Rio throwing his toys out of the pram

First topic message reminder :

Via representatives

Ferdinand's representative: "To treat a player that has captained & served his country 81 times like this is nothing short of disgraceful."
"Total lack of respect from Hodgson & The FA as far as I'm concerned."

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:And Richards is a good center half.

Whilst I think Richards should have been selected ahead of Kelly it has been a long time since he regularly played at centre half and he isn't first choice at right back for city, so all in all he can have few complaints at being over looked.

Is Kelly first choice at 'Pool?

No he only made 12 appearances though this season. Doesn't change the fact Richards isn't first choice for city.

He can't complain about someone elses good fortune really.

Oh well. 2 second choice right backs. One finished on top of the table and the other ended up 30 points behind.

It's probably a good thing Micah isn;t going as England will be embarrassed anyway. Plus Kelly is frankly Championship standard.

I think Kelly from what I've seen is better than Championship standard. I wish him all the best, one of the few Liverpool players I actually like being a utd fan

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:And Richards is a good center half.

Whilst I think Richards should have been selected ahead of Kelly it has been a long time since he regularly played at centre half and he isn't first choice at right back for city, so all in all he can have few complaints at being over looked.

Is Kelly first choice at 'Pool?

No he only made 12 appearances though this season. Doesn't change the fact Richards isn't first choice for city.

He can't complain about someone elses good fortune really.

Oh well. 2 second choice right backs. One finished on top of the table and the other ended up 30 points behind.

It's probably a good thing Micah isn;t going as England will be embarrassed anyway. Plus Kelly is frankly Championship standard.

I agree he should go, I disagree that he can complain about it as he isn't first choice for his club.

I agree Kelly is fortunate to get the call up.

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:

Ent wrote:

azania wrote:And Richards is a good center half.

Whilst I think Richards should have been selected ahead of Kelly it has been a long time since he regularly played at centre half and he isn't first choice at right back for city, so all in all he can have few complaints at being over looked.

Is Kelly first choice at 'Pool?

No he only made 12 appearances though this season. Doesn't change the fact Richards isn't first choice for city.

He can't complain about someone elses good fortune really.

Oh well. 2 second choice right backs. One finished on top of the table and the other ended up 30 points behind.

It's probably a good thing Micah isn;t going as England will be embarrassed anyway. Plus Kelly is frankly Championship standard.

Have you actually watched him when he has played? It doesn't sound like you have. I can't recall a single mistake Kelly has made, and whenever he plays he is often impressive both defensively and offensively.

Richards is obviously the superior player, but to claim Kelly is Championship standard just stinks of this anti-Liverpool sentiment that has developed because of their players being picked.

I'm not anti Liverpool. I've seen him play once or twice and he doesn't strike me as anything special. Mind you I haven't been keeping an eye on him. If he is second choice at 'Pool and their first choice is really not international standard, I can't see for the life of me how he is going and especially above a superior player.

But hey, I support Arsenal and we're still paying Abu Diaby wages and displaying 'mental' strength.

Joining this debate a bit late, but utterly ridiculous comments from Rio's representative IMO.
Not selecting him is not 'disrespectful'. What is he trying to say, that Ferdinand should automatically get into the squad because of what he's done in the past?
Well, if his England career wasn't already over, it certainly is now I should think. Total arrogance.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Joining this debate a bit late, but utterly ridiculous comments from Rio's representative IMO.
Not selecting him is not 'disrespectful'. What is he trying to say, that Ferdinand should automatically get into the squad because of what he's done in the past?
Well, if his England career wasn't already over, it certainly is now I should think. Total arrogance.

Should read the whole thread for responses to this.

Ent

It doesn't matter why he's been left out. He's been left out. He has no divine right to be in the squad so if he is not selected FOR WHATEVER REASON, that's just tough, and it's not a case of him being 'treated disgracefully' or of Hodgson and the FA being 'disrespectful'.

Exactly Hoggy. Smacks of arrogance. Better off rid if this is his attitude.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Ent

It doesn't matter why he's been left out. He's been left out. He has no divine right to be in the squad so if he is not selected FOR WHATEVER REASON, that's just tough, and it's not a case of him being 'treated disgracefully' or of Hodgson and the FA being 'disrespectful'.

I disagree and it is not the fact he has been left out, it's the fact he has been lied to as of why.

I do agree he should have kept his thoughts to himself though.

Rio used to have a habit of switching off / losing focus during games, resulting in either giving the ball away for a goal /shot on target ... or a free kick / penalty when trying to retrieve the situation. Maybe once or twice during a game. However, I think John Terry is quite a bit passed his best and a bit slow. Rio still retains his speed and is quite good at turning defence into attack. But as Sir Ferguson says Rio can't be expected to play so many games in quick succession - due to the liklihood of his body breaking down - he has been off for a significant length of time due to injury in recent years.

England need to be searching for players to replace both of them.

Ps Hodgson said that Rio had been left out for "purely footballing reason" and that his inability to play so many games in quick succession was not a factor in the decision (?).

It is a purely footballing reason in that case. Roy probably doesn't want to increase tensions in the dressing room with Rio and Terry around. Poor choice picking Terry in that case.

Nore Staat wrote:Rio used to have a habit of switching off / losing focus during games, resulting in either giving the ball away for a goal /shot on target ... or a free kick / penalty when trying to retrieve the situation. Maybe once or twice during a game.

Unless you are going back to his teens I don't think thats true.

He is still an absolutely fantastic player and as a united fan I'm glad he will be getting a good rest over the summer.

I do feel he has been treated badly by the England set up (again) though.

Ent wrote:... I do feel he has been treated badly by the England set up ...

I did find the reason why Rio was left out a little puzzling as it suggested it had nothing to do with fitness and lasting the course, but solely due to footballing reasons, which I assume means Roy Hodgson doesn't think Rio was playing as well as others during the latter part of the footballing season.

Nore Staat wrote:

Ent wrote:... I do feel he has been treated badly by the England set up ...

I did find the reason why Rio was left out a little puzzling as it suggested it had nothing to do with fitness and lasting the course, but solely due to footballing reasons, which I assume means Roy Hodgson doesn't think Rio was playing as well as others during the latter part of the footballing season.

Which is weird because for me he was the stand out england centre half last season.

Nore Staat wrote:

Ent wrote:... I do feel he has been treated badly by the England set up ...

I did find the reason why Rio was left out a little puzzling as it suggested it had nothing to do with fitness and lasting the course, but solely due to footballing reasons, which I assume means Roy Hodgson doesn't think Rio was playing as well as others during the latter part of the footballing season.

Not really true is it though, he has been playing very well.

He wants to take Terry, I've no issue with this as it is the managers decision - but to basically lie to Rio about it whilst he is being left out for non-footballing reasons not of his own making would be hard to take.

He has just got to get on with it now, hopefully he is motivated to prove he can still perform at the top level rather than demotivated as it is unlikely he will win his place back at his age.

If the twitter was via representatives - I am sure Rio Ferdinand himself wouldn't sanction the comments or would have liked these comments to be sent out in such a way that it could reflect back on him. Ferdinand seems to be very careful in what he says and appears to conduct himself with a fair measure of grace.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Via representatives

Ferdinand's representative: "To treat a player that has captained & served his country 81 times like this is nothing short of disgraceful."
"Total lack of respect from Hodgson & The FA as far as I'm concerned."

(Haven't read through the entire thread so sorry if someone's already brought this up)

Rio's fitness is suspect, his own club manager said he couldn't manage 2 games in 4 days so not taking him is just common sense by Roy. Lost a lot of respect for Rio now.

Duty281 wrote:

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Via representatives

Ferdinand's representative: "To treat a player that has captained & served his country 81 times like this is nothing short of disgraceful."
"Total lack of respect from Hodgson & The FA as far as I'm concerned."

(Haven't read through the entire thread so sorry if someone's already brought this up)

Rio's fitness is suspect, his own club manager said he couldn't manage 2 games in 4 days so not taking him is just common sense by Roy. Lost a lot of respect for Rio now.

Arg! if you read the thread you would realise Ferguson never said this, thinks he should go to the tournament and Rio has played 5 games in 22 days (the tournament is potentially 6 in 21-23 days) twice since March!

Ent wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Via representatives

Ferdinand's representative: "To treat a player that has captained & served his country 81 times like this is nothing short of disgraceful."
"Total lack of respect from Hodgson & The FA as far as I'm concerned."

(Haven't read through the entire thread so sorry if someone's already brought this up)

Rio's fitness is suspect, his own club manager said he couldn't manage 2 games in 4 days so not taking him is just common sense by Roy. Lost a lot of respect for Rio now.

Arg! if you read the thread you would realise Ferguson never said this, thinks he should go to the tournament and Rio has played 5 games in 22 days (the tournament is potentially 6 in 21-23 days) twice since March!

What about this then.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18044588

Gotta hand it to Fergie. Always looking out for Man U. He couldn't give a hoot about England and wants Rio fit and ready for the next season. Quite right too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17938159

Not sure what changed in 10 days.

I think the continued non-selection of Ferdinand is proof that there was more at play than just picking the best set of players. There really is no argument that can be made for picking Martin Kelly over Rio Ferdinand for this tournament. Clearly Hodgson felt he had to select between Terry and Ferdinand, rightly or wrongly. In my view, the reason for choosing Terry was the potential for the settled Chelsea trio of Terry/Cahill/Cole to start throughout the tournament, which is sound footballing logic. I don't think it was about picking between them as individuals.

We can debate the morality of choosing Terry all day but I do think he just needed to choose 1 and picked Terry for these "footballing reasons" as he claimed.

The treatment of Ferdinand has been poor and I think someone should have contacted him and explained the decision, he has surely earned the right to some communication and courtesy. After the Capello captaincy issue and this, he must be well and truly fed up with England.

Kelly can lay RB. Rio can't. Our current RBs are Glen Johnson nursing an injury and Phil Jones.

You don't need 3 right backs in a 23 man squad. Rio can play CB a lot better than Kelly can.

Jones can play either. And given the spate of injuries we've had, having cover for an already injured player is smart.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Jones can play either. And given the spate of injuries we've had, having cover for an already injured player is smart.

Is Jones that good though?

I'd rather have 1.5 RB + 4.5 CB than 2.5+3.5. A CB covering RB is preferable to the other way round and you could always use a midfielder at RB in case of emergency (Milner, Parker). Not at CB. You don't mess around at CB.

Awful behaviour from Rio, complete lack of class (not that he's ever had any).

Gregers wrote:Awful behaviour from Rio, complete lack of class (not that he's ever had any).

Not sure why you say that he is a very well respected pro and a popular guy.

I do feel white suits and contract wranglings are unfairly held against rio.

Anyway he has class on the pitch, which is what matters.

Maybe Roys non selection of Ferdinand was influenced by his No2.

Goodness, why is this being debated? It's purely a political decision. If you needed cover for your front line CBs (assuming Cahill and Terry were ahead) you take your next best alternative, Rio Ferdinand. Unless he publically came out and said he didn't want to be a bit part player, then that's totally different.

Rio has started 36 games this season, and without the incomparable Vidic by his side he's been a rock at the heart of United's defence. He should be in the squad, no question about it.

Despite all of these arguments, England's defence is still reasonable:

RBs Johnson Jones
LBs Bains Cole
CBs Terry, Lescott, Jageyelka & Jones (again).

Basically, Martin Kelly shouldn't even get a game hopefully.

Ent wrote:

Gregers wrote:Awful behaviour from Rio, complete lack of class (not that he's ever had any).

Not sure why you say that he is a very well respected pro and a popular guy.

I do feel white suits and contract wranglings are unfairly held against rio.

Anyway he has class on the pitch, which is what matters.

On the pitch yes, off it he's a tool. Not sure why he's come out and decided to moan. Looking back most of us wouldn't have taken terry or Rio so he would have moaned at that. Does Rio expect to go to the world cup in 2 years time regardless of how he's playing as well?

What this does show is that the players expect to be picked on name value when realistically we should be looking at picking the best line up possible.

As i have said on another thread

What long term benefit do England get from calling up a 33 reserve who wont play. Kelly barring in injuries will be in future squads and so the experience of going will help him and the nation.

This is a tactic used by many other countries, far more successful than England

Kelly was picked because he had already been training with the squad for the Belgium game! Ferdinand wasn't! Kelly wasn't already on holiday, where as Ferdinand likely was. The problem isn't Martin Kelly being brought up, it's Terry being chosen over Ferdinand.

Kelly probably won't play although to be honest, I wouldn't be worried at all if he was called up to play, he has shown across the year that when called up because of injuries he can perform really well.

Gregers wrote:

Ent wrote:

Gregers wrote:Awful behaviour from Rio, complete lack of class (not that he's ever had any).

Not sure why you say that he is a very well respected pro and a popular guy.

I do feel white suits and contract wranglings are unfairly held against rio.

Anyway he has class on the pitch, which is what matters.

On the pitch yes, off it he's a tool. Not sure why he's come out and decided to moan. Looking back most of us wouldn't have taken terry or Rio so he would have moaned at that. Does Rio expect to go to the world cup in 2 years time regardless of how he's playing as well?

What this does show is that the players expect to be picked on name value when realistically we should be looking at picking the best line up possible.

What? The guy is class off the pitch. The amount of work he does combating youth crime is great, especially in Peckham. Off the pitch the guy is a credit. He also has times for fans and always signs autographs when asked. He is always approachable and not up himself of bouncing off grannies for a fee.

Gregers wrote:

Ent wrote:

Gregers wrote:Awful behaviour from Rio, complete lack of class (not that he's ever had any).

Not sure why you say that he is a very well respected pro and a popular guy.

I do feel white suits and contract wranglings are unfairly held against rio.

Anyway he has class on the pitch, which is what matters.

On the pitch yes, off it he's a tool. Not sure why he's come out and decided to moan. Looking back most of us wouldn't have taken terry or Rio so he would have moaned at that. Does Rio expect to go to the world cup in 2 years time regardless of how he's playing as well?

What this does show is that the players expect to be picked on name value when realistically we should be looking at picking the best line up possible.

He is in good form and fit, I don't think he would complain about not being selected if he wasn't.

Rio made mistakes when younger (who hasn't) but has grown up into a model pro and a good guy (for a footballer). Lets be honest most of the England squad lack genuine class (both on and off the pitch).

At the end of the day this is political and not a footballing matter, simple.

So we all complain about needing to pick for the future. Then when we do pick for the future, we complain about the old guy not getting picked. Crazy. Rio is past it, he will never be picked for England again. Get over it. We need to look to the future.

Terry is not the future. Rio's style can see him playing at the top for another 2 years easily. Even if he is not at his very best, his current level is better than all other CBs picked.

olly the tractor boy wrote:So we all complain about needing to pick for the future. Then when we do pick for the future, we complain about the old guy not getting picked. Crazy. Rio is past it, he will never be picked for England again. Get over it. We need to look to the future.

So you don't pick the best players available for a tournament?

I think this tournament should be the last for a number of players in my view, and the next two years should be purely built around younger players ready for Brazil.

My new line-up after this tournament would be:

Hart

Walker Cahill Smalling/Jones Cole/Baines

Parker/Rodwell Wilshere/Cleverly


Lennon/Johnson Rooney Young

Welbeck

Ent wrote:

olly the tractor boy wrote:So we all complain about needing to pick for the future. Then when we do pick for the future, we complain about the old guy not getting picked. Crazy. Rio is past it, he will never be picked for England again. Get over it. We need to look to the future.

So you don't pick the best players available for a tournament?

Depends what you see as the best players? Form has to be a factor as well?

olly the tractor boy wrote:

Ent wrote:

olly the tractor boy wrote:So we all complain about needing to pick for the future. Then when we do pick for the future, we complain about the old guy not getting picked. Crazy. Rio is past it, he will never be picked for England again. Get over it. We need to look to the future.

So you don't pick the best players available for a tournament?

Depends what you see as the best players? Form has to be a factor as well?

Name a centre back in better form than Rio?

Ent wrote:

olly the tractor boy wrote:

Ent wrote:

olly the tractor boy wrote:So we all complain about needing to pick for the future. Then when we do pick for the future, we complain about the old guy not getting picked. Crazy. Rio is past it, he will never be picked for England again. Get over it. We need to look to the future.

So you don't pick the best players available for a tournament?

Depends what you see as the best players? Form has to be a factor as well?

Name a centre back in better form than Rio?

Grant Holt?

martyr_94 wrote:I think this tournament should be the last for a number of players in my view, and the next two years should be purely built around younger players ready for Brazil.

My new line-up after this tournament would be:

Hart

Walker Cahill Smalling/Jones Cole/Baines

Parker/Rodwell Wilshere/Cleverly


Lennon/Johnson Rooney Young

Welbeck

Wouldn't have Welbeck near the team and Parker is simply not good enough. Oxlade should be there. Wilshire ahead of Cleverly. Rooney as the main striker.

azania wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:I think this tournament should be the last for a number of players in my view, and the next two years should be purely built around younger players ready for Brazil.

My new line-up after this tournament would be:

Hart

Walker Cahill Smalling/Jones Cole/Baines

Parker/Rodwell Wilshere/Cleverly


Lennon/Johnson Rooney Young

Welbeck

Wouldn't have Welbeck near the team and Parker is simply not good enough. Oxlade should be there. Wilshire ahead of Cleverly. Rooney as the main striker.

Think Welbeck has got a real chance of becoming a top player, got 12 goals for united in his first main season, including CL goals and goals against Arsenal, city, spurs. Just got his first international goal, could be a real threat in 2 years - deserves the chance anyway.

Oxlade has something like 6 career starts, need to be careful with him. He is more Walcott than Rooney.

Wilshire/Cleverly neither will be fit at this rate.

Agree on Parker, glorified clogger.

Perhaps I'm too harsh on Welbeck. But whenever I've seen him he doesn't look the part. Wilshire will be a world beater if he comes thru his injury and carries on where he left off. People are too quick to write off Walcott. He's playing as a winger which is not his best or favoured position. He will do damage up front.

azania wrote:Perhaps I'm too harsh on Welbeck. But whenever I've seen him he doesn't look the part. Wilshire will be a world beater if he comes thru his injury and carries on where he left off. People are too quick to write off Walcott. He's playing as a winger which is not his best or favoured position. He will do damage up front.

I don't really see what Wilshire has done to deserve this level of praise, oxlade either for that matter.

Not saying Walcott will not make it but Rooney has been a first choice key player for England from he was 16, Oxlade won't be doing that.

Why don't you think Welbeck looks the part, he has stepped up to ever level of football he has played at and continually improved.

Wilshere is a very good player. The injury last season was unfortunate but the season before he was very good. I particularly remember his performance against Barcelona at The Emirates in the Champions League when he was the best midfielder on the park.

I don't know why people think Walcott will be a good striker. He has pace yes but in one on one situations he simply does not have the composure to take most of the chances that come to him to be a top international striker, never mind for his club.

Trouble is, his crossing is so inconsistent from the right that he has to rely on his pace so much so that I think he should always be used as an impact sub. I just think bad to when he came on against Liverpool a few years back and went on that run, that's what he can do in the last 15-20 mins and when he can be a real threat. Starting however, not for me.