Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, I wouldn't get impatient with people for having to post things 3 times. People must have posted the same thing to you at least 50 times and you are none the wiser..

Sin mate, read what Boyne has said again. It makes perfect sense to me but once again you don't seem able to repond to a specific point with a specific answer.

No one asked you who you would select, so I don't know why you need to repost it.

Boyne is pointing out that no one is arguing for Tuohys inclusion at Ryans expense so why are you comparing them?

rodders wrote:Football Association?

no.

Buckley never had form in the scrum though did he?

I mean, 6ft 5’ is clearly too tall for a prop. Just about the right size for a second row though.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Would you really want Buckley there as a replacement,the man was never able to get a consistent run of form and anytime he looked like finally doing it he was struck down by illness or injury.

Buckley would have been brilliant off the bench for both Munster and Ireland (when the 23 man squads come in).

No he wouldn't. He's dire.

Still streets ahead of anything Leinster have produced (which is sweet FA).

Cian Healy?

Don't ever recall seeing Healy play TH prop. Is he any good?

Edit - Luke Fitzgerald's dad is probably the last decent prop Leinster have produced (back in the early '80s).]

OH right you meant TH. No we haven't produced one of them, we bought ours from Harlequins. He's Irish though, which helps. How's Munster's cheque book holding up these days, with John Afoa Lite and his little sister on your team you must be happy enough.

Mickado wrote:OH right you meant TH. No we haven't produced one of them, we bought ours from Harlequins. He's Irish though, which helps. How's Munster's cheque book holding up these days, with John Afoa Lite and his little sister on your team you must be happy enough.

As I said, chequebook. Not able to produce one for yourselves. The Chelsea of rugby.

just like Munster and centers.

The Toulon of Ireland, spend big, can't win feic all

Save Tokula

Rava wrote:So now that the squad has been finalised here is my team for the First Test.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Fitzpatrick (Give Ross some additional time to recover)
4. Tuohy
5. Ryan
6. SOB
7. POM
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan (Most likely will be Murray but would like to see the Leinster pair start together)
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. BOD
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Loughney
18. McCarthy
19. Henry
20. Murray
21. ROG
22. McFadden/Zebo

That's pretty much exactly what I would pick

How can a team that have brought through Healy, toner, sob, Heaslip, mclaughlin, sexton, madigan, McFadden, bod, D'arcy, Kearney x2, cooney into the HEC final from their academy be likened to Chelsea.

Couple that to the fact that mike Ross, Leo Cullen and Shane Jennings wouldn't have got within an arses roar of the Ireland squad in the last few years unless they improved themselves at Leinster. That's 16 out of 23 and not mentioning Cronin and reddan as other Irish. So 18 IQ and one soon to be IQ. Really don't get the comparison with chelsea.

Standulstermen wrote:How can a team that have brought through Healy, toner, sob, Heaslip, mclaughlin, sexton, madigan, McFadden, bod, D'arcy, Kearney x2, cooney into the HEC final from their academy be likened to Chelsea.

Couple that to the fact that mike Ross, Leo Cullen and Shane Jennings wouldn't have got within an arses roar of the Ireland squad in the last few years unless they improved themselves at Leinster. That's 16 out of 23 and not mentioning Cronin and reddan as other Irish. So 18 IQ and one soon to be IQ. Really don't get the comparison with chelsea.

That comparison only came about because i said that Buckley was dire. It's just a little tantrum, but he'll change the subject very shortly.

I've already posted my team in the other thread but I'll post it here again.

Here's my team lads

1-Healy
2-Best
3-Ross
4-Ryan
5-Tuohy
6-McLaughlin
7-O'Brien
8-Heaslip

9-Reddan
10-Sexton
11-Earls
12-O'Driscoll (c)
13-Cave
14-Trimble
15-Kearney

16-Cronin
17-Fitzpatrick
18-McCarthy
19-O'Mahoney
20-Murray
21-O'Gara
22-McFadden

Most of you would agree with most of that team, but one area that might be contentious is the backrow. I agree that Heaslip has not been the best in that position for Ireland lately but I feel this could be a big game for him as he try's to make amends for the red card last time. At 7 we have to persevere with O'Brien, and IMO he has made great strides there this season. This leaves 6 where I feel McLaughlin should start as O'Mahoney would be the better of the two coming off the bench. I know I have left Henry out of the equation here but he's probably just gone to hold bags as McLaughlin would have done had 1F not been injured.

To be honest over the years all the Irish provinces have a strategy of buying in some top players and developing the bulk of their teams from their academy, club game or finding guys who are from Irish backgrounds but live/were born overseas. Mainly the provinces DO fulfil the role of developing talent for Ireland.

None of us are remotely like Chelsea. The province I would criticise most is Ulster BEFORE David Humphreys became Director of Rugby because we bought in average and poor overseas players, which was much worse in my opinion. Rob Dewey in particular leaves a bitter taste in my throat.

Ironically we never got criticised for it then and now we have players who are setting higher standards for our homegrown players we are getting stick for it. C'est la vie!

I haven’t been all that impressed with POM this season, I hear about the aggression he brings to the game but all I see is him getting involved in handbags.

We don’t need that. I’d go with the same team Sean except I’d start Henry at 7, move O’Brien to 6 and go with McLaughlin on the bench.

I was tempted to put Henry at 7 Mick but we really need to persevere with O'Brien. I think he's coming into form at the moment and learning how to mix the scavenging aspect of a 7 with his destructive running from last year.

TBH, I too have not been too impressed witht he few times I've seen O'Mahoney, and IMO he didn't have as great an impact as many of the papers were saying in his 6N's cameos. The thing there though is that I've only see him play a few times.

Personally I think we need to go for a good lineout forward at 6 now that POC is out. For that reason I would not include HEnry in the 22.

I'd give McL or POM the 6 shirt with SOB remaining at 7. Heaslip at 8.

At 7 POM hasn't looked that impressive. At 8 however, at the beginning of the season and at the end, he has looked outstanding.

Standulstermen wrote:How can a team that have brought through Healy, toner, sob, Heaslip, mclaughlin, sexton, madigan, McFadden, bod, D'arcy, Kearney x2, cooney into the HEC final from their academy be likened to Chelsea.

Couple that to the fact that mike Ross, Leo Cullen and Shane Jennings wouldn't have got within an arses roar of the Ireland squad in the last few years unless they improved themselves at Leinster. That's 16 out of 23 and not mentioning Cronin and reddan as other Irish. So 18 IQ and one soon to be IQ. Really don't get the comparison with chelsea.

Even Chelsea produce the odd player that sticks around like John Terry.

Most of them didn't come through the Leinster academy as it didn't exist. Very few of those you mention are international class. Even Munster have produced some great club players that have won heineken cups, but that doesn't mean they are international class.

A lot of Leinster's improvement has been put down to Cullen & Jennings' couple of year's stint with Leicester.

Cronin & Reddan came through Munster.

Sin, for flip sake, would you classify yourself as an irish fan at all? Most of us love to see Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Connacht do well. You would be happy if Leinster went into complete decline and disbanded! Support your provinces mate.

How's Peter Borlase getting on there Sin? Johne Murphy, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley, the crumbs from our table. Save Tokula

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, for flip sake, would you classify yourself as an irish fan at all? Most of us love to see Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Connacht do well. You would be happy if Leinster went into complete decline and disbanded! Support your provinces mate.

Only responding to a few digs at Munster for not producing more props

The only thing Ulster & Leinster can really brag about now is having IQ playing staff.

Won't take long now until we'll be like England with more kiwis and saffers accents on the Irish team than native ones.

Sin, wasn't it you and stag who initiated the topic by saying Leinster haven't produced any props and are part of the problem now? Then it was the Leinster fans who defended themselves?

POM has been brilliant this season Mick, go awy out of that. Hits everything that moves and makes ground consistently, alright at the breakdown but by no means great there yet.


All this 7 stuff drives me mad, your backrow are a unit, they need to work as a trio, one man at the breakdown won't make much of a difference, pretty much all of them have to get there to every 2nd/3rd one.

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, for flip sake, would you classify yourself as an irish fan at all? Most of us love to see Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Connacht do well. You would be happy if Leinster went into complete decline and disbanded! Support your provinces mate.

Only responding to a few digs at Munster for not producing more props

The only thing Ulster & Leinster can really brag about now is having IQ playing staff.

Won't take long now until we'll be like England with more kiwis and saffers accents on the Irish team than native ones.

Nope, you were responding to me saying that Buckley is dire.

Serious hyperbole about foreign players going on, as per.

Mickado wrote:

How's Peter Borlase getting on there Sin? Johne Murphy, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley, the crumbs from our table. Save Tokula

Peter Borlase has gone back to NZ.
Johne Murphy is fine. Got good heart.
Felix Jones is always injured. Poor lad.
Ian Keatley will be fine for the Rabo.
Save Tokula - short term signing when Chambers decided he was going back to League - whats the big deal about that? He was never going to start ahead of Keith Earls anyway.

Sin I gave you 13 names brought through the Leinster ranks. You gave me 1 name from Chelsea.

You then go on about how the players aren't international class as Geoff has mentioned changing the goalposts. This is despite the fact of the names I mentioned 10 have been capped. You are becoming a caricature my friend. It isnt good to see.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, wasn't it you and stag who initiated the topic by saying Leinster haven't produced any props and are part of the problem now? Then it was the Leinster fans who defended themselves?

No. Micado started wily waving about Leinster and NIQ props. Then Geoff had a dig at Munster for having 2 NIQ props. Then Stag set them straight and I then added my bit.

Of course, Stag doesn't get called bitter and mean spirited because he put the record straight.

Sin é wrote: Won't take long now until we'll be like England with more kiwis and saffers accents on the Irish team than native ones.

More hyperbole we have 1 player with a SH accent on this tour - Wilkinson
We haven't played a player who has qualified by residence for a decade

Is it a bad thing that Leinster have NIQ props? Why do you hate them doing well? I think it was pretty obvious Geoff was having a laugh.

Ah so glad things have calmed down since yesterdays and we're all friends again ...... so any thoughts on the tour.......

Yeah rodders, no welshmen for me to battle with on this topic. Just Sin.

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, wasn't it you and stag who initiated the topic by saying Leinster haven't produced any props and are part of the problem now? Then it was the Leinster fans who defended themselves?

No. Micado started wily waving about Leinster and NIQ props. Then Geoff had a dig at Munster for having 2 NIQ props. Then Stag set them straight and I then added my bit.

Of course, Stag doesn't get called bitter and mean spirited because he put the record straight.

i was responding to Stag's "it's all Leinster's fault" post. I said next season we'll only have 1 NIQ front row player. If i was willy waving you'd know all about it, I haven't even mentioned our 3 Heineken cups on this thread...

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote: Won't take long now until we'll be like England with more kiwis and saffers accents on the Irish team than native ones.

More hyperbole we have 1 player with a SH accent on this tour - Wilkinson
We haven't played a player who has qualified by residence for a decade

Who in the Ireland squad hasn't grown up and played most of their rugby in Ireland? Just three guys. Dan Tuohy and Declan Fitzpatrick both come from 100% Irish families but were born and raised in England. Brett Wilkinson is a saffer. That's it. None of these players is at Leinster.

Only Leinsterman playing for Ireland with a SH drawl is Isaac Boss. Leinster have one project player in Richardt Strauss. If Mike Sherry and Sean Cronin continue their progression there'll be no need to pick him.

Think you are, once again, working yourself into a froth over very little.

And if you continue to leave the K out of my username I'll add P onto yours!

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote: Won't take long now until we'll be like England with more kiwis and saffers accents on the Irish team than native ones.

More hyperbole we have 1 player with a SH accent on this tour - Wilkinson
We haven't played a player who has qualified by residence for a decade

Won't be like that for long though the way things are going (and that was my point). Ulster & Leinster seem to have given up on developing home grown talent in favour of 'as long as they are IQ'.

Leinster and Ulster players have dominated the underage teams - yet few seem to make it internationally.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, wasn't it you and stag who initiated the topic by saying Leinster haven't produced any props and are part of the problem now? Then it was the Leinster fans who defended themselves?

No. Micado started wily waving about Leinster and NIQ props. Then Geoff had a dig at Munster for having 2 NIQ props. Then Stag set them straight and I then added my bit.

Of course, Stag doesn't get called bitter and mean spirited because he put the record straight.

i was responding to Stag's "it's all Leinster's fault" post. I said next season we'll only have 1 NIQ front row player. If i was willy waving you'd know all about it, I haven't even mentioned our 3 Heineken cups on this thread...

Mick - yes Leinster are doing a very good job now. However IMO it is a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

They signed foreign prop after foreign prop after foreign prop (Ollie le Roux - van der Linde - Green - van der Merwe - Wright - White) and I feel the situation should have been managed better though mainly by the IRFU.

They are doing a good job now but were over reliant on foreign props and we are in a doo doo now.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Is it a bad thing that Leinster have NIQ props? Why do you hate them doing well? I think it was pretty obvious Geoff was having a laugh.

Yep a whoosh moment there

Total humour bypass

I would have thought a line like "Those Munster boys letting the side down again with 2 "
was obvious - not to some apparantly

http://www.espnscrum.com/ireland-tour-2012/rugby/story/164871.html

Sin é wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote: Won't take long now until we'll be like England with more kiwis and saffers accents on the Irish team than native ones.

More hyperbole we have 1 player with a SH accent on this tour - Wilkinson
We haven't played a player who has qualified by residence for a decade

Won't be like that for long though the way things are going (and that was my point). Ulster & Leinster seem to have given up on developing home grown talent in favour of 'as long as they are IQ'.

Leinster and Ulster players have dominated the underage teams - yet few seem to make it internationally.

It's not a high proportion of U20s players in general that make it internationally. I advise waiting a few years to see how many of the current crop do. The phenomenon of Leinster/Ulster dominating the U20s is recent and that alone gives the lie to the first part of your post.

You've already ruined one thread on this tour, at least that long, pointless debate was on topic. If you want to bitch about Leinster and Ulsters academies (which seem to be producing more and more homegrown players) start a new thread.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Is it a bad thing that Leinster have NIQ props? Why do you hate them doing well? I think it was pretty obvious Geoff was having a laugh.

Yep a whoosh moment there

Total humour bypass

I would have thought a line like "Those Munster boys letting the side down again with 2 "
was obvious - not to some apparantly

Wow. That was meant to be funny.

My humour is a bit more sophisticated than that. Must try harder.

Sin é wrote:My humour is a bit more sophisticated than that. Must try harder.

You must show us some evidence of having a sense of humour one day.

He seems to think watching Sexton play is funny......

I thought it was funny, but then again I am not an extraordinarily biased Munster fan..

red_stag wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, wasn't it you and stag who initiated the topic by saying Leinster haven't produced any props and are part of the problem now? Then it was the Leinster fans who defended themselves?

No. Micado started wily waving about Leinster and NIQ props. Then Geoff had a dig at Munster for having 2 NIQ props. Then Stag set them straight and I then added my bit.

Of course, Stag doesn't get called bitter and mean spirited because he put the record straight.

i was responding to Stag's "it's all Leinster's fault" post. I said next season we'll only have 1 NIQ front row player. If i was willy waving you'd know all about it, I haven't even mentioned our 3 Heineken cups on this thread...

Mick - yes Leinster are doing a very good job now. However IMO it is a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

They signed foreign prop after foreign prop after foreign prop (Ollie le Roux - van der Linde - Green - van der Merwe - Wright - White) and I feel the situation should have been managed better though mainly by the IRFU.

They are doing a good job now but were over reliant on foreign props and we are in a doo doo now.

Managed poorly by the IRFU is right, and in general it wasn't hugely successful for Leinster either. That poor management is in the past now and we can only do our best to make things better, which is what's happening now.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I thought it was funny, but then again I am not an extraordinarily biased Munster fan..

You are probably still watching cartoons on tv.

No, but I am watching one on these forums right now.

Sin é wrote: Ulster & Leinster seem to have given up on developing home grown talent in favour of 'as long as they are IQ'.

Absolute rot.

We have 40 players for next year (including development contract)

3 NIE - Pienaer, Muller, Afoa
1 who may qualify through Residency - Payne
1 who has qualified through Residency - Diack
2 who qualified through a Grandparent - D'Arcy, Court
2 who qualify through 2 Irish parents - Fitzpatrick, Tuohy
30 Ulster born and bred
1 to be decided

4 players out or 40 meet a criteria of being Irish through any rational criteria of being sort out because they were, or could be Irish.

Against that there are 30 players born in Ulster.

Even by your standards that is a joke post.

You really must lead a sad life if you enjoy posting falsehoods just to get a reaction.
You are either a WUM, blinkered or an idiot - not sure which

Leinster may have brought a lot of props in the past but that doesnt necessarily mean that they dont develop players and try to buy success. Many many good players in the past and current players now have been developed through Leinster.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote: Ulster & Leinster seem to have given up on developing home grown talent in favour of 'as long as they are IQ'.

Absolute rot.

We have 40 players for next year (including development contract)

3 NIE - Pienaer, Muller, Afoa
1 who may qualify through Residency - Payne
1 who has qualified through Residency - Diack
2 who qualified through a Grandparent - D'Arcy, Court
2 who qualify through 2 Irish parents - Fitzpatrick, Tuohy
30 Ulster born and bred
1 to be decided

4 players out or 40 meet a criteria of being Irish through any rational criteria of being sort out because they were, or could be Irish.

Against that there are 30 players born in Ulster.

Even by your standards that is a joke post.

You really must lead a sad life if you enjoy posting falsehoods just to get a reaction.
You are either a WUM, blinkered or an idiot - not sure which

Sean Dougal, Ulster academy. Signed for Munster. Nuff said...

You know everyone's going to be thinking this when he steps on the pitch:

Spoiler: