England World T20 squad

First topic message reminder :

At the moment, I'd go with

Craig Kieswetter(wk)
Luke Wright
Ben Stokes
Eoin Morgan
Jonny Bairstow
Jos Buttler
Samit Patel
Stuart Broad(c)
Graeme Swann
Danny Briggs/Steven Finn
Jade Dernbach


Steven Finn/Danny Briggs
Stuart Meaker
Ravi Bopara
Chris Nash


I will write a blog about England's limited overs sides and will explain more in detail there.

Thoughts?

Fists of Fury wrote:My final 15: Broad, Anderson, Bairstow, Bopara, Bresnan, Buttler, Dernbach, Finn, Hales, Kieswetter, Morgan, Patel, Swann, Stokes, Tredwell

Not sure about that at all, though. There are a few names I wanted to include. Woakes, for example, though I imagine you'd have to replace Bresnan with him. Luke Wright, too, who has had a very good season. Perhaps he'd be competing with Ben Stokes.

Very close to my 15 FoF with just Bopara/Bell and Tredwell/Woakes being the difference.

We have a pretty good idea of the core of the team, which always helps in a tournament.

Add KP to that list and I'd actually be very excited about our prospects. Alas, bureaucracy dictates otherwise.

I dont care if Luke Wright had a decent season in DOMESTIC cricket, the guy has a woeful record at international level.
Really we need to move on from players who arent good enough as either batsmen or bowlers, dont show aptitude for international cricket, and who dont fill any specialist role in the side.

You have a point. Maybe his time has come and gone and the likes of Stokes deserve as many chances as Wright got...though admittedly he was often mis-used as an opener.

Anyone who doesn't rate wright obviously hasn't watched him in the past 18 months. Give him a defined role and he'll do wonders. England mucked him about

How is Stokes any better? Oh yeah he isn't as good

Wright : 46 ODI's - Batting ave 22.61 -- Bowling ave 57.53.
30 T20's - Batting ave 15.43 -- Bowling ave 35.50.

I agree that his recent form has been very good for Sussex, but he has never cut the mustard when playing for England which is why many are against him being in the team.

But then again Bopara has regained his Test spot

I think that Wright is a good player, and that opening is probably where he is best. But, for me, he isn't in our best 15.

Gregers wrote:Anyone who doesn't rate wright obviously hasn't watched him in the past 18 months. Give him a defined role and he'll do wonders. England mucked him about

How is Stokes any better? Oh yeah he isn't as good

I don't know about Stokes but Wright's problem when he first started was that he couldn't play fast bowling or quality spin. I have seen nothing in the last 18 months to suggest this has changed. There has never been any question he can tonk medium-pacers around.

I'm unconvinced on Stokes as of yet, but I'm fairly convinced Wright is hopeless as an international cricketer.

Stokes and Buttler have a lot to prove as they have been talked up for a while but are yet to do anything for England with the albeit limited opportunites they've had.

Shelsey93 wrote:I think that Wright is a good player, and that opening is probably where he is best. But, for me, he isn't in our best 15.

Luke Wright was a great player at County level 5 years ago. He still failed to make an impact as an opener, a bowler, or a finisher in ODI or 20 cricket over the course of several years.
Unless someone has filled his juice drink with miracle powder youd have a hard time convincing me he is genuinely worth putting in this squad for the forthcoming tournament or the future development of the team
Hes hit two big innings over the course of the Big Bash and this summer T20 series and now hes Chris Gayle? I dont buy it. Hes been the best player in English domestic cricket before. What hes never been is a proven international. Its a lie to blame that on him being mucked about by England, hes been given long runs in the side and amassed the best part of 100 caps.

I used to be a Luke Wright apologist, Ive always wanted him to do well because hes a Leicestershire product but honestly I cant help being highly sceptical of people like him and err Bopara...oh...well err

VTR wrote:Stokes and Buttler have a lot to prove as they have been talked up for a while but are yet to do anything for England with the albeit limited opportunites they've had.

Stokes was injured when he got his opportunity (and probably shouldn't have been playing), but the injury has rather set him back and I wouldn't expect him to make the final cut.

Buttler is undoubtedly a wonderful one-day player. Annoyingly for him, we rarely seem to get down as far as No. 6 in T20s! I reckon he's batted less than 5 times in internationals, so its too early to say he has a lot to prove.

Anyone think cook could be a good t20 player- personally i do!!

I think he would step up to this sort of game(or step down if you rather) and that wouldnt affect his test and odi form

I was surprised to have read that Cook had played 4 T20's and that his S/R was over 112, although only having an ave of 15.
Maybe worth another shot, although in all the years of watching Cook i can only remember him ever only hitting one SIX.

Not quite in my final 15 though.

mystiroakey wrote:Anyone think cook could be a good t20 player- personally i do!!

I think he would step up to this sort of game(or step down if you rather) and that wouldnt affect his test and odi form

No reason why he can't be a good T20 player, and the same goes for Bell. But they don't play any domestic T20 so it would be very difficult to justify picking them ahead of those who have proven ability in the format. Thus, at this point I see no need for them to be picked.

skyeman wrote:I was surprised to have read that Cook had played 4 T20's and that his S/R was over 112, although only having an ave of 15.
Maybe worth another shot, although in all the years of watching Cook i can only remember him ever only hitting one SIX.

Not quite in my final 15 though.

His domestic average and strike rate are only a shade behind KPs, but I dont think he was ever considered for this squad.

I like a core in all formats. I like broad but i think captain cook should be captain and part of all the teams...

Shelsey93 wrote:

VTR wrote:Stokes and Buttler have a lot to prove as they have been talked up for a while but are yet to do anything for England with the albeit limited opportunites they've had.

Stokes was injured when he got his opportunity (and probably shouldn't have been playing), but the injury has rather set him back and I wouldn't expect him to make the final cut.

Buttler is undoubtedly a wonderful one-day player. Annoyingly for him, we rarely seem to get down as far as No. 6 in T20s! I reckon he's batted less than 5 times in internationals, so its too early to say he has a lot to prove.

I wasn't too clear. Point is we just don't know at the moment how good they are which is why I say they have a lot to prove. Similar to Hales was before his 99, he'd not done much in a limited number of games but now has a match winning innings under his belt - he's starting to prove why he was talked up and picked.

Definitely both talented and I'd love to see them succeed as an England supporter, let's hope they eventually do!

Shelsey93 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Anyone think cook could be a good t20 player- personally i do!!

I think he would step up to this sort of game(or step down if you rather) and that wouldnt affect his test and odi form

No reason why he can't be a good T20 player, and the same goes for Bell. But they don't play any domestic T20 so it would be very difficult to justify picking them ahead of those who have proven ability in the format. Thus, at this point I see no need for them to be picked.

I think Bell will definitely will be in the final 15, without KP (at the moment) England will need a few batsman with a fair bit of International experience. His form is outstanding and he can be as destructive as the next.
Only played in 7 T20's for England and as a not too shabby ave of 30 and S/R of 120.

yeah i am assuming bell is in the team anyway

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

skyeman wrote:I was surprised to have read that Cook had played 4 T20's and that his S/R was over 112, although only having an ave of 15.
Maybe worth another shot, although in all the years of watching Cook i can only remember him ever only hitting one SIX.

Not quite in my final 15 though.

His domestic average and strike rate are only a shade behind KPs, but I dont think he was ever considered for this squad.

But he has been considered, he is in the squad of 30, although as i have said i do not believe he will make the final 15.

skyeman wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

skyeman wrote:I was surprised to have read that Cook had played 4 T20's and that his S/R was over 112, although only having an ave of 15.
Maybe worth another shot, although in all the years of watching Cook i can only remember him ever only hitting one SIX.

Not quite in my final 15 though.

His domestic average and strike rate are only a shade behind KPs, but I dont think he was ever considered for this squad.

But he has been considered, he is in the squad of 30, although as i have said i do not believe he will make the final 15.

Crumbs show show little attention I pay doesnt it.

My Final 11 + 4

Hales
Wright
Bopara
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter(wk)
Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Finn

Tredwell
Dernbach
Bell
Bairstow/Briggs/Onions(depends on which department we need the extra cover in)

Thoughts?

My initial thoughts on the squad..

PLAYERS I EXPECTED TO BE THERE

Broad
Anderson (but not in final 15)
Bairstow
Bopara
Borthwick
Bresnan
Briggs
Buttler
Davies
Dernbach
Finn
Hales
Kieswetter
Morgan
Patel
Swann

PLAYERS WHO WERE 50-50

Bell
Cook
Stokes
Tredwell
Wright

PLAYERS WHO HAD NO CHANCE IMO

Batty
Croft
Lumb
Root
Taylor
Woakes

Batty, Croft,Root, you would expect our wildcards at this stage to make up the numbers....Stokes would have got the nod for final 15 in english conditions IMO.Taylor hugely talented, however always baffles me how he dosent play more for england, Woakes maybe in english conditions...

i dont expectt Bell or Cook to make final 15...Hales would have nailed his starting place with his 99, Tredwell maybe, i feel briggs and borthwick are better options in t20 however selectors appear to like Tredwell a lot. Luke Wright is a much better cricketer nowadays however i dont think he will make the trip.

16 players i thought were nailed on, however anderson will miss out IMO...he dsoent play a lot of t20 for england, and with it being played in sub cointeient i think that rules him out of it IMO.

I would expect the final 15 to be:

Hales
Kieswetter
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Borthwick
Broad
Swann
Finn
Bresnan
Briggs
Davies
Dernbach

No. Bell is highly unlikely to be in the team. The likely XI will be Kieswetter, Hales, Bopara, Morgan, Bairstow, Buttler, Patel, Broad, Swann, Finn, Dernbach as per the last T20 international. Bresnan, Tredwell and Anderson will probably make the squad. That leaves one back-up batting place up for grabs between Stokes, Wright, Lumb, Taylor, Cook and Bell (and any others I might have forgotten). I think it might end up being Wright, because of his ability to open, though I guess Bell would be a fine back-up batsman.

On shanky's team: Well, my thoughts on Wright have been covered by other people. However good a season he has had, he has failed constantly at International cricket before so I wouldn't even take him at all. I'd open with Lumb, as my bolter as he has been there and done it before, is in good form and creates a left-right partnership at the top of the order. Then I'd be the same, potentially Bairstow in for Kies as I am not convinced by Kies in the middle order yet, and the same bowling attack. Then your reserves are pretty accurate, I'd definitely have Bairstow in above Briggs as I don't think we need that much spin cover. And potentially Taylor in for Bell, but that's just me being a Taylor fan. But that's pretty much what I'd go with/expect to see come the first game.

i hope its time we said goodbye to wright.. bell or cook should open alonside kp in this format, job done. but i agree that it is gonna be hardly likely

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:My Final 11 + 4

Hales
Wright
Bopara
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter(wk)
Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Finn


Thoughts?

Definitely no Wright or Bops for me, but your bowlers look good for SL conditions.

JDizzle wrote:On shanky's team: Well, my thoughts on Wright have been covered by other people. However good a season he has had, he has failed constantly at International cricket before so I wouldn't even take him at all. I'd open with Lumb, as my bolter as he has been there and done it before, is in good form and creates a left-right partnership at the top of the order. Then I'd be the same, potentially Bairstow in for Kies as I am not convinced by Kies in the middle order yet, and the same bowling attack. Then your reserves are pretty accurate, I'd definitely have Bairstow in above Briggs as I don't think we need that much spin cover. And potentially Taylor in for Bell, but that's just me being a Taylor fan. But that's pretty much what I'd go with/expect to see come the first game.

Briggs and Borthwick will probably miss out - I can't see us playing more than 2 spinners (including Samit), and Tredwell will be brought along as back up for Swann in any case.

yeah gotta feel the love for taylor... i want to see him soon becoming an england regular

Shelsey93 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:On shanky's team: Well, my thoughts on Wright have been covered by other people. However good a season he has had, he has failed constantly at International cricket before so I wouldn't even take him at all. I'd open with Lumb, as my bolter as he has been there and done it before, is in good form and creates a left-right partnership at the top of the order. Then I'd be the same, potentially Bairstow in for Kies as I am not convinced by Kies in the middle order yet, and the same bowling attack. Then your reserves are pretty accurate, I'd definitely have Bairstow in above Briggs as I don't think we need that much spin cover. And potentially Taylor in for Bell, but that's just me being a Taylor fan. But that's pretty much what I'd go with/expect to see come the first game.

Briggs and Borthwick will probably miss out - I can't see us playing more than 2 spinners (including Samit), and Tredwell will be brought along as back up for Swann in any case.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to say, just much more succinctly! Swann and Patel will be in the XI, and then we only need one more in our 15 to cover which will probably be Tredwell as the management like him and you know what you will get with him, rather than Briggs who did little wrong in his T20 games in Pakistan. If I am honest, I don't see any of the other spinners in the squad even getting more than a passing mention in that discussion about who will go.

Maybe Taylor ahead of Bell. And Onions out of those 3 options.

Wright has to play for me.

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Maybe Taylor ahead of Bell. And Onions out of those 3 options.

Wright has to play for me.

If he plays, England can catch an earlier flight home

with the talent we got wright is wrong

Still feel that somehow KP will be in the team. Fingers crossed

skyeman wrote:

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:

Wright has to play for me.

If he plays, England can catch an earlier flight home

Id rather he was playing fro Shanky than for England

CF wrote:My initial thoughts on the squad..

PLAYERS I EXPECTED TO BE THERE

Broad
Anderson (but not in final 15)
Bairstow
Bopara
Borthwick
Bresnan
Briggs
Buttler
Davies
Dernbach
Finn
Hales
Kieswetter
Morgan
Patel
Swann

PLAYERS WHO WERE 50-50

Bell
Cook
Stokes
Tredwell
Wright

PLAYERS WHO HAD NO CHANCE IMO

Batty
Croft
Lumb
Root
Taylor
Woakes

Batty, Croft,Root, you would expect our wildcards at this stage to make up the numbers....Stokes would have got the nod for final 15 in english conditions IMO.Taylor hugely talented, however always baffles me how he dosent play more for england, Woakes maybe in english conditions...

i dont expectt Bell or Cook to make final 15...Hales would have nailed his starting place with his 99, Tredwell maybe, i feel briggs and borthwick are better options in t20 however selectors appear to like Tredwell a lot. Luke Wright is a much better cricketer nowadays however i dont think he will make the trip.

16 players i thought were nailed on, however anderson will miss out IMO...he dsoent play a lot of t20 for england, and with it being played in sub cointeient i think that rules him out of it IMO.

I would expect the final 15 to be:

Hales
Kieswetter
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Borthwick
Broad
Swann
Finn
Bresnan
Briggs
Davies
Dernbach

what do people think about this?

CF wrote:

CF wrote:

I would expect the final 15 to be:

Hales
Kieswetter
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Buttler
Patel
Borthwick
Broad
Swann
Finn
Bresnan
Briggs
Davies
Dernbach

what do people think about this?

[quote]

I would swap Bops, Davies, Borthwick and Briggs for Anderson, Woakes, Bell and Stokes.

Other than those

CF I dont see them sending as many of the young Bs as you have in the list. I doubt both Borthwick and Briggs will go, if either. Swann and Patel will be the first choice slow bowlers, as unadventurous as that is...I guess Borthwick as backup if not Tredwell (yes Tredwell, England always turn to him just to annoy the internet?)
They do seems to hate Woakes and Taylor now despite them previously having been the next in line, but i wouldve thought both have a chance. Id expect at least one more "proper" batsman in the squad than you have listed.
Certainly agree that Batty, Croft and Root are bit too marginal. Probably Lumb too. It almost seems like theyve picked this 30 just to have some sympathy positions.
Its pretty likely that either Davies or Keiswter will be on the reserves list rather than in the 15,. The last two world cups England only took one keeper.

We know that Broad, Morgan, Bresnan, KP(oops), Patel, Swann, Finn, Bopara, Hales and Bresnan will be in the 15 and most likley the starting 11.
The rest fairly open.
Keisweter more likely than Davies.
From your list Id take out Briggs and Davies, and put in Anderson and Bell.

Briggs deserves a chance, he is a specialist in 20/20, took the most wickets 2 years ago and if you look at his economy rate its brilliant.

Wright is a top player IMO, plus he is a useful bowler

No no no, you can't seriously say Wright should open in international T20. I'm sorry, England have tried that, he smashed a few medium pacers around, then someone figured out he could play pace and all you had to do was bowl quick and short and he'd top edge one straight up. Then England tried him at 6, and apart from a knock against the West Indies that didn't work either. Because he hasn't any clue against spin other than get bogged down and then have a slog. Occasionally he connected with 2 slogs and all was well...

If Wright opens, you can be sure he'll face quick bowling, and quality spin (India will certainly open with Ashwin, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, maybe the West Indies, New Zealand, etc. most sides will open up with spin from one end). Sorry guys, Wright is a very good county player, and a terrific fielder who can bowl a couple of useful overs, but not an international quality batsman.

Bell or Cook to open alongside Hales would be fine, and like mysti I think Cook can be a good T20 player, although his scoring areas are perhaps a bit limited for the international T20 scene. But Bell did ok opening in his first stint and seems to enjoy it in the 50 over game. Or stick with Kieswetter. I'd quite like Bell - I think particularly on the tricky pitches you want quality batsmen at the top of the order, and Bell is certainly that.

Hales, Bopara, Morgan, Bairstow are certain to go.

Butler is likely also, unless England favour moving Kieswetter down and picking Bell/Cook at the top of the order. Cook would be a strange choice TBH, as it would surely undermine Broad as captain?

Patel, Bresnan, Broad, Finn, Swann will be the first choice bowling attack, Anderson and Dernbach (issues permitting) will also be on the trip (in fact Dernbach may start?).

I like Briggs in T20, but I think they'll go with Tredwell.

So something like
Bell
Hales
Bopara
Morgan
Bairstow
Kieswetter
Patel
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Finn

Anderson
Dernbach
Tredwell/Briggs (I'd go Briggs but I think they'll go Tredwell)
Buttler/Stokes/Taylor (I'd go Buttler - tremendous little player; Taylor not so suited to T20 particularly internationals as his weakness is scoring off spinners).

My guess is they'll take the 11 that played against the West Indies plus Tredwell, Bresnan, Anderson and Stokes

the main reasoin why i would like cook to have another go is his attitude- he will allways do the right thing for the team. he wont protect his averages to put a loss into play. He knows how to pace a chase down, and i am sure he will go all out when he needs to.
Cook and bell have become real match winners as kp is, play your best whatever the format for my money

chrisss wrote:My guess is they'll take the 11 that played against the West Indies plus Tredwell, Bresnan, Anderson and Stokes

The last place between Stokes and co. is the debating point.

Jimmy isn't in the first choice XI, but he wants to play T20 and I definitely want him in my squad. Firstly, because he's a good man to be able to call in if the others haven't been getting it right and secondly because, even in Sri Lanka, its just possible that we'll come across a seamers pitch - who else would you want with the new ball then?

before the 50 over wc i was shouting for cook to be part of the odi series v aus and wc, most were saying he is no 50 over man. I have a feeling if cook was there we could have won that WC. and i am not kidding- eventually the selectors realised they mistake and brought him in! i have a strange feeling same thing will happen this time, cook wont be part of the team- we may just lose out and he will become a revelation next year!!

mystiroakey wrote:before the 50 over wc i was shouting for cook to be part of the odi series v aus and wc, most were saying he is no 50 over man. I have a feeling if cook was there we could have won that WC. and i am not kidding- eventually the selectors realised they mistake and brought him in! i have a strange feeling same thing will happen this time, cook wont be part of the team- we may just lose out and he will become a revelation next year!!

A possibility but T20 and ODIs are very different. The idea that you needed to tee off from ball one in ODIs was flawed, and is even more flawed under the current regulations. In reality in an ODI keeping wickets in hand is key and the likes of Cook and Bell are critical to that. In T20 wickets in hand are less significant - big totals are often compiled without any individual batsman making a major contribution, as was demonstrated by England's success at the last T20 World Cup where Lumb and Kieswetter got us off to good starts without scoring huge amounts of individual runs. To get those good starts you need men in form (even Chris Gayle won't strike at 150% from ball 1 if he's out of form), which is why I think we need to bring a spare opener in case things don't go well at the start of the tournament - Bell could be that man: others who bat in a broadly similar way to him in the other formats have been successful in T20, but I'm less sure about Cook.

"A possibility but T20 and ODIs are very different."

shesey everyone said that pre odi's mate but put test and odis in there.

winning is about having players with the right attitude and real proper ability

Gonna just hope

Hales
Bell
KP
Morgan
Bairstow
Kieswetter
Patel
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Finn

i remeber seeing cook play a t20 innings a year or two ago and jeasus he scored about 80 in 40.

he also has a much better 20/20 record than bell(non international)- a strike rate of 130 to 115, 105 boundaries(15 6's) of 640 balls to bells 105(22 6's)of 800 balls!! and a better average.

we cant base anything on T20i's because neither have played a significant amount

Am I the only one who thinks Kieswetter is overrated as a twenty20 cricketer? Sure he was the man of the match in t20 world cup final, but he's got a career strike rate of 115 along with a low average, which for me isn't good enough.

chrisss wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Kieswetter is overrated as a twenty20 cricketer? Sure he was the man of the match in t20 world cup final, but he's got a career strike rate of 115 along with a low average, which for me isn't good enough.

When in form he's pretty good. If out of form he's terrible. He's done nothing wrong this summer, so he'll definitely play v South Africa, and unless he has a shocker will start the World T20 at the top of the order.