JWC: Irish and Baby Bok squads announced.

First topic message reminder :

The Irish and Baby Bok teams have been announced.

Irish team:

15. Peter Nelson (Dungannon/Ulster)
14. Barry Daly (UCD/Leinster)
13. Foster Horan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
12. Chris Farrell (Dungannon/Ulster)
11. Sam Coghlan Murray (UCD/Leinster)
10. JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster) *
9. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) *
1. Des Merrey (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) (capt)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) *
4. Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster) *
6. Jordan Coghlan (UCD/Leinster)
7. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
8. Conor Gilsenan (UCD/Mullingar/Leinster)

Replacements:

16. James Rael (Garryowen/Munster)
17. Peter Reilly (Lansdowne/Leinster)
18. Jake Cawley (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
19. Alan O'Connor (UCD/Leinster)
20. Aaron Conneely (Corinthians/Connacht) *
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)
22. Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht)
23. Mikey Sherlock (Clontarf/Leinster)

Baby Boks:

15. Dillyn Leyds (DHL Western Province)
14. Paul Jordaan (KZN)
13. Pat Howard (DHL Western Province)
12. Jan Serfontein (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
11. Raymond Rhule (Toyota Free State)
10. Tony Jantjies (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
9. Abrie Griesel (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
8. Fabian Booysen (MTN Golden Lions)
7. Wiaan Liebenberg (Vodacom Blue Bulls, captain)
6. Shaun Adendorff (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
5. Pieter Steph du Toit (KZN)
4. Paul Willemse (MTN Golden Lions)
3. Allan Dell (KZN)
2. Mark Pretorius (MTN Golden Lions)
1. Steven Kitshoff (DHL Western Province)

Reserves:
16. Jason Thomas (Vodacom Blue Bulls)
17. Oliver Kebble (DHL Western Province)
18. Ruan Botha (MTN Golden Lions)
19. Braam Steyn (KZN)
20. Vian van der Watt (MTN Golden Lions)
21. Handrè Pollard (DHL Western Province)
22. Tshotsho Mbovane (DHL Western Province)
23. Maks van Dyk (KZN)



The game is on Monday at 5.45 Irish time, I think its live on TG4 and possibly Sky Sports.

Young Ireland take the idea from England seniors and play for the charge down try.

Hale is it not normally a case of playing for 2nd place in the JWC after the Baby Blacks?

If anyone missed it you can get it from here.

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/IrkuMZt666/South_Africa_vs._Ireland_6-04-2012_Part_2.wmv.html

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/hmvbFqsWcB/South_Africa_vs._Ireland_6-04-2012_2nd_Half.wmv.html

The Tg4 analysts made an interesting argument, he was saying how our blockdown skills have improved an awful lot as most kids are trying out a lot of different sports. You are not really taught to block down in rugby but in GAA it's crucial. I would have to agree with that. TG4 gave great coverage, their analyst was solid (missed who it was) and their commentator was good.


Good game, Hanrahan is a star in the making. He is not the new ROG, completely different player closer to Madigan. He is a great kicker, good spatial awareness, fast hands and a decent break. Overcame a tough start with those 2 kicks out on the full (was it just me or was the pitch a bit narrow?)


Overall, Ireland were solid, Boks were solid in defence and while Ireland showed some semblance of backline play, the Boks were resolute. Very enjoyable game full of passion and intensity from Ireland. Hope we get that from the lads on Saturday and the soccer team on Sunday!

Both hookers are from Munster, they really do seem to breed more of them than most other places.


Though the second rows were excellent. Hanrahan looks like hes just stumbled out of the pub but he
has a load of potential, lets hope Munster don't knock it out of him.

Hard luck to the Baby Boks, they've some very good players but looked a bit short of ideas, sort of
like the Irish team under Kidney.

That was a magnificent game. I agree with whoever it was that suggested that a box kick from a tunnel ruck deserves to get charged down.

And only an idiot would think that you should try it against the Irish. They are crowned champions of the sneaky offside.

I'm really looking forward to the next round now!

I thought jack conan hate a fantastic game he was all over the park like a good 7 should be

Thomond wrote:The Tg4 analysts made an interesting argument, he was saying how our blockdown skills have improved an awful lot as most kids are trying out a lot of different sports. You are not really taught to block down in rugby but in GAA it's crucial. I would have to agree with that. TG4 gave great coverage, their analyst was solid (missed who it was) and their commentator was good.


Good game, Hanrahan is a star in the making. He is not the new ROG, completely different player closer to Madigan. He is a great kicker, good spatial awareness, fast hands and a decent break. Overcame a tough start with those 2 kicks out on the full (was it just me or was the pitch a bit narrow?)


Overall, Ireland were solid, Boks were solid in defence and while Ireland showed some semblance of backline play, the Boks were resolute. Very enjoyable game full of passion and intensity from Ireland. Hope we get that from the lads on Saturday and the soccer team on Sunday!

Thomond thats one thing that stood out to me a few players made mistakes early on but came back which is a good sign if they can advance to the next level of the game

I think the pitch was like Croke Park the grass goes a good bit beyond the playing area and it took a bit of getting used to

Portnoy wrote:That was a magnificent game. I agree with whoever it was that suggested that a box kick from a tunnel ruck deserves to get charged down.

And only an idiot would think that you should try it against the Irish. They are crowned champions of the sneaky offside.

I'm really looking forward to the next round now!

I think you are being wrong there, how should the baby boks know they will be offside?

That is a rather disrespectful comment to make.

Well done Ireland, the future looks bright for them even if the current Ireland national side aren't performing well at the moment.

Zander wrote:Well done Ireland, the future looks bright for them even if the current Ireland national side aren't performing well at the moment.

Once kidney goes that will change

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I thought jack conan hate a fantastic game he was all over the park like a good 7 should be

Conan was playing 8, do you mean Gilsenan?

Furlong looks like he is going to solve our TH problems anyways. Really good workrate around the pitch and to force Kitshoff to be subbed was very impressive. Especially as he has been excellent in the Super 15 anytime I've seen him this year.

Also the TG4 commentators were doing my head in when they kept thinking that Farrell was the 12!

Gilsenan was impressive, I don't really care what number a player wears, frankly I think people make far too big a deal out of the 7 thing anyway.

Freaking delighted though, great game, Ireland got a bit lucky with their tries but sure you need a bit of luck.

Leinster in TH production shocker!!

Mickado wrote:Leinster in TH production shocker!!

Where is Sin when you need him?

Congratulations Ireland (and Mr Ruddock) , commiserations Biltong

Munster are always producing great outhalfs though. Hookers too, someone else needs to take up the mantle.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I thought jack conan hate a fantastic game he was all over the park like a good 7 should be

Conan was playing 8, do you mean Gilsenan?

Oh it says up top conan is at 7 sorry bout that

Thomond wrote:Gilsenan was impressive, I don't really care what number a player wears, frankly I think people make far too big a deal out of the 7 thing anyway.

Freaking delighted though, great game, Ireland got a bit lucky with their tries but sure you need a bit of luck.

It isn't anything to do with the openside thing, it is just that the team was listed with Conan at 7 and Gilsenan at 8.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I thought jack conan hate a fantastic game he was all over the park like a good 7 should be

Conan was playing 8, do you mean Gilsenan?

Oh it says up top conan is at 7 sorry bout that

I know, it mixed up Farrell too (he was playing 13, not 12).

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I thought jack conan hate a fantastic game he was all over the park like a good 7 should be

Conan was playing 8, do you mean Gilsenan?

Oh it says up top conan is at 7 sorry bout that

I know, it mixed up Farrell too (he was playing 13, not 12).

A great "traditional" display from Ireland. If I had squinted, I swear I would have seen Fergus Slattery and Phil Matthews creating a nightmare for the babyboks SH.

Poor tactics by the BB, but great to see a periscope fail so dismally.

Group wide open, especially when you remember how close Ireland came to England in the 6Ns

That has to be the best display by any Irish rugby team for ages. Ok, the baby boks were dire - can't remember when I saw two worse SH's than the boks pair tonight. Back row brilliant, Henderson is a fantastic prospect, JJ done brill after a shaky start, Furlong fantastic. Makes you proud to see these kids front up like they did against a team that the bookies had givben a 22 point spread,. Somebody send Kidney and the team in NZ a video of that game!!!

Some of these youngsters have to get real game time in the Rabo next year - not just a game here, a bench position there. If Munster don't give JJ real game time then they will do a huge disservice, ditto the other provinces with the back row and Ulster have to give young Henderson game time - Muller could teach him so much.

Dubs back on track with the Brogans running riot, Dub hurlers on song, u20's doing a number on the boks, next NZ on Sat morning and Croatia on Monday!!!

Fantastic result. Unfortunately missed the game but will hopefully catch it somewhere.

Well done lads!

brennomac wrote:That has to be the best display by any Irish rugby team for ages. Ok, the baby boks were dire - can't remember when I saw two worse SH's than the boks pair tonight. Back row brilliant, Henderson is a fantastic prospect, JJ done brill after a shaky start, Furlong fantastic. Makes you proud to see these kids front up like they did against a team that the bookies had givben a 22 point spread,. Somebody send Kidney and the team in NZ a video of that game!!!

Some of these youngsters have to get real game time in the Rabo next year - not just a game here, a bench position there. If Munster don't give JJ real game time then they will do a huge disservice, ditto the other provinces with the back row and Ulster have to give young Henderson game time - Muller could teach him so much.

Dubs back on track with the Brogans running riot, Dub hurlers on song, u20's doing a number on the boks, next NZ on Sat morning and Croatia on Monday!!!

the u20s have England on Friday evening so hopefully theyll get a bit of payback for the 6Ns and Croatias on Sunday

marty2086 wrote:Hale is it not normally a case of playing for 2nd place in the JWC after the Baby Blacks?

No. The only objective should be to win the bloody thing. Thinking 2nd or 3rd spot is always a recipe for failure.

If Ireland have to play them in the final to win the thing, so be it. Tough luck on New Zealand.

Im not questioning the mentality what Im saying is in reality arent NZ just better than the rest at this level and havnt they won the JWC every year since it began?

Is true that all blacks winning a lot, but the competor change the format from split age group into single U20s so is not such old one for anyone to "always winning".

So final is always closest and now is change a lot the nz u20s because a lot graduating like Beauden Barret and Gareth Anscombe and Savea and others now in contendor for the senior combinator.

Now is good chance for some other one to winning and everyone shouldnt be give up and shoot for seconds.

Last year ( I think was ) Wales name the weekest team to play NZ and save up for the other games. And then was a problem because was no second place graduate to the finals but second best over all the groups. And they lost by such much points to nz that then was no chance.

But also wasnt some rule about all squad players must start one game?

So everyone just play their best and by the rules and spirit and not give up before the final please, or is spoilt for everyone.

Realistically, martys right. But I appreciate what you're trying to say Pot. And you're right although I must say if the players and coaches are looking any further ahead than an exceptionally tough match against England on Friday then we're losing the run of ourselves!

We owe them one from the Six Nations decider earlier this year, but that in itself will be a big challenge and a massive game for Ireland. Need to back this performance up, and it's a short turnaround.

I'm probably more excited about the match against England in the JWC than our test against New Zealand the next day!

Who impressed you guys most in the back row? Gilsenan would probably be my pick. Conan for his carrying.

Been and seen it now; very nervous when it was 16-16, but heigh ho, great result for Ireland. Commiserations Biltong - always seems worse when your team loses playing well below par (and we Irish have lots of experience of that).

Very impressed with JJ, after a shaky start really sorted himself out; also Henderson; back row were on fire.

Was worried they mightn't last the full 80, but they did, so conditioning coaches earned their keep in that; also impressed with the way the scrum came back after a shaky scrum near our 5m line towards the end.

I thought Ireland get away with a lot by laxing referee of the breakdown and about off-side linings where was a least one charge down try from it.

But this is about Ireland a bit more clever than junior springboks whom is my mind where a bit naive.

Will be interesting if it is next time the same or they getting kept more down by the next officials.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Who impressed you guys most in the back row? Gilsenan would probably be my pick. Conan for his carrying.

I thought all three were very good but Gilsenan was the standout for me as well.

I wonder if there is any chance one or even both of the hookers could be told to go
and play for Connacht or Ulster because Munster have more than enough of them
and both appear to have a lot of potential.

Gilsenan and Conan were both great Rory, hard to separate them in truth. I feel like Ulster are now very well covered for young hookers val. Annett is going to get more gametime this year, and this guy Herring we are meant to be signing is 21 I think, and Irish qualified too apparently.

Great result for Ireland. The Boks looked shell shocked as if they had expected an opportunity to play some champagne rugby - coaches fault? Hard luck Biltong - gracious as ever - looks like a tough semi against the holders awaits.

Looks like England or Australia to be runners up this year, both look formidable units.

Notch wrote:Gilsenan and Conan were both great Rory, hard to separate them in truth. I feel like Ulster are now very well covered for young hookers val. Annett is going to get more gametime this year, and this guy Herring we are meant to be signing is 21 I think, and Irish qualified too apparently.

But both Brady and Kyri are gone? Munster have about ten or so young hookers coming through.

Brady is definitely still on the books for next year. I understand he's winding down with a view to retirement though.

Will be interesting to see how that position is handled, especially at the start of the season when Bestie will probably be rested.

Notch wrote:Brady is definitely still on the books for next year. I understand he's winding down with a view to retirement though.

Will be interesting to see how that position is handled, especially at the start of the season when Bestie will probably be rested.

Ah I thought he was gone. Still Munster really need to share some of their second rows and hookers and Leinster really need to share some
of their backrowers around.

Also on JJ, as I said earlier he looks like he has just stumbled out of the pub but he is so cool under pressure and showed great bottle to convert from the sideline when we really needed it. He looks like he has all Rog's good things without the faults. Sort of reminiscent of Felipe Contemponi actually with the way he plays.

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see if Munster do use him at 10. I've always thought he was a playmaking 12 but they really haven't used their 12 like that in the past- that said, they have a new head coach and backs coach so who knows?

He's showed he has the full set of skills a 10/12 should have. Very excited about him.

So far, Notch, JJ has not disappointed in any game he has played, no matter what the talk before the game might have been. I think this is one of the reasons why lots of people are excited about him. Like today, he had a mare for the first ten minutes and then pulled himself together and played the rest of the match in fine order. His place kicking was superb. It will be very interesting to see what the new coaching team at Munster make of him.

As the man said "May you live in interesting times" and I think Munster fans are going to have an interesting season ahead of them - can't wait.

Notch wrote:Yeah. It'll be interesting to see if Munster do use him at 10. I've always thought he was a playmaking 12 but they really haven't used their 12 like that in the past- that said, they have a new head coach and backs coach so who knows?

He's showed he has the full set of skills a 10/12 should have. Very excited about him.

He is the type of 12 that earls would thrive alongside. His hands are lightening fast. I think he sees himself as a 10 but he really does remind me of Contemponi with his build and the way he plays so I don't think its too outrageous to suggest he will be capable of making a good effort in both positions.

I think that one of Hanrahan or Madigan will have to shift to 12 in the future. I would say Madigan is the better option.

As for Gilsenan, the chances of him getting any game time after his U20s campaign is going to be very slim is it not? His development could take a pretty big hit. Unless he is considered as the replacement for Jennings, as Jennings isn't getting any younger.

Hanrahan seems to be regarded primarily as a 12.
I agree he was excellent yesterday.

Jackson 10
Hanrahan 12
Farrell 13 seems to be the preferred option.

Horan didn't offer much in the centre
I agree also Gilsenan look good.
Please with the Ulster boys, I thought Bierne did well as well.
The 6/7 are a funny pair - the impressive mixed in with far too many missed tackles.

Merry nearly blew it for us with giving away the most stupid of penalties.
Don't like losing my cool at kids but I did then .

Hanrahan plays outhalf for Bohs and looked far more impressive at 10 than he has done at 12 in this team. He has a tendency to get drawn into rucks though and Marmion had to take on some of the decision making responsibility, which I thought he did as well as I've seen him.

On the Ulster lads, much as I'd like Farrell to do well, I've been underwhelmed by him and don't really see too much to get excited about. He looks to be as tall as Henderson now but size isn't everything.
More excited by Nelson, who apart from a nervous slice into touch, played some intelligent rugby.
Henderson was mightily impressive with his work rate especially at the breakdown. He is exactly the sort of player this tournament benefits.

I thought McGrath injected some pace into the game when he came on. I hope he starts against England, he also gives another very good kicking option.

Anyone notice that Foster Horan was about the same size as Iain Henderson? He didn't have a stand out game or anything, but he is bloody massive!

http://www.tg4.ie/en/tg4-player/tg4-player.html?id=1673151590001&title=U-20%20World%20Cup


For anyone who didn't catch the game or wants to watch it again!

Rory, I was kind of making a general point about the whole backrow when I was talking about Gilsenan. The only thing I'm disapoointed with is that there were only 3 Musnter fellas involved last night. I know Munster rarely get shed loads of guys involved at this age but still not great.

Ok hang on, was it Chris Farrell at 13? I know Horan is listed as 13 above but checking the stats he's on 5"11' and our outside center was not 5"11'!!!