Ospreys, are the rest of you watching ?

With the results of Ospreys last two games I wonder if the rest of the European rugby community are starting to take notice of them. Lets not forget, the Ospreys are in the third seedings group, so by that knowledge they should be a little easier to beat than a tier one or two side. Do any supporters of other clubs/regions/provinces worry that they might draw them in one of your HC pools or are you not that worried either way ? I for one think that the Ospreys will be looking to make inroads at the next HC, and they rightly should be as well, I have said all along since Scott Johnson and Sean Holly left that there could be something special about this side, I just hope they prove me right next season.

I wouldn't like Leinster to get the Ospreys as a 3rd seed team,they're definitely one of the stronger ones but would still expect to beat them at home and get at least a losing bonus point away.

LordDowlais wrote:With the results of Ospreys last two games I wonder if the rest of the European rugby community are starting to take notice of them.

Yes... we're not blind you know? You don't have to shout it from the roof tops.... ...

Needless article. Not a fair reflection of Ospreys fans. I, like many other Ospreys fans are happy with the performance but don't want to make out that we suddenly think we're HC winning material. Let's see what next season brings and enjoy our victory with a bit of class, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

Good man George have a , I expect big things in Europe next year sir

Congratulations on the pro12 win though I think you'll be pretty pleased to be avoiding my side next season.

Yes I am pleased to avoid you though.

Ospreys area good side and along with Saracens are the 3rd seed others want to avoid.

They are the 2nd best team in the Pro 12 and the best Welsh side.

It'll be a tough League, Leinster, Ospreys, Munster and Ulster are capable on winning the H-cup, and add Scarlets and Glasgow to be league contenders, it's nearly anyones to win

I think the Ospreys need to prove they are good in the HEC 1st before they can be talked about as potential winners. I mean they could be drawn with Leinster, Clermont and Exeter in their group which to be fair would be a struggle for all the teams to get out of as only 1 team would IMO qualify from that group.

The problem the Ospreys (and the Scarlets) have is that being 3rd seed it's going to be hard to get out of the groups and improve their seeding for next year - even with some big scalps like the Scarlets have had or playing well like the Ospreys have in some HEC games.

Kingshu I wouldn't go as far as saying Ospreys are capable of winning the H-cup just yet!

They have done really well in the Pro12 but have yet to really shine in the HC. I don't think they have one HC semi to their name.

I think the O's dream group IMO would be: Biarritz,Edinburgh,O's,Exeter.

Though it could also be Saints,Edinburgh,O's,Castres which again would give O's a decent shot.

beshocked wrote:Kingshu I wouldn't go as far as saying Ospreys are capable of winning the H-cup just yet!

Yeah I don't see why not. I think the key for them is keeping that tight 5 fit because they have a pack that can compete with anyone. They have very dangerous backs, an aggressive defence and a very good place kicker.

They wouldn't be up there with Leinster and Clermont for me but they'd certainly be dark horses and one of the leading contenders in the chasing batch to snatch Leinsters crown.

I'm not sure how great their depth is though and they need to build that KO rugby experience that the top European teams have. They need to be getting into the KO stages of the tournament though, anything else should be deemed a failure.

rodders wrote:

beshocked wrote:Kingshu I wouldn't go as far as saying Ospreys are capable of winning the H-cup just yet!

Yeah I don't see why not. I think the key for them is keeping that tight 5 fit because they have a pack that can compete with anyone. They have very dangerous backs, an aggressive defence and a very good place kicker.

They wouldn't be up there with Leinster and Clermont for me but they'd certainly be dark horses and one of the leading contenders in the chasing batch to snatch Leinsters crown.

I'm not sure how great their depth is though and they need to build that KO rugby experience that the top European teams have. They need to be getting into the KO stages of the tournament though, anything else should be deemed a failure.

I think it all depends on their group - if they can get out of their (in all likelihood tough) group then they'll could well be the dark horse bet to win. Certainly they can beat the Leinster, Munster, Leicesters of the world in one off games.

rodders I think the O's a good side but from my perspective I haven't seen anything in their European form which suggests they'll be up there.

Maybe it's simply because the O's haven't fared well vs my team.

The O's didn't have the easiest pool but should have performed better IMO.

No not on European form Beshocked but based on their league form, a particularly their last 2 games they have underachieved in Europe.

They certainly are one of the more complete teams around right now.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons and run..... maybe the Ospreys and Welsh teams put the English, and maybe even French, teams on a pedestal and have a bit more of a psychological block against these sides, whereas a lot of the Welsh players have a superiority complex over the Irish teams right now.......

Is it true they have sold over 5000 season tickets already???

Rodders I do understand your viewpoint. As a Pro12 fan and Irish man you are going to rate the O's chances more. They have done very well in the Pro12 and have been very good against the Irish sides as you say.

I agree that they have the potential to be very dangerous but have not yet lived up to the hype/expectation heaped upon them.

Now they are the Pro12 champs again the weight of expectation could be detrimental to their efforts.

I wouldn't say Cardiff have a psychological block, neither do Scarlets but I do think that the O's do. Personally I believe Ospreys have the most potential of the Welsh sides to do well in the HC but suffer mentally. Harsh possibly but the O's lose matches they think they should be winning.

Cardiff are like Biarritz, teams you wouldn't expect to be in the European mix but always seem to pop up there somehow. They defy their league form time and again.

Brilliant game yesterday and what a finale.
Thought the Os were magnificent.

Really Dave, I though they made some huge mistakes. 2 lineouts in goal area 1 led to a try, the Nacewa restart debacle and the back 3 in general being very poor.

The O's pack is up there with the best in europe, they just need some cutting edge and to be consistant!

rodders wrote:No not on European form Beshocked but based on their league form, a particularly their last 2 games they have underachieved in Europe.

They certainly are one of the more complete teams around right now.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons and run..... maybe the Ospreys and Welsh teams put the English, and maybe even French, teams on a pedestal and have a bit more of a psychological block against these sides, whereas a lot of the Welsh players have a superiority complex over the Irish teams right now.......

I think the Welsh put the French on a pedestal - the English to a certain extent, but not recently as the Scarlets have beaten the Saints and LI, Ospreys have beaten a fair few English teams in recent years and the Blues have beaten LI and another team (the team escapes me).

But I think the reason the Welsh teams don't put the Irish on a pedestal as much is because we face the Irish every few games and have gotten to know them very well and have beaten them on and off over the past seasons.

Scarlets problems however are more to do with the absence of a front 5 (see our game away to Leicester) which hasn't allowed us to compete effectively against the very best (though we have come very close to getting out of some very tough groups). The Blues have done pretty well in Europe generally (though not excellent), and the Ospreys for some reason have always struggled - which has meant low seedings leading to tougher groups and a sort of vicious circle.

beshocked wrote:
I agree that they have the potential to be very dangerous but have not yet lived up to the hype/expectation heaped upon them.

Totally agree but I think they should and could do better than they have done. League and European form don't always correlate but the Ospreys have the makings of a potentially very good European side.

If they play as they have in the last two games then they will do well in Europe next season I think.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Really Dave, I though they made some huge mistakes. 2 lineouts in goal area 1 led to a try, the Nacewa restart debacle and the back 3 in general being very poor.

The O's pack is up there with the best in europe, they just need some cutting edge and to be consistant!

Magnificent meaning for all their mistakes, individual errors and the scrum debacle, they still managed to dig deep and turned over the Euro champs on their own patch.

Rodders my point is that Ospreys don't deserve to be seen as contenders unless they back up the hype/expectation. If they reach the HC semi they'll be strong challengers.

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/ospreys.php?section=4

Very interesting HC head to head stats.

Most surprisingly Ospreys have lost to a Scottish side twice. 2-0 against in that head to head.

7 wins vs 6 losses against English sides

Fair enough Beshocked I'm not in disagreement with you. Based on European form they don't deserve to be seen as contenders.

All I'm saying is that they need to start backing their league form up in Europe and if they can then they can do well next season.

Rodders I think we are in agreement.

It's interesting looking at the stats I think one reason English sides might also have a poor record against the Irish sides is because they get less practice.

The Ospreys should now have the confidence when facing an Irish side in the HC. Unfortunately this season they didn't draw one.

Of course the matters get a lot more complicated if we talk about hypothetical groups.

They have a good enough squad to challenge in Europe. They have had for years. But probably not the experience of the latter rounds yet. As a Leinster fan we're at the stage where we don't mind who we get in the pool stage. I think we might want to get the Ospreys actually. Then we'll have four chances for revenge in the league and HC next year.

I'd say the most likely team to put a new name on the HC is Clermont. And they came very close this year. Saracens and Ospreys can have legitimate cause for optimism too.

Feckless Rogue as a Saracens fan I am not very optimistic till we show can beat Clermont or Leinster, let alone both.

Interesting you mention Clermont. They are one of those teams who has been knocking on the door for the last 3 years. They are normally one of the favourites yet they have only been in one semi final (this season) and have fallen at the quarter final stages a few times.

Will next year be time they come of age?

They got the luck of the draw this year beshocked. If you want to win this cup these days you're gonna have to beat Leinster. They got the best chance by drawing them in a semi final in France. And they fell short by an agonizing inch. This year they let a big chance just slip out of their hands (literally).

Congratulations Ospreys! I hope you make our HEC pool as I think that would have some great rugby

Feckless Rogue you definitely don't want Clermont and Leinster x2 in the pool stages.

I have a bad feeling we'll be paired with one of you again.

What better way for Ospreys to show their HC credentials than drawing both Leinster and Clermont in the pool stages?

beshocked wrote:Feckless Rogue you definitely don't want Clermont and Leinster x2 in the pool stages.

I have a bad feeling we'll be paired with one of you again.

What better way for Ospreys to show their HC credentials than drawing both Leinster and Clermont in the pool stages?

If they beat both of those in the groups then they deserve to win it!

They will get out of their group next year, of that I am sure.

Not if you are drawn with Leinster and Leicester you wont.

LordDowlais wrote:They will get out of their group next year, of that I am sure.

Biarritz might also have something to say about that too.

Bring em on.

Just out of interest... how many triumphant threads were there about Munster and what they could achieve in Europe when they beat Leinster last year to win the Rabo final?....... .......

What does Pride come before again................

"...because most of the time less than 10,000 of us are even when were winning"

The Heineken seedings are rubbish. Ospreys are the best Welsh side and Scarlets second but both are in the 3rd tier but the Blues are in the top tier, on the basis of finishing second in what was by far the weakest group!

In fact with the exception of Leinster, the second tier looks stronger than the top!

The seedings need to reflect the previous seasons performance in Europe and Domestic leagues.....!

Seagultaf wrote:The Heineken seedings are rubbish. Ospreys are the best Welsh side and Scarlets second but both are in the 3rd tier but the Blues are in the top tier, on the basis of finishing second in what was by far the weakest group!

In fact with the exception of Leinster, the second tier looks stronger than the top!

The seedings need to reflect the previous seasons performance in Europe and Domestic leagues.....!

Cardiff are not a top seed because they finished 2nd in the weakest group last year.
They are in the 1st tier because of their performances in the last 4 years in the HC.

That includes a HC SF and winning the Amlin - something neither Ospreys or Scarlets have done.
Scarlets and Ospreys want a better seeding - get better results in Europe.

It really is very simple

If looks won a race............. well, he did at the weekend (Camelot) so scrap that wise saying.

But I'll continue my point anyway, it doesn't really matter how the sides 'look' or what pool they are in at this point in the year. I know it's just chat but a lot of rugby will be played between now and then and ups and downs in form and injury make it a lottery at this point. Leinster always say it... you don't defend anything, you just start at the beginning as everyone does and see how the pools turn out. Nothing is preordained, certainly nothing is written based on this year's form from any side.

To be honest I think the Ospreys fans are entitled to some optimism. Although I'm not sure they have the squad depth to triumph in the HC. They're good enough to give a good account of themselves and maybe reach a semi, which would be progress.

If there's gonna be a new HC winner, it'll probably be Clermont. With Ospreys or Saracens the next most likely

geoff998rugby wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:The Heineken seedings are rubbish. Ospreys are the best Welsh side and Scarlets second but both are in the 3rd tier but the Blues are in the top tier, on the basis of finishing second in what was by far the weakest group!

In fact with the exception of Leinster, the second tier looks stronger than the top!

The seedings need to reflect the previous seasons performance in Europe and Domestic leagues.....!

Cardiff are not a top seed because they finished 2nd in the weakest group last year.
They are in the 1st tier because of their performances in the last 4 years in the HC.

That includes a HC SF and winning the Amlin - something neither Ospreys or Scarlets have done.
Scarlets and Ospreys want a better seeding - get better results in Europe.

It really is very simple

That is exacly my issue, seedings are based on performances 3 & 4 years ago which bear no relation to current form. Cardiff Blues are the top rated Welsh side but third in terms of form in past two seasons. I have no doubt that whilst most teams supporters will be wishing for the Blues as their Tier 1 group selection but hoping to avoid the Ospreys as the Tier 3 group pick.

Seedings need to be based on performance in Europe and Domestic leauges in the past season, that would be far more relevant and make for a fairer and more competitive competition.

I think going back only 1 season is going too far the other way.

A weighted system would seem like a decent compromise