European Tour - Wales Open

First topic message reminder :

We're back at Celtic Manor this week, 12 years after the first time the event was staged here and only two years after the venue has been the host of the Ryder Cup. Looking at the OWGR strength of the field here over the years, it's hard not to notice that the event is in danger of slipping back amongst the low key events of the tour after the pre-RC peak achieved in 2010...

Spoiler:

I guess it will always be hard to compete against the Memorial, although there are a couple of top players like Westwood or McDowell who are not playing the Memorial this week and rather strangely in Lee's case he has chosen to play in Sweden next week instead... Having said that, with guys like Paul Lawrie, Jimenez, Hansen, Bjorn, the Molinari's, Matteo, RCB, etc. this is still a pretty strong field, not to mention that there will be a few more out there very much interested to grab the last few existing qualification spots for the US Open and The Open Championship. Michael Hoey is the lowest ranked player who could get inside the top 60 with a win here, although the cutline date is only after next week (from further down the ranks, Van Zyl could also get there with a win due to his low divisor).

I see that Paul Lawrie is determined to achieve his RC qualification target, with a solid start, with Lee Slattery and Marcel Siem among the very early leaders, but not such good a start from last year's winner Alex Noren, or from the two, past&present, RC captains...

Cheers, lorus, always interesting to hear information like that from local sources...

Would like to hear more details about it, but I have to say all this episode with Ross Fisher left me with a bit of a bitter taste for sure... As Tinmar said, apparently there has been some previous warning, perhaps he's been slower than usual due to that toe injury, don't know...
I know we've been all complaining about slow play for ages and I'll be glad to see something done about it, and it may sound like I'm contradicting myself, but to see it now all of a sudden imposed like that on one of the nicest guys out there, it just feels a bit strange. As kwini said, Fisher certainly seemed ok to me as well whenever I followed him. I think the thing that bothers me is that I could think of so many others that would be far more 'deserving' of such penalties, that's for sure...

Mac,
I like everything to be on time. Including me.
Imagine some others do also.
On a more prosaic level, these guys play for fortunes lavished on them not by the paying public but by the great god of TV and its advertisers/sponsors. If they book time to show, for instance, The Memorial between 2.30 p.m. and 6.00 p.m. they construct the rest of their programming around it. Etc, etc, etc.

On a playing level, I expect the players in front of me, my partners and even those behind to play at an established pace. If I have to wait on my every shot, I get out of my rhythm, others find that as well.

I don't expect Peter Cech to take three minutes to take goal kicks and I don't expect Tiger Woods to dawdle three minutes over a golf shot. Even though he, like so many others, sometimes does. Peter Cech just gets a yellow card.

I was watching it and, according to Sky commentators the group were 19 Minutes behind schedule when they were put on the clock. Fisher then recorded a late time and was given a warning at the 12th (i think).

Fair enough kwini.

How far of schedule do they have to get to upset the TV people?

Nay Bother wrote:I was watching it and, according to Sky commentators the group were 19 Minutes behind schedule when they were put on the clock. Fisher then recorded a late time and was given a warning at the 12th (i think).

What is the "schedule" then?? Does the schedule cover par golf, a couple under, WHAT?? The golf was pretty poor from this 3 ball on the front nine so they ended up having to play more shots. Was every group being timed?? It's always the last group that find themselves in this position, because clearly there is never5 a group behingd to hurry up for??

This is typical Paramour.....the man who unneccessarily got involved in a great final round duel between Harrington & Woods in the WGC Bridgestone final round a few years back......guess what, it was the final group again, the EASY TARGET. Paramour nad the European Tour need to explain their actions here and explain whether all 68 or so players were being "timed" today "ON EVERY SHOT", If not, this is pure injustice.........................

Not really sure, but you'll often miss the last holes on a Saturday's coverage (unless Tiger is involved of course!), and now they are starting tee-times ever earlier to accomodate possible delays.


19 minutes sounds to me to be beyond the pale. Paramor was lurking Saturday, you'd've thought they'd get the hint.

John, 19 minutes is a long time whichever way you slice it. Completely agree that Paramor was out of order at the Bridgestone, though that time it was Woods, not Harrington, who had been playing slowly (due to tree trouble mainly) but then Harrington went crooked and tried to play too quickly. Seems we all agree Paramor is an arrogant jerk though.

If you look at this case in isolation, of course, 19 minutes would justify it... but if you look at the bigger picture and how Paramor&Co are treating the issue of slow play in general, on a weekly basis, then I'm not so sure...
The more I think about all this, it sounds to me that Paramor was just trying to appear to be doing something, following the increased level of criticism of slow play in recent weeks...

You have to start somewhere and while have no doubt it wont be the case. If every week the rules are applied as stringently to every group i don't think anyone will complain.

To answer your question kwini, Fisher was dawdling there's no getting away from that. He continued having long conversations with his caddy after the first warning and it became obvious that he would get the 2nd bad time.

Sounds like a fair cop then.
Let's hope this "discipline" crosses the Atlantic. Even if Paramor doesn't.

Precisely, let's hope this new 'discipline' crosses the Atlantic and is applied consistantly there and here and everywhere... As for the long discussions with his caddy, maybe true, but I'd be surprised if they were anywhere as bad as those that we see all the time between Webb Simpson and his caddy...

19 minutes is a lot......BUT that 19 mins was down the the rounds of 3 players, not just Fisher.....................and again, how is the "scheduled time" decided?? And is the scheduled time "flexible" to take account of bad golf......................

I have a huge problem with one player being singled out like this. Seems to me like Paramour decided he would do one of them and Fisher was the fall guy. Would he have the guts to do it in the final round of the Open???

But they were all on the clock, the other 2 guys just made sure they did not get a warning

Nay Bother wrote:But they were all on the clock, the other 2 guys just made sure they did not get a warning

That's exactly my point.............why were they ALL on the clock. Were they all equally slow.................

Ken Brown commentated that he was surprised that Fisher didn't get a penalty for slow play on the previous hole.
Fisher has no one else to blame but himself. He knew he was on the clock but decided to continue playing slowly.

4putt wrote:Ken Brown commentated that he was surprised that Fisher didn't get a penalty for slow play on the previous hole.
Fisher has no one else to blame but himself. He knew he was on the clock but decided to continue playing slowly.

were the beeb covering the welsh open or has Ken moved?

Just been listening to Talk Sport and apparently Paramor has tried to help Fisher in the past in an attempt to help him speed up. Apparently his advice fell on deaf ears.

hend0,
If the beeb aren't covering an event, Ken Brown sometimes works the International feed which we also receive on Golf Channel in the U.S.

Ken Brown calling anyone "slow" is real pot-calling-kettle-black stuff.

Fisher has apparently/allegedly a reputation for getting slower and slower as he gets nearer the front/finish.Warnings were issued so harsh but fair.
As an aside Wolsenhome wins again in Spain.Wondered how he would fair in the seniors always great short game but not that long off the tee.And Charlie Ford(from GWs old club) a 61 in La Gomera got to do a lot for a young man to know he is capable of that sort of number.

John Paramour is neither arrogant, nor a jerk.

He's trying to do something to stop the scourge of slow play - personally I think he should be applauded. Fisher seemed as though he was never ready to play, the fact that he'd have to hit a golf shot seemed like a complete surprise to him at times. Even Fisher's caddy seemed like he was completely fed up with the continual chattering.

It's just a shame John Paramour wasn't around at that Matchplay thing a couple of weeks ago - which I gave up watching because it was eating into the rest of my time on earth. Or perhaps he was, and he just got fed up with it all as well.