Irish Summer Tour Squad

First topic message reminder :

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, I wouldn't get impatient with people for having to post things 3 times. People must have posted the same thing to you at least 50 times and you are none the wiser..

Sin mate, read what Boyne has said again. It makes perfect sense to me but once again you don't seem able to repond to a specific point with a specific answer.

No one asked you who you would select, so I don't know why you need to repost it.

Boyne is pointing out that no one is arguing for Tuohys inclusion at Ryans expense so why are you comparing them?

eirebilly wrote:Any chance we may get back on topic soon?

Its a bit depressing discussing the current squad. POC and Ferris both out, Healy and Ross not fully fit, and Rog still in the squad doesn't make for optimistic fans, especially when you add our options at 12 to the mix, you can't really expect us to be excited about the upcoming thrashings.

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:You're lack of knowledge is painful.

2- Niall Annett, Tom Sexton, Niall Scannell, Duncan Casey, Dermot Murphy,
3- Adam Macklin, Jamie Hagan, Jack McGrath can play both sides, Tadhg Furlong, John Ryan, Alan Cotter,
4- Iain Henderson, Ben Marshall, Dave Foley, Ian Nagle, Brian Hayes, Docv2, Cathal O'Flaherty, David Nolan, Daniel Qualter, Mick Kearney,
7- Dom Ryan, Ali Birch, Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy, Brian O'Hara, Shane Conneely,
10- Paddy Jackson, JJ Hanrahan, James McKinney, Noel Reid, Cathal Marsh, Jack Carty
12- JJ Hanrahan, Luke Marshall, Chris Farrell, Peter Nelson, Noel Reid

Not all will make it. But you're showing a fair degree of stupidity in writing players like Madigan off just because the best outhalf in Ireland is ahead of him.

Just to add some players to your list, and that just who I can think of at the moment and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Players who can play two positions were put in twice.

All unproven. I haven't written madigan off (I rate him). But he has a fair bit to go yet. Why isn't he allowed to take placekicks?

He has taken placekicks for leinster

As mentioned 30 of Ulster top 40 players are born and bred - what is the Munster equivalent

Our academy players who have come through or who are threatening to come through:

1- McAllister
2 - Annett
3 - Macklin
4/5/6 - Henserson
7 - Birch
10 - Jackson
12 - Marshall
13 - Spence/Farrell
14- Gilroy
15 - Nelson

They are at different stages of development, some will make it some will not. There are a good crop just below them as well.

The whole emphasis at Ulster rugby is to develop the academy - that is why McLaughlin has been appointed a new role.

Someone who says we just throw a cheque book at is knows nothing about Ulster rugby.

Ulster are going into next season with only 3 players who are permanent disbarred from playing for Ireland - less than Munster. A few high profile players were signed to kick start a team that was very poor because of previous mismanagment. The fact that the foreign internationals is going down from 6 to 3 or 4 this year is a clear indication of where we are heading. We will not be replacing Afoa when he goes

Fitzgerald returned to Ulster as a teenager and he has developed his game here not in England. You might as well mention ROG for being born in the USA, if you want to go to the absurd. Fitzpatrick is a Cavan man to his boot straps

valjester wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Any chance we may get back on topic soon?

Its a bit depressing discussing the current squad. POC and Ferris both out, Healy and Ross not fully fit, and Rog still in the squad doesn't make for optimistic fans, especially when you add our options at 12 to the mix, you can't really expect us to be excited about the upcoming thrashings.

Val man, be positive

Cave is going to do a brilliant job alonside BOD

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:You're lack of knowledge is painful.

2- Niall Annett, Tom Sexton, Niall Scannell, Duncan Casey, Dermot Murphy,
3- Adam Macklin, Jamie Hagan, Jack McGrath can play both sides, Tadhg Furlong, John Ryan, Alan Cotter,
4- Iain Henderson, Ben Marshall, Dave Foley, Ian Nagle, Brian Hayes, Docv2, Cathal O'Flaherty, David Nolan, Daniel Qualter, Mick Kearney,
7- Dom Ryan, Ali Birch, Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy, Brian O'Hara, Shane Conneely,
10- Paddy Jackson, JJ Hanrahan, James McKinney, Noel Reid, Cathal Marsh, Jack Carty
12- JJ Hanrahan, Luke Marshall, Chris Farrell, Peter Nelson, Noel Reid

Not all will make it. But you're showing a fair degree of stupidity in writing players like Madigan off just because the best outhalf in Ireland is ahead of him.

Just to add some players to your list, and that just who I can think of at the moment and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Players who can play two positions were put in twice.

All unproven. I haven't written madigan off (I rate him). But he has a fair bit to go yet. Why isn't he allowed to take placekicks?

Of course they're unproven. They're young talent and they are being developed by the academies. You keep shifting the goal posts. Madigan is allowed to take kicks. You might have missed the Dragons match when he kicked all the points.

eirebilly wrote:Any chance we may get back on topic soon?

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

I love him btw the way. 3 x HC winning Captain. Id roide im and tell the SUN.

Gibson wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Any chance we may get back on topic soon?

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

I love him btw the way. 3 x HC winning Captain. Id roide im and tell the SUN.

Shoite Gibbo ye slet ye, youd roide me if i wore a Leinster shirt

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I'd say Mr Penney's Canterbury has been as good, if not better - a fair few greats have started their careers on that team (McCaw & Carter for starters).

Both of them were before Penney's time, if you want to put a Munster twist on to everything as usual you could have used Keiran Read, a player actually developed by Penney as an example.

Rob Penney:
Canterbury Provincial Development (Academy) manager 1999-2004;
Crusaders assistant coach (forwards) winning Super 12 title in 2005,
Canterbury head coach 2006-2012, winning four ITM Cup titles between 2008 and 2011;

Huge belief in Cave. He has shown it on the highest club stage. Always believed it would be O Malley, but naw, Cave is BOD incarnate. He will be pushed though. All good.

Zebo before Gilroy is blatant, blind, Cork - provincialism.

Discuss.

When discussing current Academy players they will ALL be unproven Sin. Because they are Academy players. If they were proven they would be first team players on permanent contracts like Gilroy.

So saying an Academy is overrated because it's current Academy players are unproven makes no sense. It's better to look at what players around the age of 24/25 from various Academies are doing. Of course, part of their job is to weed out the nearly men. You're going to find some guys from every academy who never make it. This is also not evidence of much.

I would say the Leinster Academy is the gold standard in the Pro 12. In terms of the number of guys who have been able to slot in seamlessly to the style of rugby Leinster play, are confident and fearless on the pitch and have very sound basic skills Ulster and Munster don't measure up- yet. I think McLaughlins input will improve our intake at Ulster. Our academy is getting better. Munster will benefit from the inout of their new coaching team.

The academy structures we have are one of the major reasons why our provinces punch so well above their weight. It will take quite a long time for this to bear fruit at test level though, if at all.

Hype? Hype?

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS MY FRIEND!



Your hatred it feeds me. Keep it up turnip!

Gibson wrote:Huge belief in Cave. He has shown it on the highest club stage. Always believed it would be O Malley, but naw, Cave is BOD incarnate. He will be pushed though. All good.

Zebo before Gilroy is blatant, blind, Cork - provincialism.

Discuss.

Nah thats shrewd management. Zebo is quality, best finisher in Ireland by a mile. Raw talent, get him in there and see how he adjusts.

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:You're lack of knowledge is painful.

2- Niall Annett, Tom Sexton, Niall Scannell, Duncan Casey, Dermot Murphy,
3- Adam Macklin, Jamie Hagan, Jack McGrath can play both sides, Tadhg Furlong, John Ryan, Alan Cotter,
4- Iain Henderson, Ben Marshall, Dave Foley, Ian Nagle, Brian Hayes, Docv2, Cathal O'Flaherty, David Nolan, Daniel Qualter, Mick Kearney,
7- Dom Ryan, Ali Birch, Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy, Brian O'Hara, Shane Conneely,
10- Paddy Jackson, JJ Hanrahan, James McKinney, Noel Reid, Cathal Marsh, Jack Carty
12- JJ Hanrahan, Luke Marshall, Chris Farrell, Peter Nelson, Noel Reid

Not all will make it. But you're showing a fair degree of stupidity in writing players like Madigan off just because the best outhalf in Ireland is ahead of him.

Just to add some players to your list, and that just who I can think of at the moment and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Players who can play two positions were put in twice.

All unproven. I haven't written madigan off (I rate him). But he has a fair bit to go yet. Why isn't he allowed to take placekicks?

Of course they're unproven. They're young talent and they are being developed by the academies. You keep shifting the goal posts. Madigan is allowed to take kicks. You might have missed the Dragons match when he kicked all the points.

Nope: No shifting of the goalposts on my part. I made a list of the 'prospects' and I said outside of that list they were unproven. I also made the point that there seems to be a lot of U20s Ireland players who don't make it.

Gibson wrote:Huge belief in Cave. He has shown it on the highest club stage. Always believed it would be O Malley, but naw, Cave is BOD incarnate. He will be pushed though. All good.

Zebo before Gilroy is blatant, blind, Cork - provincialism.

Discuss.

Cave is good, but nowhere near as good as BOD. That said think he could do really well for Ireland in the right conditions. Unlikely to prosper immediately in the harsh environment of NZ, may be exposed, but should be persevered with. Don't expect him to see much gametime though. D'Arcy, BOD and Earls are the options; Kidney will be terrified to blood players. If Cave (and Zebo) do start it will be because we were reamed in the first test and Kidney is getting desperate.

Gilroy is probably the more equipped of the two to make the immediate step up and is playing well. Ironically, I think Zebo has been called up too soon in his development!

eirebilly wrote:

Gibson wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Any chance we may get back on topic soon?

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

I love him btw the way. 3 x HC winning Captain. Id roide im and tell the SUN.

Shoite Gibbo ye slet ye, youd roide me if i wore a Leinster shirt

Not fair. I just love yer accent. Just talk durty to me. Id be grand. Id love a roide in a helicopter mind.

Will Paddy Jackson revcover and grow from his HC Final experience? Answers? Discussion? I rate him highly. He needs a mental cuddle and some more nurturing. He'll make it I reckon.

Added to the fact that Im always right about these tings. Sorted.

Gibson wrote:

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

eez, thanks gibbo, now I have to go slaughter a pig just to get that image out of my head

Gibson wrote:Will Paddy Jackson revcover and grow form his HC Final experience? Answers? Discussion? I rate him highly. He needs a mental cuddle and some more nurturing. He'll make it I reckon.s:

You know how in Stadiums like Twickenham, they have a press zone between the dressing rooms where players can stop to chat to the media or push through to the bus with their headphones on?

Well, Paddy Jackson went out after the Final to face the journos without any prompting from the coaches or senior players. He could have chosen to slink away but he didn't. He stood tall and said "I'll learn from it". I think he has the stones. Ian Humphreys threw a bit of a strop and left the province which means he's our number one outhalf next season. I expect good things; some mistakes and growing pains will come from it too, but I believe he has the talent and the mental strength. It's going to be an interesting season.

Gibson wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Gibson wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Any chance we may get back on topic soon?

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

I love him btw the way. 3 x HC winning Captain. Id roide im and tell the SUN.

Shoite Gibbo ye slet ye, youd roide me if i wore a Leinster shirt

Not fair. I just love yer accent. Just talk durty to me. Id be grand. Id love a roide in a helicopter mind.

Will Paddy Jackson revcover and grow from his HC Final experience? Answers? Discussion? I rate him highly. He needs a mental cuddle and some more nurturing. He'll make it I reckon.

Added to the fact that Im always right about these tings. Sorted.

Cullen reminds me of that English football fella, Crouch? They asked him once, what would he be if he was'nt a football star... A virgin he said. Quality stuff.

Notch wrote:

Gibson wrote:Huge belief in Cave. He has shown it on the highest club stage. Always believed it would be O Malley, but naw, Cave is BOD incarnate. He will be pushed though. All good.

Zebo before Gilroy is blatant, blind, Cork - provincialism.

Discuss.

Cave is good, but nowhere near as good as BOD. That said think he could do really well for Ireland in the right conditions. Unlikely to prosper immediately in the harsh environment of NZ, may be exposed, but should be persevered with. Don't expect him to see much gametime though. D'Arcy, BOD and Earls are the options; Kidney will be terrified to blood players. If Cave (and Zebo) do start it will be because we were reamed in the first test and Kidney is getting desperate.

Gilroy is probably the more equipped of the two to make the immediate step up and is playing well. Ironically, I think Zebo has been called up too soon in his development!

He is not the new BOD. No one is. But he has power, self-belief, vision, spatial awareness. And he's young. That will do for me.

As for the Zebo v Gilroy discussion. It's blatant. Zebo has done nothing to deserve to be in that squad (other than being tanned and coming from Munster - quotas?). Gilroy has. Zebo looks good, but all he has done is finished off moves from 2 metres out. Gilroy is far more creative in his own right.

Hauld on there, I'm starting to see a pattern here. Naw, its nowt to do with the coach. Cant be.

Gibson wrote:

He is not the new BOD. No one is. But he has power, self-belief, vision, spatial awareness. And he's young. That will do for me.

As for the Zebo v Gilroy discussion. It's blatant. Zebo has done nothing to deserve to be in that squad (other than being tanned and coming from Munster - quotas?). Gilroy has. Zebo looks good, but all he has done is finished off moves from 2 metres out. Gilroy is far more creative in his own right.

Hauld on there, I'm starting to see a pattern here. Naw, its nowt to do with the coach. Cant be.

Jesus man, no need for that.

Zebo has scored 12 tries this season which is fairly impressive and he has outright speed which is something most Irish backs don't have. He picks good lines and will be a decent player. Personally I think that there should have been room for both of them.

Val,
A touch of WUM, added to how I see it. I like the fact that Kidney is taking a young raw winger to NZ. Zebo may prove to be a quality international. Like Visser (most tries in the PRO12 for 3 years running) may be for Scotland.

But. I just think that Gilroy is a far more instinctive & creative player. Shoot me.

Time will tell Im right. Or not. As the case may be.

Notch wrote:When discussing current Academy players they will ALL be unproven Sin. Because they are Academy players. If they were proven they would be first team players on permanent contracts like Gilroy.

So saying an Academy is overrated because it's current Academy players are unproven makes no sense. It's better to look at what players around the age of 24/25 from various Academies are doing. Of course, part of their job is to weed out the nearly men. You're going to find some guys from every academy who never make it. This is also not evidence of much.

I would say the Leinster Academy is the gold standard in the Pro 12. In terms of the number of guys who have been able to slot in seamlessly to the style of rugby Leinster play, are confident and fearless on the pitch and have very sound basic skills Ulster and Munster don't measure up- yet. I think McLaughlins input will improve our intake at Ulster. Our academy is getting better. Munster will benefit from the inout of their new coaching team.

The academy structures we have are one of the major reasons why our provinces punch so well above their weight. It will take quite a long time for this to bear fruit at test level though, if at all.

OK - list the u25 players that have come through recently.

I'll start with Munster (rating them as to how successful they have been).
1. Kilcoyne (23) (B+I Cup winner this season).
2. Mike Sherry (23) On tour to NZ as 3rd choice hooker after Cronin (who has just gone 26 and is also from Munster academy)
3. Stephen Archer (24). 30 Munster caps.
4&5. Ian Nagle (23). 18 caps (including one in the win against Australia). Dave O'Callaghan (22) 10 Munster caps.
6. Peter O'Mahony (22). Capped internationally.
7. Tommy O'Donnell (25). 45 Munster caps.
8. Paddy Butler (21). 12 Munster caps.
9. Conor Murray (23). Capped internationally.
10. Scott Deasy ( JJ Hanrahan (19). B+I Cup winner.
11. Zebo (22). On tour to NZ
12. Danny Barnes (22). 29 Munster caps. / Ivan Dineen (24) B+ I Cup winners.
13. Keith Earls (24) Capped internationally.
14. Luke O'Dea (21) B+I Cup winner.
15. Sean Scanlon (24) B+ I cup winner.

Munster Academy has provided 5 U-25s for the tour to NZ (with 3 of them more than likely to be in the 22 - Murray, Earls & O'Mahony).

In fairness SIN, Murray is beginning to look like a young TOL. Nowhere even near as talented as the best 9 we have. Reddan.

Maybe its negative coaching, but I'm concerned if has it in him to stake a permanent claim. Back to the Irish 9 drawing-board?

Marshall?

Gibson wrote:In fairness SIN, Murray is beginning to look like a young TOL. Nowhere even near as talented as the best 9 we have. Reddan.

Maybe its negative coaching, but I'm concerned he has it in him to stake a permanent claim. Back to the Irish 9 drawing-board?

Marshall?

A young Tomas O'Leary deservedly got picked for the Lions

Gibson wrote:Val,
A touch of WUM, added to how I see it. I like the fact that Kidney is taking a young raw winger to NZ. Zebo may prove to be a quality international. Like Visser (most tries in the PRO12 for 3 years running) may be for Scotland.

But. I just think that Gilroy is a far more instinctive & creative player. Shoot me.

Time will tell Im right. Or not. As the case may be.

It much of muchness in my opinion, I'd like to think Gilroy will be the better player but I'm really not too bothered by which one goes as I don't think either of them are ready for the All Blacks. They both still have problems in defence. They have time to fix them. Also I think it is harsh to judge Zebo when he is playing in a backline controlled by Rog.

Edit; also on Murray, you are definitely confusing talent with form when it comes to him and Reddan. Murray is a very talented player who has lost his way a bit in the last year. His pass is still extremely fast, he just needs to actually release the ball quicker.

You can't seriously rant about advocates of Leinsters academy championing unproven players and then include Kilcoyne, Nagle, Butler, Deasy, Hanrahan, Barnes, O'Dea, Scanlon?

You see the inconsitently there right? Christ, please tell me you do.You're including decent squad players. Leinster and Ulster have plenty of the same, am I really expected to waste my time listing them all?

After all, I don't give a flying feic about this argument and you're trying to drag me in anyway...

It's all just interprovincial dick measuring. I. Don't. Care.

Mickado wrote:Hype? Hype?

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS MY FRIEND!



Your hatred it feeds me. Keep it up turnip!

I thought that was the Ospreys Mick?...... ah sorry get you you now..... .....

Anyway back on topic, from the squad announced the team likely to be picked is;

Healy, Best, Ross
Ryan, Doc
Pom, Sob, Heaslip
Murray, Sexton (Please baby Jesus)
Darcy Bod
Earls Kearney Trimble

Whereas I'd prefer

Healy, Best, Ross
Ryan, Tuohy
Pom, Sob, Heaslip
Murray, Sexton
Bod Cave
Earls Kearney Trimble

So not really a huge difference but it would be two joint leaps forward if Doc and Darce were replaced.

Its been nice to diffuse and chatter.

No matter who we play or who we personally back - our main problem is at the top. Cant believe I even got involved in all this bollox.

Kidney MUST go. No matter who we have in the 23, its how we play, not who we play, that will eventually get us there. We need vision at the top end or it is all an Elephant.

We have wasted 3 precious years already. NZ 3. Irl 0. Kidney out.

Gibbo out.

Amazing that for all the bickering we get on these Ireland threads that when people actually post their teams they are nearly all identical! ....

Notch wrote:You can't seriously rant about advocates of Leinsters academy championing unproven players and then include Kilcoyne, Nagle, Butler, Deasy, Hanrahan, Barnes, O'Dea, Scanlon?

You see the inconsitently there right? Christ, please tell me you do.You're including decent squad players. Leinster and Ulster have plenty of the same, am I really expected to waste my time listing them all?

After all, I don't give a flying feic about this argument and you're trying to drag me in anyway...

It's all just interprovincial dick measuring. I. Don't. Care.

Eh, it was a list of players in the academy to see where they were at (i.e., B+I Cup winners mostly). You may have noticed that I picked out 5 who are now making their way as internationals or are on the fringes of making it.

Now, how about you doing a similar list. And perhaps Val might do one for Leinster.
Then we can compare where we are.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:You can't seriously rant about advocates of Leinsters academy championing unproven players and then include Kilcoyne, Nagle, Butler, Deasy, Hanrahan, Barnes, O'Dea, Scanlon?

You see the inconsitently there right? Christ, please tell me you do.You're including decent squad players. Leinster and Ulster have plenty of the same, am I really expected to waste my time listing them all?

After all, I don't give a flying feic about this argument and you're trying to drag me in anyway...

It's all just interprovincial dick measuring. I. Don't. Care.

Eh, it was a list of players in the academy to see where they were at (i.e., B+I Cup winners mostly). You may have noticed that I picked out 5 who are now making their way as internationals or are on the fringes of making it.

Now, how about you doing a similar list. And perhaps Val might do one for Leinster.
Then we can compare where we are.

Why'd I do one for Leinster?

biltongbek wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

eez, thanks gibbo, now I have to go slaughter a pig just to get that image out of my head

He is right though.

Spoiler:

Urgh, ffs.

I tried to engage you in a rational discussion. I hoped we could talk about the various academies strengths and weaknesses. Instead you insist on a list making exercise. I'm beginning to think that's all you understand.

I'm tired. I'm bored. And I can't believe I'm honouring your moronic request. Purely on players who have made their senior debut for the Ulster first team; no U20s who haven't stepped up.

1. Paddy McAllister, Alan Whitten
2. Niall Annett
3. Adam Macklin, Paul Karyainnis
4. Ryan Caldwell (Bath).
5. Iain Henderson, Lewis Stevenson
6. Stephen Ferris, TJ Anderson (Connacht)
7. Ali Birch, Willie Faloon (Connacht), David Pollock (retired)
8. Chris Henry, Mike McComish
9. Paul Marshall, Ian Porter (leaving?), Blane McIlroy
10. Paddy Jackson, Niall O'Connor (returning from Connacht), James McKinney (Rotherham)
11. Andrew Trimble, Chris Cochrane, Mark McCrea (Connacht)
12. Luke Marshall, Ian Whitten (Exeter), Chris Farrell
13. Darren Cave, Nevin Spence, Jonny Shiels
14. Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy, Tommy Seymour (Glasgow)
15. Peter Nelson, Jamie Smith (NG Dragons)

There are a lot of players there. Some have left but hope to return a year or two down the line. Some will not return. Unfortunately our Academy is running at a surplus and we have more players coming through than we have professional contracts to offer them. Competition is fierce in certain positions- especially wing and centre- whilst we we have struggled to produce backrowers or locks.

Are you feicing happy now? Do what you want with that info. I'll just know not to expect any nuanced thinking

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:You can't seriously rant about advocates of Leinsters academy championing unproven players and then include Kilcoyne, Nagle, Butler, Deasy, Hanrahan, Barnes, O'Dea, Scanlon?

You see the inconsitently there right? Christ, please tell me you do.You're including decent squad players. Leinster and Ulster have plenty of the same, am I really expected to waste my time listing them all?

After all, I don't give a flying feic about this argument and you're trying to drag me in anyway...

It's all just interprovincial dick measuring. I. Don't. Care.

Eh, it was a list of players in the academy to see where they were at (i.e., B+I Cup winners mostly). You may have noticed that I picked out 5 who are now making their way as internationals or are on the fringes of making it.

Now, how about you doing a similar list. And perhaps Val might do one for Leinster.
Then we can compare where we are.

Why'd I do one for Leinster?

Because Notch rubished the Ulster & Munster Academies and claimed that they are both way behind the Leinster one!
Better to have a native to assess them. (You'd think I was just been bitter if I did it)

By the way lads & lassies - Casey Laulala is playing inside centre for the Ba-Baas at the weekend so Earls might be staying put at 13 for munster!

Barbarians: 15 Mils Muliana, 14 Isa Nacewa, 13 Mike Tindall, 12 Casey Laulala, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Stephen Donald, 9 Richie Rees, 8 Mamuka Gorgodze, 7 Johnnie Beattie, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Mark Chisholm, 4 Mick O'Driscoll, 3 John Smit (capt), 2 Benoit August, 1 Duncan Jones.
Replacements: 16 Aled de Malmanche, 17 Neemia Tialata, 18 Anton Van Zyl, 19 Akapusi Qera, 20 Rory Lawson, 21 Sailosi Tagicakibau, 22 Cedric Heymans.

Notch wrote:Urgh, ffs.

I tried to engage you in a rational discussion. I hoped we could talk about the various academies strengths and weaknesses. Instead you insist on a list making exercise. I'm beginning to think that's all you understand.

I'm tired. I'm bored. And I can't believe I'm honouring your moronic request. Purely on players who have made their senior debut for the Ulster first team; no U20s who haven't stepped up.

1. Paddy McAllister, Alan Whitten
2. Niall Annett
3. Adam Macklin, Paul Karyainnis
4. Ryan Caldwell (Bath).
5. Iain Henderson, Lewis Stevenson
6. Stephen Ferris, TJ Anderson (Connacht)
7. Ali Birch, Willie Faloon (Connacht), David Pollock (retired)
8. Chris Henry, Mike McComish
9. Paul Marshall, Ian Porter (leaving?), Blane McIlroy
10. Paddy Jackson, Niall O'Connor (returning from Connacht), James McKinney (Rotherham)
11. Andrew Trimble, Chris Cochrane, Mark McCrea (Connacht)
12. Luke Marshall, Ian Whitten (Exeter), Chris Farrell
13. Darren Cave, Nevin Spence, Jonny Shiels
14. Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy, Tommy Seymour (Glasgow)
15. Peter Nelson, Jamie Smith (NG Dragons)

There are a lot of players there. Some have left but hope to return a year or two down the line. Some will not return. Unfortunately our Academy is running at a surplus and we have more players coming through than we have professional contracts to offer them. Competition is fierce in certain positions- especially wing and centre- whilst we we have struggled to produce backrowers or locks.

Are you feicing happy now? Do what you want with that info. I'll just know not to expect any nuanced thinking

You managed to leave out a fair few players as well. I've lost the will to continue the argument and can't remember what it was about in the first place, which really does show that the old saying about never arguing with an idiot is right.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Possibly not. Have you seen Leo's Missus? Phhokk me, he must have a huuge diick.

eez, thanks gibbo, now I have to go slaughter a pig just to get that image out of my head

He is right though.

Spoiler:

Proves nothing. Anybody can get their photo taken with Leo these days! Right Hoog?

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:You can't seriously rant about advocates of Leinsters academy championing unproven players and then include Kilcoyne, Nagle, Butler, Deasy, Hanrahan, Barnes, O'Dea, Scanlon?

You see the inconsitently there right? Christ, please tell me you do.You're including decent squad players. Leinster and Ulster have plenty of the same, am I really expected to waste my time listing them all?

After all, I don't give a flying feic about this argument and you're trying to drag me in anyway...

It's all just interprovincial dick measuring. I. Don't. Care.

Eh, it was a list of players in the academy to see where they were at (i.e., B+I Cup winners mostly). You may have noticed that I picked out 5 who are now making their way as internationals or are on the fringes of making it.

Now, how about you doing a similar list. And perhaps Val might do one for Leinster.
Then we can compare where we are.

Why'd I do one for Leinster?

Because Notch rubished the Ulster & Munster Academies and claimed that they are both way behind the Leinster one!
Better to have a native to assess them. (You'd think I was just been bitter if I did it)

By the way lads & lassies - Casey Laulala is playing inside centre for the Ba-Baas at the weekend so Earls might be staying put at 13 for munster!

Barbarians: 15 Mils Muliana, 14 Isa Nacewa, 13 Mike Tindall, 12 Casey Laulala, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Stephen Donald, 9 Richie Rees, 8 Mamuka Gorgodze, 7 Johnnie Beattie, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Mark Chisholm, 4 Mick O'Driscoll, 3 John Smit (capt), 2 Benoit August, 1 Duncan Jones.
Replacements: 16 Aled de Malmanche, 17 Neemia Tialata, 18 Anton Van Zyl, 19 Akapusi Qera, 20 Rory Lawson, 21 Sailosi Tagicakibau, 22 Cedric Heymans.

Then you might want to get someone actually from Leinster to do it, rather than getting me to do it.

Sin é wrote:
Because Notch rubished the Ulster & Munster Academies and claimed that they are both way behind the Leinster one!
Better to have a native to assess them. (You'd think I was just been bitter if I did it)

Urgh, Christ. I did not rubbish them. I think they are doing a good job, but in terms of producing players who are able to instantly step up for their province Leinster are leading the way. Ulster and Munster Academy players take longer to acclimatise in my view.

Just show the futility of trying to make any kind of nuanced point on here

Sin, Laulala may be at 12 this weekend, but that doesn't mean he is actually good there. I have heard from the Cardiff fans that he is a 13 only.

Also Notch, breathe.. I don't see the point in continuing with him. I think he is on the wind up atm. I hope so anyway..

Good morning Guys.
The first thing I do these days when i come onto 606 is to check out what issue the Irish guys are kicking the beejeezus out of, you blokes are priceless.

I must say I'm somewhat surprised at Jk playing casey Laulala at second five could this be to make room for Mr Tindall? nothing more nothing less. its the closest thing to a logical reason that I can think of.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, Laulala may be at 12 this weekend, but that doesn't mean he is actually good there. I have heard from the Cardiff fans that he is a 13 only.

Wouldn't have got much of a chance to play at 12 at Cardiff with Jamie Roberts obviously first choice there. No stand-out Welsh player for 13 so that might explain why Casey was brought in in the first place.

auckland - have you noticed who the catalyst to all our meaningless arguments is?

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, Laulala may be at 12 this weekend, but that doesn't mean he is actually good there. I have heard from the Cardiff fans that he is a 13 only.

Wouldn't have got much of a chance to play at 12 at Cardiff with Jamie Roberts obviously first choice there. No stand-out Welsh player for 13 so that might explain why Casey was brought in in the first place.

Roberts has been injured a fair bit for the Cardiff Blues though. Maybe Laulala actually suits 13 more than 12..

Rory
Ive got too many grey hairs to be pulled into the web that easily, I'm not going to get a reputation round here as a "grass".

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:
Because Notch rubished the Ulster & Munster Academies and claimed that they are both way behind the Leinster one!
Better to have a native to assess them. (You'd think I was just been bitter if I did it)

Urgh, Christ. I did not rubbish them. I think they are doing a good job, but in terms of producing players who are able to instantly step up for their province Leinster are leading the way. Ulster and Munster Academy players take longer to acclimatise in my view.

Just show the futility of trying to make any kind of nuanced point on here

Em, 3 of those Munster players were capped during their first pro season (Earls, Murray, POM). If that isn't stepping up quickly, I don't know what is.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sin, Laulala may be at 12 this weekend, but that doesn't mean he is actually good there. I have heard from the Cardiff fans that he is a 13 only.

Wouldn't have got much of a chance to play at 12 at Cardiff with Jamie Roberts obviously first choice there. No stand-out Welsh player for 13 so that might explain why Casey was brought in in the first place.

Roberts has been injured a fair bit for the Cardiff Blues though. Maybe Laulala actually suits 13 more than 12..

Wishful thinking on your part I think Rory - they have had more cover at 12 than 13. They even got Henson in at one stage. Roberts was always going to be first choice 12. No international class 13 other than Casey though.

How is that wishful thinking from me? What am I wishing for?

I think Casey played 13, because he is best at 13. I don't think there is anything more to it. The only wishful thinking is coming from you Sin! You want to justify having Laulala at 12 so that Earls can start at 13. Can't you see that man?