Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, I wouldn't get impatient with people for having to post things 3 times. People must have posted the same thing to you at least 50 times and you are none the wiser..

Sin mate, read what Boyne has said again. It makes perfect sense to me but once again you don't seem able to repond to a specific point with a specific answer.

No one asked you who you would select, so I don't know why you need to repost it.

Boyne is pointing out that no one is arguing for Tuohys inclusion at Ryans expense so why are you comparing them?

geoff998rugby wrote:

You really must lead a sad life if you enjoy posting falsehoods just to get a reaction.
You are either a WUM, blinkered or an idiot - not sure which

What would people think of McF taking the 14 shirt for the first test?

Mickado wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, wasn't it you and stag who initiated the topic by saying Leinster haven't produced any props and are part of the problem now? Then it was the Leinster fans who defended themselves?

No. Micado started wily waving about Leinster and NIQ props. Then Geoff had a dig at Munster for having 2 NIQ props. Then Stag set them straight and I then added my bit.

Of course, Stag doesn't get called bitter and mean spirited because he put the record straight.

i was responding to Stag's "it's all Leinster's fault" post. I said next season we'll only have 1 NIQ front row player. If i was willy waving you'd know all about it, I haven't even mentioned our 3 Heineken cups on this thread...

Mick - yes Leinster are doing a very good job now. However IMO it is a case of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

They signed foreign prop after foreign prop after foreign prop (Ollie le Roux - van der Linde - Green - van der Merwe - Wright - White) and I feel the situation should have been managed better though mainly by the IRFU.

They are doing a good job now but were over reliant on foreign props and we are in a doo doo now.

Managed poorly by the IRFU is right, and in general it wasn't hugely successful for Leinster either. That poor management is in the past now and we can only do our best to make things better, which is what's happening now.

Agree.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Personally I think we need to go for a good lineout forward at 6 now that POC is out. For that reason I would not include HEnry in the 22.

I'd give McL or POM the 6 shirt with SOB remaining at 7. Heaslip at 8.

McLaughlin will never be international class whereas POM has the potential to be an excellent player.


That's not meant as a slight against McLaughlin who is an excellent Hec player but he just lacks the little
be extra. We're probably going to get humped in this series so may as well play the young players.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What would people think of McF taking the 14 shirt for the first test?

Wouldnt have a massive problem with it at all Pete. However with the emergence of Gilroy, Zebo and Kearney along with Bowe Earls Trimble and Fitz, I think we could leave him to focus on being a center. Center is his favoured position isn't it? Or am I wrong on that one?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What would people think of McF taking the 14 shirt for the first test?

NO. I just don't trust him. Every single game he has started for Ireland has resulted in him being at fault for at least one try.

I'd be happy enough with McF playing 14. Trimble was off form at the end of the season and after the HC final I held the view that unless there's an outstanding player in the way (Eg, Ferris, POC) we should go with a Leinster player for the sake of continuity of play and their familiarity with each other... I just hope they're allowed to play the 'Leinster-way'!

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote: Ulster & Leinster seem to have given up on developing home grown talent in favour of 'as long as they are IQ'.

Absolute rot.

We have 40 players for next year (including development contract)

3 NIE - Pienaer, Muller, Afoa
1 who may qualify through Residency - Payne
1 who has qualified through Residency - Diack
2 who qualified through a Grandparent - D'Arcy, Court
2 who qualify through 2 Irish parents - Fitzpatrick, Tuohy
30 Ulster born and bred
1 to be decided

4 players out or 40 meet a criteria of being Irish through any rational criteria of being sort out because they were, or could be Irish.

Against that there are 30 players born in Ulster.

Even by your standards that is a joke post.

You really must lead a sad life if you enjoy posting falsehoods just to get a reaction.
You are either a WUM, blinkered or an idiot - not sure which

6 IQ players born outside Ireland who qualify on residency or heritage (i.e., didn't progress through the ranks in Ulster).

Personally, while I've no problem with the heritage route, I do have a problem with the 3 year residency one.

Mickado wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote: Ulster & Leinster seem to have given up on developing home grown talent in favour of 'as long as they are IQ'.

Absolute rot.

We have 40 players for next year (including development contract)

3 NIE - Pienaer, Muller, Afoa
1 who may qualify through Residency - Payne
1 who has qualified through Residency - Diack
2 who qualified through a Grandparent - D'Arcy, Court
2 who qualify through 2 Irish parents - Fitzpatrick, Tuohy
30 Ulster born and bred
1 to be decided

4 players out or 40 meet a criteria of being Irish through any rational criteria of being sort out because they were, or could be Irish.

Against that there are 30 players born in Ulster.

Even by your standards that is a joke post.

You really must lead a sad life if you enjoy posting falsehoods just to get a reaction.
You are either a WUM, blinkered or an idiot - not sure which

Sean Dougal, Ulster academy. Signed for Munster. Nuff said...

You mean the bloke that was dumped by Ulster when he got injured? (born in Scotland and brought up in England btw).

Reddan, Ross and Cronin. Dumped by Munster.

Next.

Mickado wrote:Reddan, Ross and Cronin. Dumped by Munster.

Next.

Not when they were injured.

Cronin was offered a contract, but would have been behind Flannery, Frankie & Fogs. Reddan got worried that he wouldn't get a contract (Gaffney told him he couldn't guarantee him one in Dec and that he would have to wait for a few months to see how things were going to progress. Ross just saw little gametime with Hayes in his prime.


edit: wonder why Leinster didn't offer to take Ross back then? You were happy enough to take Trev Hogan and Fogs Senior.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What would people think of McF taking the 14 shirt for the first test?

Pretty simple reason. He was petty crap before he went to Quins.

So you can't claim he was developed by Munster. Why have you no problem with Dougal qualifying by heritage but you do with Bent and Denton?

Mickado wrote:Pretty simple reason. He was petty crap before he went to Quins.

So you can't claim he was developed by Munster. Why have you no problem with Dougal qualifying by heritage but you do with Bent and Denton?

Thanks for confirming my point that Leinster resort to the cheque book more than develop their own players.

Ross was not developed by Leinster. Who said I have a problem with Bent or Denton playing for Ireland? They were just not developed by Leinster. 10/10 for Leinster chequebook usage.

Sin, are you seriously denying that the Leinster Academy has produced quality international players in the last number of years?

I would have thought the emergence of Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Jonathon Sexton, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden and Rob Kearney would speak for itself. Those are just the undisputed successes.

There are quite a few test class players coming out of Leinster. They aren't producing them in the same places we traditionally struggle, and all the academies are struggling- 3 and 9. Hopefully Hagan will kick on.

Notch wrote:Sin, are you seriously denying that the Leinster Academy has produced quality international players in the last number of years?

I would have thought the emergence of Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Jonathon Sexton, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden and Rob Kearney would speak for itself. Those are just the undisputed successes.

There are quite a few test class players coming out of Leinster. They aren't producing them in the same places we traditionally struggle- 3 and 9. Hopefully Hagan will kick on.

And in the end who gives a f**k where they come from once Ireland can benefit from having good players.

Mickado wrote:Reddan, Ross and Cronin. Dumped by Munster.

Next.

And all vastly improved on, beyond even their wildest dreams.

Next.

Also, someone (SIN) said that Leinster are not bothering in developing their own true Irish-born players. We used 29 Academy reared, full-blooded Irish players this season.
49 players were used in total. No other club on the Planet comes even near matching the Leinster Way and how it feeds its' country. None.

Next.


P.S. Not going to discuss the Irish squad or its future, until that clueless eejit is gone. Harsh, but its how Ive felt since he took over. I tried so hard to back him and Believe - after the SHLAM, but it was against the grain.

Roll on 2013.

valjester wrote:And in the end who gives a f**k where they come from once Ireland can benefit from having good players.

Easy answer. Sin, whose all-consuming bitterness is far more substantial than his desire to see Ireland succeed or indeed let a rational discussion take place on an Ireland thread!

This is all still off-topic. Considering bringing in the mods, which is pathetic, but can't stand much more of this drudgery.

Mickado wrote:Pretty simple reason. He was petty crap before he went to Quins.

So you can't claim he was developed by Munster. Why have you no problem with Dougal qualifying by heritage but you do with Bent and Denton?

Tigers have a geriatric Irish residue of players. Not many young ones though. Clearly the flea powder worked...

What about Niall Morris Portnoy?

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:Sin, are you seriously denying that the Leinster Academy has produced quality international players in the last number of years?

I would have thought the emergence of Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Jonathon Sexton, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden and Rob Kearney would speak for itself. Those are just the undisputed successes.

There are quite a few test class players coming out of Leinster. They aren't producing them in the same places we traditionally struggle- 3 and 9. Hopefully Hagan will kick on.

And in the end who gives a f**k where they come from once Ireland can benefit from having good players.

Notch wrote:Sin, are you seriously denying that the Leinster Academy has produced quality international players in the last number of years?

I would have thought the emergence of Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Jonathon Sexton, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden and Rob Kearney would speak for itself. Those are just the undisputed successes.

There are quite a few test class players coming out of Leinster. They aren't producing them in the same places we traditionally struggle, and all the academies are struggling- 3 and 9. Hopefully Hagan will kick on.

Academies are struggling at 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10 & 12.

Considering how Leinster players have dominated in underage over the last few years, that is very few. What has happened to them? Where is the hooker that was preferred to Mike Sherry* in underage games for instance?

*Mike Sherry has no underage international caps.

So feicing what? Players progress at different rates. Maybe Mike Sherry just wasn't as good then.

Maybe we could all have a lend of that Save Tokula fella? Would you mind? Munster cheque book 0/10

This is just getting ridiculous now. If Ireland are struggeling for players in certain positions then the onus is on the IRFU to look at all acadamies is it not?
Irelands issues are not Leinsters fault.

What i will say is, since Leinsters success of late, rugby has boomed there which can only be seen as a good thing.

Gibson wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:Sin, are you seriously denying that the Leinster Academy has produced quality international players in the last number of years?

I would have thought the emergence of Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Jonathon Sexton, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden and Rob Kearney would speak for itself. Those are just the undisputed successes.

There are quite a few test class players coming out of Leinster. They aren't producing them in the same places we traditionally struggle- 3 and 9. Hopefully Hagan will kick on.

And in the end who gives a f**k where they come from once Ireland can benefit from having good players.

A standing ovation for you sir!

Sin, I don't know if anyone has ever told you this. But you are tear-inducingly boring. I'm sorry...

Notch wrote:So feicing what? Players progress at different rates. Maybe Mike Sherry just wasn't as good then.

Maybe he wasn't. But what happened to the lad who was deemed to be good enough then?

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:So feicing what? Players progress at different rates. Maybe Mike Sherry just wasn't as good then.

Maybe he wasn't. But what happened to the lad who was deemed to be good enough then?

Well maybe he's not good enough now. Maybe he decided he didn't want to be a professional rugby player after all. Maybe he got injured. Maybe he just didn't adapt to the level of training needed to make the transition to senior rugby. Maybe he was just overdeveloped for his age and other players caught up with him and overtook him.

I don't know. Unless he's touring NZ with Ireland I don't feicing want to know, I want you to shut the feic up about irrelevant shoite that doesn't matter. Seriously!

Sine, I am late in joining the thread but could you educate me as to where Ireland's talent is developed please?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:So feicing what? Players progress at different rates. Maybe Mike Sherry just wasn't as good then.

Maybe he wasn't. But what happened to the lad who was deemed to be good enough then?

Well maybe he's not good enough now. Maybe he decided he didn't want to be a professional rugby player after all. Maybe he got injured. Maybe he just didn't adapt to the level of training needed to make the transition to senior rugby. Maybe he was just overdeveloped for his age and other players caught up with him and overtook him.

I don't know. Unless he's touring NZ with Ireland I don't feicing want to know, I want you to shut the feic up about irrelevant shoite that doesn't matter. Seriously!

Actually, it seems to be Tom Sexton who was the hooker around then. Think he is playing for St. Marys.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:So feicing what? Players progress at different rates. Maybe Mike Sherry just wasn't as good then.

Maybe he wasn't. But what happened to the lad who was deemed to be good enough then?

Well maybe he's not good enough now. Maybe he decided he didn't want to be a professional rugby player after all. Maybe he got injured. Maybe he just didn't adapt to the level of training needed to make the transition to senior rugby. Maybe he was just overdeveloped for his age and other players caught up with him and overtook him.

I don't know. Unless he's touring NZ with Ireland I don't feicing want to know, I want you to shut the feic up about irrelevant shoite that doesn't matter. Seriously!

Actually, it seems to be Tom Sexton who was the hooker around then. Think he is playing for St. Marys.

Tom sextom has made an appearance in the leinster team this year...

What the flip do you mean 6'5 is too short to be an international lock?! ......................... oh sorry that was yesterdays debate wasn't it?.....

rodders you scoundrel

Can't wait to see what tomorrows topic is Billy.... flip we've another 10 days to go!

Hey when you heading to NZ Billy?

Very soon rodders, cant wait. Meeting up with breaker hopefully for a pint when i am a few days in Sydney

Huh, you promised me the same in March when you were coming to SA

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:Sin, are you seriously denying that the Leinster Academy has produced quality international players in the last number of years?

I would have thought the emergence of Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Jonathon Sexton, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden and Rob Kearney would speak for itself. Those are just the undisputed successes.

There are quite a few test class players coming out of Leinster. They aren't producing them in the same places we traditionally struggle, and all the academies are struggling- 3 and 9. Hopefully Hagan will kick on.

Academies are struggling at 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10 & 12.

Considering how Leinster players have dominated in underage over the last few years, that is very few. What has happened to them? Where is the hooker that was preferred to Mike Sherry* in underage games for instance?

*Mike Sherry has no underage international caps.

You talk an unbelievable amount of sh*te. Their are a number of players in the academies at everyone of those position at the moment except for tight head but even still there are three or four th's who are promising enough.

Not all players develop at the same stage and not every player who makes underage teams has the commitment to make the sacrifices necessary to make it as a pro player. Others will decide after not making it into the underage teams that they are going to knuckle down and work hard and they make it. And of course some players are injured and miss out on underage honours because of this.

SA in March, NZ in July you sure get around Billy! Have a good one sir!

biltongbek wrote:Huh, you promised me the same in March when you were coming to SA

Was there in April mate
In Pretoria

So you not only stood me up, you lied to me as well?

biltongbek wrote:Sine, I am late in joining the thread but could you educate me as to where Ireland's talent is developed please?

I presume you mean Ireland squad (22). All except the following are still at their province of origin:

Court (Ulster & Australia)*
Cronin (Munster, Connacht, Leinster)
Ross (Munster, Quins & Leinster)
Tuohy (Exeter? & Ulster)*
Reddan (Munster, Wasps, Leinster)
Boss (New Zealand, Ulster, Leinster)*

On the horizon to be capped by Ireland through residency is:
R Straus (SA, Leinster)

*Those born outside Ireland.

Didnt have a free night mate, not one.

Billy has his own Lear Jet and Helicopter, Rodders. Say nowt.

Its a long long way from Clare to there.

Im a poor Leinster fan, Can only afford a dodgy pushbike like.

Trip was reduced from 8 days to 3, didnt get to see any of my mates

Sin é wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Sine, I am late in joining the thread but could you educate me as to where Ireland's talent is developed please?

I presume you mean Ireland squad (22). All except the following have come from elsewhere:

Court (Ulster & Australia)*
Cronin (Munster, Connacht, Leinster)
Ross (Munster, Quins & Leinster)
Tuohy (Exeter? & Ulster)*
Reddan (Munster, Wasps, Leinster)
Boss (New Zealand, Ulster, Leinster)*

On the horizon to be capped by Ireland through residency is:
R Straus (SA, Leinster)

*Those born outside Ireland.

Where is elswhere, are you talking about the other Irish regions?

Hey Sin you forgot about Pienaar, isn't he one of ours too.....

Does anyone else hear the echo in here, it looks like billy, sounds like billy, but it must be an imposter, CAUSE HE IS MAKInG LAME EXCUSES.

Gibson wrote:Billy has his own Lear Jet and Helicopter, Rodders. Say nowt.

Its a long long way from Clare to there.

Im a poor Leinster fan, Can only afford a dodgy pushbike like.

I'd expect nothing less from Billy Gibbo...

But hey don't your chinos get dirty on the push bike?

Gibson wrote:Billy has his own Lear Jet and Helicopter, Rodders. Say nowt.

At least they come to the right place and dont get flat tires