except Kessler who has lost only to HOF fighters

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 12:32 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:
azania wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:I find it difficult to call Froch a paper champion when he consistently takes on the very best, Ward is without doubt the main man but Froch is a very deserving and willing champion. A paper champion wouldn't seek out rematches against the two men who beat him.

Ward is the World Champion. The rest are belt-holders. Ergo paper champion. No disrespect to Carl, but it is what it is.

That isn't a paper champion, Stieglitz is a paper champion, someone who has never tested himself and has a world title to his name, Froch tests himself over and over again.

All the belt holders are paper champions and Ward IS the World Champion. That is how is should be. Yes Froch has tested himself. He came up short against the World Champion. Now because he won a belt, it doesn't mean he's the world champion. That honour belongs to Ward.

Froch is not seeking a rematch with Ward. He said it will make for a boring fight due to styles. He's being diplomatic there and I'll forgive him for that. He knows Ward is the better fighter and the world champion.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:33 pm

Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 12:38 pm

Steffan wrote:Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

In a nutshell. I think people are jumping on the hype train and displaying lateral thinking. Froch is good. Very good. But second or third best in his division. There's only one champion. For the sake of boxing if Froch fights Steiglitz, I would hope Steiglitz wins to set up a match with Ward to decide who the very best is. Personally I would want froch to win and he should.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:40 pm

azania wrote:
Steffan wrote:Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

In a nutshell. I think people are jumping on the hype train and displaying lateral thinking. Froch is good. Very good. But second or third best in his division. There's only one champion. For the sake of boxing if Froch fights Steiglitz, I would hope Steiglitz wins to set up a match with Ward to decide who the very best is. Personally I would want froch to win and he should.

I hope Steiglitz would beat the hell out of Froch but it wouldnt happen though im counting on Kessler to do the double on him this time in England

by Duty281 Sun 27 May 2012, 12:42 pm

Froch easily has a better legacy than Calzaghe now; Froch has fought the very best and often come out victorious. Kessler and Ward two defeats yes, but beaten Dirrell, beaten Pascal, beaten Abraham, beaten Taylor, beaten Bute and beaten Johnson. Fought five of those names on away turf and came out with victory three times. Carl Froch majestic and a true champion. Get the rematch with Kessler, beat him then get a rematch with Ward and smack him around and his legacy would be complete.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:Get the rematch with Kessler, beat him then get a rematch with Ward and smack him around

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 12:43 pm

Well Kessler won their fight. I reckon he would do the same again. His straight punches are very effective. I'd like to see Froch rematch Dirrell. I had Dirrell winning their first fight in what was a hometown decision.

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 12:45 pm

Duty281 wrote:Froch easily has a better legacy than Calzaghe now; Froch has fought the very best and often come out victorious. Kessler and Ward two defeats yes, but beaten Dirrell, beaten Pascal, beaten Abraham, beaten Taylor, beaten Bute and beaten Johnson. Fought five of those names on away turf and came out with victory three times. Carl Froch majestic and a true champion. Get the rematch with Kessler, beat him then get a rematch with Ward and smack him around and his legacy would be complete.

Add the hometown decision against Dirrell.

But can I have some of what you've been smoking. I like your delusional style.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:46 pm

azania wrote:Well Kessler won their fight. I reckon he would do the same again. His straight punches are very effective. I'd like to see Froch rematch Dirrell. I had Dirrell winning their first fight in what was a hometown decision.

Not so much hometown decision Dirrell was totally robbed. Everyone is so keen for Kessler to come to England why doesnt Froch go to Amreica and take on Dirrell its exactly the same situation

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:47 pm

azania wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Froch easily has a better legacy than Calzaghe now; Froch has fought the very best and often come out victorious. Kessler and Ward two defeats yes, but beaten Dirrell, beaten Pascal, beaten Abraham, beaten Taylor, beaten Bute and beaten Johnson. Fought five of those names on away turf and came out with victory three times. Carl Froch majestic and a true champion. Get the rematch with Kessler, beat him then get a rematch with Ward and smack him around and his legacy would be complete.

Add the hometown decision against Dirrell.

But can I have some of what you've been smoking. I like your delusional style.

Go easy on him Az these crack cocaine addicts are a bit fiery at times

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 12:50 pm

Steffan wrote:
azania wrote:Well Kessler won their fight. I reckon he would do the same again. His straight punches are very effective. I'd like to see Froch rematch Dirrell. I had Dirrell winning their first fight in what was a hometown decision.
Not so much hometown decision Dirrell was totally robbed. Everyone is so keen for Kessler to come to England why doesnt Froch go to Amreica and take on Dirrell its exactly the same situation

It looks like the Froch hype train has left the station and is catching up with the Price hype train. I like Froch but retain some perspective.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 12:53 pm

azania wrote:It looks like the Froch hype train has left the station and is catching up with the Price hype train. I like Froch but retain some perspective.

Get with the programme Az. Froch is gonna destroy Kessler and Ward in rematches and Price is gonna spark out Wlad and Vitali in the same night

by Duty281 Sun 27 May 2012, 12:55 pm

Of course, Dirrell was robbed against Froch. That's the same Andre Dirrell who ran away and retreated like a Frenchman. The same Andre Dirrell who had to be chased before he would fight. The same Andre Dirrell who only started boxing in the 11th and 12th round.

by **88Chris05** Sun 27 May 2012, 12:55 pm

Great. Once again, what should be a moment of high praise for Froch turns in to another Calzaghe debate. Christ....

If Carl hard done his old "I want Calzagheah!" routine afterwards I could half understand, but there was nothing even approaching that. Give it a rest, lads.

by Duty281 Sun 27 May 2012, 1:04 pm

No worries 88Chris05, there is no debate after last night Wink

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 1:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:Of course, Dirrell was robbed against Froch. That's the same Andre Dirrell who ran away and retreated like a Frenchman. The same Andre Dirrell who had to be chased before he would fight. The same Andre Dirrell who only started boxing in the 11th and 12th round.

Yes the same one who would have got the decision everywhere else but Notts.

Credit to Carl. He did a serious number on Bute. Litterally showed Bute his Bute. But lets not ger carried away. He has fought the best, beat most of them but came up short a couple of times.

The thing I like about Froch is that he doesn't look to boxing politics. He looks for the best and not afraid to take them on.

by Strongback Sun 27 May 2012, 1:29 pm

I see there's a bit of banter around the net along the lines that Barry Hearns could quite easily have got Froch disqualified for getting up on the apron while the ref was still giving Bute a count.

The ref looked to have waved his hands in the air to call the fight off only to then give Bute a count. Apparently Rob McCracken can be seen shouting at Hearn to get out of the ring. A bit of inexperience shown by Eddie as well as it being a fairly cringeworthy display.

On the fight itself:

I got this one totally wrong. I thought Froch would be stalking Bute, instead Froch moved back and sideways making Bute come onto him.

Froch showed a lot more experience than Bute and dictated the fight. Carl has all the little fouls and tricks of an old pro although in saying that he got away with a lot of hitting on the break.

Ultimately though it was the power of Froch's punches that undid Bute. The former champ just looked in trouble every time he was hit cleanly. Bute just isn't tough enough and his lack of proper fight experience clearly showed.

Congrats to those who predicted the Froch KO win.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 27 May 2012, 1:59 pm

People may have predicted a KO win for Froch but not like that. Most people thought he would take him late and finish the job Andrade did. That was a demolition.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 27 May 2012, 2:14 pm

Steffan wrote:Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

Is Vitali Klitschko a paper champion then?

Who was the paper champion at WW, Mayweather or Pac?

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 2:15 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
Steffan wrote:Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

Is Vitali Klitschko a paper champion then?

Who was the paper champion at WW, Mayweather or Pac?

Nah Vitali Klitschko is the best at heavyweight in my opinion. Pac is the paper champion. Mayweather da man

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 27 May 2012, 2:18 pm

Steffan wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
Steffan wrote:Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

Is Vitali Klitschko a paper champion then?

Who was the paper champion at WW, Mayweather or Pac?
Nah Vitali Klitschko is the best at heavyweight in my opinion. Pac is the paper champion. Mayweather da man

Right, so Froch joins Wladimir Klitschko and Manny Pacquiao as paper champions.

by Steffan Sun 27 May 2012, 2:19 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
Steffan wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
Steffan wrote:Anyone who is not the main man at the weight is a paper champion so to suggest that Froch is not a paper champion is ridiculous

Is Vitali Klitschko a paper champion then?

Who was the paper champion at WW, Mayweather or Pac?
Nah Vitali Klitschko is the best at heavyweight in my opinion. Pac is the paper champion. Mayweather da man

Right, so Froch joins Wladimir Klitschko and Manny Pacquiao as paper champions.

Well if you aint the main man at the weight then yes you are a paper champion so Froch does join them

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 27 May 2012, 2:20 pm

azania wrote:
Steffan wrote:
azania wrote:Well Kessler won their fight. I reckon he would do the same again. His straight punches are very effective. I'd like to see Froch rematch Dirrell. I had Dirrell winning their first fight in what was a hometown decision.
Not so much hometown decision Dirrell was totally robbed. Everyone is so keen for Kessler to come to England why doesnt Froch go to Amreica and take on Dirrell its exactly the same situation

It looks like the Froch hype train has left the station and is catching up with the Price hype train. I like Froch but retain some perspective.

Froch is completely deserving of the hype.

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 2:25 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:
azania wrote:
Steffan wrote:
azania wrote:Well Kessler won their fight. I reckon he would do the same again. His straight punches are very effective. I'd like to see Froch rematch Dirrell. I had Dirrell winning their first fight in what was a hometown decision.
Not so much hometown decision Dirrell was totally robbed. Everyone is so keen for Kessler to come to England why doesnt Froch go to Amreica and take on Dirrell its exactly the same situation

It looks like the Froch hype train has left the station and is catching up with the Price hype train. I like Froch but retain some perspective.

Froch is completely deserving of the hype.

For someone who is 2nd or 3rd best at his weight, he is deserving the hype. He's earned it.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 27 May 2012, 2:30 pm

Froch is second at SM only to Andre Ward, who is probably the next long reigning P4P#1. Froch's recent record of fighting only quality proven world calss fighters makes some previous Brit champs resumes (mentioning no names) look empty.

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 2:52 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Froch is second at SM only to Andre Ward, who is probably the next long reigning P4P#1. Froch's recent record of fighting only quality proven world calss fighters makes some previous Brit champs resumes (mentioning no names) look empty.

Kessler is ahead of him. Until Froch beats him, he'll be ranked below him.

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 27 May 2012, 3:05 pm

Kessler has only had one fight at SM in the last 2 years, and that was against Mehdi Bouadla!!!! No way is he rated above Froch.

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 3:08 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Kessler has only had one fight at SM in the last 2 years, and that was against Mehdi Bouadla!!!! No way is he rated above Froch.

Until Carl reverses the loss he should remain below Kessler. Wasn't Kessler's inactivity due to him being injured?

by Mayweathers cellmate Sun 27 May 2012, 3:13 pm

Doesn't Kessler campaign at 175 nowadays?

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 3:14 pm

He's had one fight at 175. If he remains there then Carl will be the second best at the weight.

by samevans1 Sun 27 May 2012, 3:22 pm

Froch was superb.

What a warrior and a credit to the sport.

by Josiah Maiestas Sun 27 May 2012, 3:29 pm

Kessler has a lot more to prove than Froch, most boxing fans will have forgotten the 1st fight between them, which I thought should have been a draw, either way Froch would have to be favourite regardless of the result many moons ago!

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 3:35 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Kessler has a lot more to prove than Froch, most boxing fans will have forgotten the 1st fight between them, which I thought should have been a draw, either way Froch would have to be favourite regardless of the result many moons ago!

What? How can they be boxing fans if they forget the first fight? I had Kes winning a close fight. Great fight though.

On yesterday's performance Carl would be favourite. But Kes is for Bute and is a proven fighter who beat a peak Froch. Its a pick em.

by samevans1 Sun 27 May 2012, 3:41 pm

Froch would be favourite for sure; but Kessler is too good a fighter to write off.

by AlexHuckerby Sun 27 May 2012, 4:27 pm

Totally, totally proven so wrong, but so happy about it!!

When it comes to putting Calzaghes legacy and Frochs legacy next to each other, Calzaghes wins, but the person who gets much more respect from me is Froch with the way he's gone about his career, Calzaghe had too many stay at home fights and didn't fight enough quality. Pure and simple, his record doesn't command as much respect although being better.

by azania Sun 27 May 2012, 6:24 pm

alma wrote:
azania wrote:He's had one fight at 175. If he remains there then Carl will be the second best at the weight.

he only weighed 169 though

Good. Looks like a match with Carl can be easily made and no weight making issues.

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