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3rd Test England v West Indies

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Post by Adam D Sun 03 Jun 2012, 9:44 am

First topic message reminder :

Just got the press release for the squad so thought I would start a thread for it.

England name 12-man squad for third Investec Test match against West Indies

The England selectors today named a 12-man squad for the third Investec Test match against West Indies commencing Thursday June 7 at Edgbaston.

Pace bowler James Anderson is the only omission from the squad selected for both previous Investec Test matches against West Indies. Anderson received treatment during the course of the second Test for a minor quad problem and it has been decided that missing the final Test in the series will give the 29 year old an opportunity to overcome several minor injuries.
England won the second Test in the three match series by nine wickets at Trent Bridge to secure a series win having won the first Test at Lord’s by five wickets. Preparations for the final Investec Test in the series will begin in Edgbaston on Tuesday.

National selector, Geoff Miller, said: “We have been made to work hard for our two victories so far and are delighted to have secured the series, however we know that we will need to continue to play some good cricket if we want a third win against the West Indies this week.

“James Anderson will miss this Investec Test as we look to manage his workload ahead of a busy period of cricket this summer and beyond, a decision which is in the best interests of the team and James himself.”

England squad – 3rd Investec Test

Andrew Strauss (Middlesex) (Captain)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Alastair Cook (Essex)
Steven Finn (Middlesex)
Graham Onions (Durham)
Kevin Pietersen (Surrey)
Matt Prior (Sussex)
Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire)
Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)

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Post by Fists of Fury Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:16 am

I think realistically they have to go with Ravi, given that he is in a bit of form now, has the experience etc. It is not ideal - he has failed to perform on numerous occasions (averages 15 or so against sides other than the West Indies), but it does seem a safer bet than Bairstow at this moment.

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Post by Stella Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:21 am

The umpires are well to quick to go off and well to slow to come back on. I've sat there a few times in sunshine thinking 'where are the players?'.

Then when they do come out after a 3 hour break, they have a bleeding drinks break after 12 overs! furious
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Post by Fists of Fury Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:24 am

It wasn't ideal for the batsmen, either. They were seeing it like a beach ball and then they have to get themselves in again.

Gutted that KP didn't make a century, that was an innings off sheer class. He looks in imperious form.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:46 am

Very good points about the light. There's a huge difference between light which could be deemed poor and light which makes play dangerous. To go off for the light in a match heading for a draw in which a huge amount of time had been lost and when the batsmen were smashing it all round the ground was, frankly, ridiculous.
The crowd should have been keen to show their disgust. A display of spectator displeasure at Leeds in 81 altered the ludicrous extra-hour-only-if-they're-actually-playing-at-6pm rule.

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Post by Mike Selig Mon 11 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:
Mike, that is the point though, it wasn't even bordering on dangerous. Play should continue until someone almost or actually gets hurt, until then it clearly isn't dangerous. Considering that KP was scoring at a T20 rate there obviously weren't any issues seeing the ball.

This nonsense is what leaves grounds empty and damages the game in a big, big way. Those umpires should be hauled over the coals for such a pathetically inept showing in the instance of the light. Incompetent buffoons.

If two spinners are operating play isn't dangerous but can be unreasonable, so "dangerous" isn't the only standard. You are right in that play wasn't dangerous out there yesterday, nor was it unreasonable. The umpires got it wrong, but that doesn't warrant being dragged over coals, or being called incompetent buffoons. Everyone makes mistakes, and no doubt when the umpires are sat down afterwards they will self-reflect and admit their mistakes.

"Play should continue until someone almost or actually gets hurt, until then it clearly isn't dangerous."

I'm sorry but this sounds to me like "let's wait until something bad happens until we do something about it. Clearly conditions can be dangerous but no one get hurt by sheer luck. That is not a situation that anyone wants to see.

A lot of overreaction in the press and on here from people who ought to know better. The umpires got it wrong yesterday. That happens.

Personally I would move away from the light-meter because there are obvious accuracy issues, and also it is too inflexible; the reason they went off for the 2nd time yesterday was because the light was at the same level as when they'd gone off for the first time, but the game was different, different bowlers were operating, and everyone was seeing the ball fine. Light meters aren't human eyes.

I didn't like the "offer" to the batsman: it ignored the fact that fielding is very difficult (although not usually dangerous) in murky conditions, and in fact tougher than batting - unreasonable vs dangerous again, but no one should have to field in a situation where you lose a fraction of a second because you can't pick up the ball off the bat.

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Post by Fists of Fury Mon 11 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm

I'm not saying let's wait until someone gets hurt specifically, but there needs to be a sign that it could happen. A batsman losing a couple of short balls, for example. When there is no sign whatsoever, and the batsmen are feasting on the bowling, there is simply no argument to stop play.

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Post by DouglasJardinesbox Mon 11 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:
Mike, that is the point though, it wasn't even bordering on dangerous. Play should continue until someone almost or actually gets hurt, until then it clearly isn't dangerous. Considering that KP was scoring at a T20 rate there obviously weren't any issues seeing the ball.

This nonsense is what leaves grounds empty and damages the game in a big, big way. Those umpires should be hauled over the coals for such a pathetically inept showing in the instance of the light. Incompetent buffoons.

If two spinners are operating play isn't dangerous but can be unreasonable, so "dangerous" isn't the only standard. You are right in that play wasn't dangerous out there yesterday, nor was it unreasonable. The umpires got it wrong, but that doesn't warrant being dragged over coals, or being called incompetent buffoons. Everyone makes mistakes, and no doubt when the umpires are sat down afterwards they will self-reflect and admit their mistakes.

"Play should continue until someone almost or actually gets hurt, until then it clearly isn't dangerous."

I'm sorry but this sounds to me like "let's wait until something bad happens until we do something about it. Clearly conditions can be dangerous but no one get hurt by sheer luck. That is not a situation that anyone wants to see.

A lot of overreaction in the press and on here from people who ought to know better. The umpires got it wrong yesterday. That happens.

Personally I would move away from the light-meter because there are obvious accuracy issues, and also it is too inflexible; the reason they went off for the 2nd time yesterday was because the light was at the same level as when they'd gone off for the first time, but the game was different, different bowlers were operating, and everyone was seeing the ball fine. Light meters aren't human eyes.

I didn't like the "offer" to the batsman: it ignored the fact that fielding is very difficult (although not usually dangerous) in murky conditions, and in fact tougher than batting - unreasonable vs dangerous again, but no one should have to field in a situation where you lose a fraction of a second because you can't pick up the ball off the bat.

Excellent points, well made Mike, although were the Umpires not just following the 'rules'? If so, it's the ICC (or whover make them) that were wrong, not the umpires who are only doing their job, as dictated by their bosses.....

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 11 Jun 2012, 5:27 pm

The reason the rules are as they are is to deal with the situations when it really matters for the game.
They should however have the option of saying " look guys this is a bullsh1t game do you both agree to play on?"

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Post by Guest Mon 11 Jun 2012, 6:30 pm

a good series win and we stay no1

happy days Smile

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Post by gboycottnut Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:19 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:It wasn't ideal for the batsmen, either. They were seeing it like a beach ball and then they have to get themselves in again.

Gutted that KP didn't make a century, that was an innings off sheer class. He looks in imperious form.

But he seems to have a bowling nemesis when he bats in Marlon Samuels. That is not the first time during this test series that Samuels has managed to dismiss Pietersen.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:33 am

Nemesis? That is extreme.

He looks to attack bowlers like Samuels, naturally, so there will always be a chance of getting out to him. It has been KP getting himself out by playing aggressively, as opposed to being bamboozled by Samuels.

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Post by gboycottnut Tue 12 Jun 2012, 10:53 am

Fists of Fury wrote:Nemesis? That is extreme.

He looks to attack bowlers like Samuels, naturally, so there will always be a chance of getting out to him. It has been KP getting himself out by playing aggressively, as opposed to being bamboozled by Samuels.

But it seems to be a phenomenon that happens to English batsmen in having problems with 1 particular West Indian bowler. Graeme Hick had huge problems playing against his nemesis Curtley Ambrose during the 1991 test series, and Pietersen has got out twice to Samuels in this shorter test series.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:05 am

Ambrose is a different kettle of fish. He was a world class fast bowler, who has every right to get average Test batsmen out.

Samuels is a different matter. He is nothing beyond decent, and has been the beneficiary of an aggressive approach toward him, and perhaps complacency when he comes in to the attack. He has a decent quicker ball, but the wickets he has taken have very much been from poor balls (ok, the one KP got t'other day was alright) where the batsman has attacked and made an error.

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Post by Stella Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:17 am

Only two instances Boycott?

You could bring up loads of players/teams with the same scenario.
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