The NH teams must sneak a win or two down south.

So by tomorrow Australia will be taking on Scotland in a one off test before Scotland head home to face Fiji and Samoa. Australia in the mean time will have to face Wales only 5 days later.

All this amidst a Super XV competition that has been halted in midstride to quickly polish off three weeks of test rugby.

Effectively Robbie Deans has 1 day to prepare for Scotland, then 3 days to prepare for Wales as three of his Franchises were still playing Super Rugby this past weekend.

To make matters worse some of his greatest playmakers will not be available as they are either still injured or hasn’t had enough game time.

Injury list for Australia: James O’Connor, Quade Cooper.

South Africa on the other hand has a few days more to prepare for England who will be chomping at the bit, to gain a much needed away victory against SA. But Heyeneke Meyer himself has quite a few challenges to face. His two stalwarts Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez has (thankfully) declined to front up, and due to injuries in his forwards he will be without Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Duane Vermeulen, Jean Deysel and Andries Bekker.

Surely with so little time to prepare and so many first class players not available in the forward pack, England must fancy their chances.
Hansen himself is not going to have it easy even against an Ireland team that has never beaten the All Blacks, however some injuries and lack of preparation may just work to the advantage of Decclan Kidney.

The reason why this is happening, and in my opinion very poorly planned is obviously to do with money, but in all honesty as much as I am looking forward to it, it seems ridiculous that it has been planned this way.

What it does provide though, is an opportunity for the NH teams to sneak a win down south. It will be the best opportunity for the NH to gain ground on their SH counterparts and it should make for interesting viewing.

I can’t wait.

Biltong,HI,fully agree the way it has been arranged is disgraceful,also at the same time more or less as the JWC.BUT the depth of SA and NZ in players is legend.Wallabies maybe short of a couple of backs BUT they are never short in that area.Of the NH sides in SH Wales have the most settled side and probably the best chance of a win.The Boks so many players new to me cannot comment on the squad much,BUT.They will be solid up front,have a good defence,and great Goalkickers at home that will be enough.Scotland will probably
pick up wins somewhere but not v SA.
All Blacks selection is so conservative you may not see a single new face except at Lock of the bench.Ireland are in rebuild mode as well be very surprised if the ABs drop a test.BUT they are notoriously slow starters so this maybe the one
Ireland will win if there going to.
NZ in NZ stats are frighteningly small on winning there for anyone only 4 national sides achieving it.

I did say on another thread that this is the best time that any NH team will have to get atleast 1 win against the SH teams.

I just hope that who ever NH team gets a win do so convincingly. But if they win by 1 point or 10 points, it will simply be great for NH rugby.

Australia have the worst preparation/squad disruption and thus appear most likely to lose a match.

Wales have to have the self belief that they can win the series, surely they will never have a better chance?

Ireland may struggle as injuries and lack of depth in key positions may hurt - but again this weekend is perhaps the best chance they will ever get to win in NZ.

Finally England. There seems to be a lot of pessimism from Bok and English fans about their team's prospects. Personally I cannot see England winning as I do not see we have enough grunt up front and am unsure what points we will score against an organised SA defence other than Farrell penalties. The second and third matches could be really painfull for England fans.

My honest views are:

1) I actually fancy Scotland to beat Australia but i think it could be close...
A key element for me is Scotlands back row. Barclay at 8 means they will lack some grunt initially, but alternatively means with two fetchers..could steal more vital turnovers to keep the game interesting. A big Front row, Ritchie gray is class...and an interesting backline could see Scotland sneak it.

2) Wales to beat Australia in the Series
Wales are looking very strong...a powerful pack...a fetcher to match Pocock and backs with skills and power...generally having top class players all over the pitch. Australia lacking preparation.

3) NZ to beat ireland
Ireland missing a couple of key players...(but have some talent coming through...and NZ rebuilding after the WC win...this is a tough one. I expect the kiwis to win...but Ireland could get at them.

4) Boks to beat England 2-1
Two teams in rebuilding...with possibly England further down the line. A strong performance in the 6n..with criticism of a lack of offence. Do we lack a physicality? Possibly...but it wasnt an obvious weakness against the like of Wales and Ireland etc. The boks will be a test of that. I think England will win one test...possibly the last if the series is already won by SA.

With the heart of their team missing - Bowe, POC, Ferris and maybe Ross plus others I honestly dont think Ireland have a hope.

If their is to be a NH win, against a Tri Nations side, it will be Wales in Australia or England in SA

Geoff totally agree. Looking at the SA squad for this one and given the first test is at sea level I actually think England may have the best chance for a opening test win.

That said as a Welsh fan I really do think we need to make a statement in that opening test against Australia or it could all be over. I think we will win that one as they play Scotland 5 days before.

Ireland dont really stand a chance. The All Blacks will only get better (as all the SH teams) and I cant see them winning that opening test. Ill be impressed if they can keep it to a score.

The first week will determine the tours. If the NH sides can win that the pressure will be on the SH sides. Lose that one and your on a way to a series hiding.

The thing about Ireland is not that they are lingering in a no-man's land between the past of so much hope (and yet, in truth, so little to show for it) and the future of question marks. The truth is that even without the future being sufficiently bedded-in (young players still waiting for caps or a sufficient number of them) the potential behind the curtain is still much more of a rich vein than anything that has gone before.

Now it's true that many sides could offer up a similar excuse but when you judge history - no, in authentic terms, not so. Other sides have had their real heydays, times they now try to recapture with each passing decade. But Ireland have generally always underperformed but mostly in the comfort of knowing we didn't really have the players available to us to do anything else except valiantly underperform.

This future is different. We are still growing as a Rugby Union Nation, we are beginning to achieve 'real' quantifiable successes at it (the growth and growth at European level); we all believe we have better options not being picked right now than some of those always chosen by the current coaches. Most of us certainly believe we have a better blueprint available to us of how to play the game...again, that seems to be taking us time at coaching level to realise.

We may indeed lose all three games to The All Blacks...but with each passing year, Irish rugby is growing, not retreating - and that All Black record will be less safe through this decade than the last one.

I don't know fly I think Ireland are in very serious trouble.... we've hit a critical mass of bad results and now expectation is low, defeats are the norm and real beatings are back on the agenda.

From the hammering by England in 2003 until the 2007 RWC we very rarely lost and if we did it was usually by a score. Even the depressing 2007/8 season looks good compared to now and 2009 looks more and more like a blip in an otherwise downward spiral which is getting close to bottoming out.

Yes the chink of light is the provinces, particularly Leinster and the young guys coming through but the National side really needs to produce something big and get some results to arrest this decline before it becomes terminal........

rodders wrote:I don't know fly I think Ireland are in very serious trouble.... we've hit a critical mass of bad results and now expectation is low, defeats are the norm and real beatings are back on the agenda.

From the hammering by England in 2003 until the 2007 RWC we very rarely lost and if we did it was usually by a score. Even the depressing 2007/8 season looks good compared to now and 2009 looks more and more like a blip in an otherwise downward spiral which is getting close to bottoming out.

Yes the chink of light is the provinces, particularly Leinster and the young guys coming through but the National side really needs to produce something big and get some results to arrest this decline before it becomes terminal........

My point is that the past was designed by a few very good players doing more than their jobsworth (as the saying goes) to keep us artificially higher than we might have been. O'Driscoll for one has been worth much more than his body-weight in gold.

The Noughties were one decade. In no way can they be described as our heyday. We perennially 'underachieved' at 6N level given that France constantly stepped on our toes to stop our run at Championships or Slams... we 'underachived' at the WCs. We didn't add that one win against the All Blacks in those 'heady days' either. Why? Because it was just the next decade on from the one before.... it was still only progress being made and learned from.

Of course we were, for a brief period, 3rd ranked side in the world in the Noughties and are now down to 8th under Kidney...but I don't believe it's a downward spiral because I don't think the Noughties were sufficiently heady to have to endure a downward spiral from. It's a downward blip on a graph that has been going up since the 70s, 80's and 90's. It' passable, we WILL pass it..and when we do, people will be wondering what all the fuss was about. Will we be the best in the world? I strongly doubt it. But will we be closer to the top than now through the next seven to ten years? I believe we will.

With the exception of Ireland, I'd say that the HNs have a good chance of beating some of these potentially experimental/understrength/ill-prepared sides down under.

Whether in the scheme of things it'll be worth a tinker's cuss is another matter - but there are some monkeys there to be shed.

Best chances? Wales by a country mile.

Portnoy wrote:With the exception of Ireland, I'd say that the HNs have a good chance of beating some of these potentially experimental/understrength/ill-prepared sides down under.

Whether in the scheme of things it'll be worth a tinker's cuss is another matter - but there are some monkeys there to be shed.

Best chances? Wales by a country mile.

Hmmm, I'd go England myself.

Bloody hell are you telling me we worse worse in the 70's and 80's than we were in the 90's!

Maybe you are right fly. I jsut think we are at a cross roads and have been for a few seasons.... stuck between looking backwards and looking forwards.

Unfortunately the IRFU want quick fixes and short term wins, for financial reasons, and they think they can do it by patching BOD, POC, D'arcy, ROG etc. together rather than bite the bullet and start building for the next decade in the hope that our next generation, will in time be better than the last.

I have mixed feelings, on one hand I want BOD, POC etc. to have indian summers and go out with a bang but on the other I feel we are just kicking the can down the line......

rodders wrote:Bloody hell are you telling me we worse worse in the 70's and 80's than we were in the 90's!

Maybe you are right fly. I jsut think we are at a cross roads and have been for a few seasons.... stuck between looking backwards and looking forwards.

Unfortunately the IRFU want quick fixes and short term wins, for financial reasons, and they think they can do it by patching BOD, POC, D'arcy, ROG etc. together rather than bite the bullet and start building for the next decade in the hope that our next generation, will in time be better than the last.

I have mixed feelings, on one hand I want BOD, POC etc. to have indian summers and go out with a bang but on the other I feel we are just kicking the can down the line......

Oh I agree with your reading of the NOW, Rodders. I'm one of the most vocal set on the problems of the NOW. You're right about all that...but I just think that the present seldom tends to look at overviews...and as an overview, I see the graph going up. And despite the individuals who are clogging up the true route in the present - the future will find its way, like the ivy stalk bypassing the rusty barb wire to get to the tree. The future will find its way. We're much more a real rugby nation now than in ye olde 70s, 80s and 90s... I watched too much rubbish passing for rugby in those days to have a different view on that one

Wales may win.

I don't know enough about the SA side to guess that series.

As for Ireland I think that the French saying will hold true. No scrum no win. Without POC and the fabulous Ferris I thought we still had some kind of chance. Without Ross? No. Miracles sometimes do happen in sport, but I don't expect one.

I think the England and Wales series will be quite tight, both could nick a game but ultimately I would be a little surprised if either won the series, although they could go either way.

SA and England are both missing a few big players, both have a lot of fresh faces and both will probably play to a negative game plan. Selections will be key for both sides, but I expect both coaches will go safety first. I expect 3 close games. If I had to put money down I'd back home advantage in all 3 but not by much of a margin, so England have a real chance of nicking a game, perhaps the series but this is unlikely. All 3 games will probably be quite low scoring, unless game 3 is a dead rubber.

Wales have a great chance to upset Australia given the mass of key injuries the Aussies have suffered and the absurd schedule they are facing. I'd still back the home side though, they have enough class about them. The first test will be the big opportunity, Aus will have probably at least half the same side as tomorrow, so will be fatigued. If Wales are within 10 points at 60 minutes they have to fancy their chances. Then if they win the first test you never know, but with a full week rest and prep and players coming back in, Australia will be much stronger in the second and third games.

I'm sorry but I don't give Ireland any chance at all. I wouldn't give many sides a chance in NZ v NZ. The depth of the NZ squad is ridiculous. They probably have 3 players in every position who would do a very good job. Ireland at full capacity might have a chance of a result if they played to their strengths, but they are missing key players and wont play to their strengths. If Ireland get within 10 points in any of the 3 games I'll be amazed. That doesn't mean individuals can't come back with some credit. I'd expect O'Brien to front up and impress again.

PM for fly!

Ireland will get battered 3-0, Wales may win 2-1 but I suspect they'll lose 2-1 and England will beat the Springboks at least 2-1. Scotland to get hammered tomorrow.

Intotouch wrote:
As for Ireland I think that the French saying will hold true. No scrum no win.

As the French said to the Australians who turned up in France in 2010

In many ways, Scotland might have good chance against Oz. They (Oz) will imo be in each of the "potentially experimental/understrength/ill-prepared" categories.

But Scotland is now overall a very poor side. But who knows? Once again a promising S/A International period and more likely than not, another thumping in the 6Ns...

PM for you Rodders.

Ireland were quite good in the 70's. Beat Australia in Australia, got our only draw against New Zealand, won two 5 Nations Championships (one shared), and could have won a third. Beat England and France in 71, but then Wales and Scotland wouldn't play us.

And we were half decent in the 80's as far as I know. In the 90's we were appalling. So I don't agree that there was an upward trend from the 70's to the 00's. There was a steep downward trend from the 70's to the 90's then a jump up in quality in the 00's. But remember, for most of the 00's England, Wales and Scotland were weaker than they are now, and we had O'Driscoll making the difference in many games.

But I do agree with Fly that the domestic foundations of Irish rugby are stronger than they've ever been. We producing more depth than ever (except for prop). Add in the fact that we play more tests against New Zealand than ever and I think the first win will come soon.

But not this year. We're playing cr@p. It'll take an unprepared, rusty and complacent Kiwi performance in the first test plus our best performance in years for us to have any hope of a victory. But in reality I think we're going to get flogged three times and Kidney will be a lame duck waiting for his contract to end a year later.

I think England will go down 3-0 but will play well and will leave with their reputations intact and lessons learned.

Do Wales play Australia 3 times? If so I think Wales will win 2-1.

SecretFly wrote:

Intotouch wrote:
As for Ireland I think that the French saying will hold true. No scrum no win.

As the French said to the Australians who turned up in France in 2010

I didn't say it was always true. I said it would be true in this case.

Do you remember how awful France were that night? All they had was their scrum. They fell apart. There's no way that NZ will be that terrible, especially in defense.

What will the repercussion for the NH be if they don't come away with any wins?

They had a warm up game, although not with their first Xv's, but they are travelling to SA and OZ specifically with an opportunity to catch these two teams cold.

On the one hand you could argue a win will have more significance due to their poor away records and will give them an almighty boost in confidence.

A loss would just mean they still can't compete away from home and wouldn't damage their psyche that much.

Ireland are not managing succession though.

Picking DOC and McCarthy instead of blooding Tuohy.
Crossing everything praying that Ross has Hayes like properties wityh respect to keeping fit - he doesn't. With the conseqeunce that Fitzpatrick could be making his debut against the All Blacks.
Taking ROG but not Madigan.

When the last of the so called 'golden generation' depart - POC, DOC, BOD, ROG, D'Arcy we could fall off a cliff not because the players aren't good enough but because they have not been brought through correctly in order to take the old stagers places

Intotouch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Intotouch wrote:
As for Ireland I think that the French saying will hold true. No scrum no win.

As the French said to the Australians who turned up in France in 2010

I didn't say it was always true. I said it would be true in this case.

Do you remember how awful France were that night? All they had was their scrum. They fell apart. There's no way that NZ will be that terrible, especially in defense.

I did get your point - believe me, I did get it (being Irish, the scrum is a wincer) but I was being a little humourous in the reference. France weren't so bad actually though; more a case of France were overly arrogant on that occasion...they simply went into the game with that maxim you quoted ringing in their ears. The only problem was Australia had the ammo to go around that particular wall and make it virtually redundant as a weapon. France weren't ready for a Plan B night and yes, imploded. But it was Australia that was in the driving seat for that game...mostly in tactics and how you can ruin a good maxim with proper preparation

biltongbek wrote:What will the repercussion for the NH be if they don't come away with any wins?

They had a warm up game, although not with their first Xv's, but they are travelling to SA and OZ specifically with an opportunity to catch these two teams cold.

On the one hand you could argue a win will have more significance due to their poor away records and will give them an almighty boost in confidence.

A loss would just mean they still can't compete away from home and wouldn't damage their psyche that much.

Form an England perspective I'm far more concerned about performances than results. If we play well and lose tight games there won't be any damage done. I'll be very happy if we show some adventure and fair, even if the result doesn't go our way. The only situation which will worry me is if we attempt to play a horrible negative game and get thumped anyway. Which could happen. But I'm optimistic of improved performances.

biltongbek wrote:What will the repercussion for the NH be if they don't come away with any wins?

They had a warm up game, although not with their first Xv's, but they are travelling to SA and OZ specifically with an opportunity to catch these two teams cold.

On the one hand you could argue a win will have more significance due to their poor away records and will give them an almighty boost in confidence.

A loss would just mean they still can't compete away from home and wouldn't damage their psyche that much.

I'd say England have a reputation to Gain, SA have a reputation to REgain
Wales have a reputation to SUStain, Australia have a reputation to Lose.
Ireland have a reputation to Gain, NZ have one to Lose.

So with England/SA, the expectations are quite evenly matched. Reputations will be enhanced by perfromances from both sides. With Wales/Australia - well, really, it's a banana skin for Australia..., with quite a lot to lose. With Ireland/All Blacks; All Blacks gain little - Ireland gains quite a bit and loses little on the downside, except maybe a coach.

Scotland will surprise Australia but still lose. However they will make it a hard game and soften them sufficiently for Wales to beat them at the weekend in what will be Wales' only win.

The Boks defence will be way too good for England and restrict scoring to penalties so the games will be close but it will still be 3-0 to the home side.

Ireland will sustain a couple of key injuries in the first test and have a couple of cards in a bad tempered game. Strong possibility of uncontested scrums but only after a record number of penalty tries for the ABs. Ireland's only hope of coming close is a frozen pitch (for three weeks).

biltongbek wrote:What will the repercussion for the NH be if they don't come away with any wins?

They had a warm up game, although not with their first Xv's, but they are travelling to SA and OZ specifically with an opportunity to catch these two teams cold.

On the one hand you could argue a win will have more significance due to their poor away records and will give them an almighty boost in confidence.

A loss would just mean they still can't compete away from home and wouldn't damage their psyche that much.

Nobody (I think) would be shocked to the core if the NH teams were whitewashed - it would just confirm the state of World rugby.

England: 3-0 down to SA wouldn't be a surprise - but SL and his young tyros would be likely be put under enormous public and media scrutiny and a titanic reversal will be expected in the AIs. And if they fail then, there would be a man(men)-hunt.

Ireland: Will waft it off as a difficult tour, wait for the AI's v Argentina (who they probably will beat) and keep calm and carry on.

Scotland: If they get no results at all even against Samoa or Fiji (Scotland ranking 12, Fiji 16, Samoa 12) they could either go round sacking everyone in sight from Robinson and his coaching staff to Alex Samond and Gordon Brown. Or keep calm and carry on in the knowledge that they have five international class players at their disposal.

Wales: A 3-0 whitewash would be devastating for them and would take the shine off any post-GS pretentions. Probably to be dismissed by spinning the disappointments. A poor AIs would create more than a little opprobrium. Gatland and Edwards should go, why pick oversized backs?
But normal service will be resumed when the win the next 6Ns...




Anyone notice how these days nobody cares about the French. Only because they've achieved bugger-all over the past season?

SecretFly wrote:I'd say England have a reputation to Gain, SA have a reputation to REgain
Wales have a reputation to SUStain, Australia have a reputation to Lose.
Ireland have a reputation to Gain, NZ have one to Lose.

So with England/SA, the expectations are quite evenly matched. Reputations will be enhanced by perfromances from both sides. With Wales/Australia - well, really, it's a banana skin for Australia..., with quite a lot to lose. With Ireland/All Blacks; All Blacks gain little - Ireland gains quite a bit and loses little on the downside, except maybe a coach.

Hmm, I actually feel we might be the strongest SH team at the moment even though HM didn't pick the squad I wanted. He picked a Bulls team with a stormer here and a shark there, I thought he would pick a Stormers team with a bull here and a shark there.

But I still feel we have a reputation to lose if we lose to England. I think and most of us here think that we should easily beat the Roses. All the shows I watch also portrays that feeling and Naas said so (And he is always right, even though he used to play for the Bulls). So what if half our squad isn't available to us through injury - I actually think it is a blessing.

I am a little scared of the first test, but if you guys don't beat us there - which I still feel we should win - you are not going to beat us at all.

Sorry if this comes off as arrogant, but reading through the threads I feel the posters here have a false perception of where SA rugby is at the moment. And the Roses are playing in SA, if it was at Twickers it might have been a different story, but in SA I just can't see us losing.

Aus vs Wales looks to the be tightest of the series imo and Wales have to win the first test if they hope to win the series. However that first test is in Brisbane and a lot of teams dont win down in Brisbane.Hell Boks havent won there for years ,All blacks get dethroned there and super rugby teams do not find the going easy against the Reds at home. I dont think i'll be wrong in saying Brisbane is to Australia what Eden Park is to the All blacks and Ellis Park to the Boks. So if Wales can win here then they wil take the series but if they lose...

The Great Aukster wrote:
Ireland will sustain a couple of key injuries in the first test and have a couple of cards in a bad tempered game. Strong possibility of uncontested scrums but only after a record number of penalty tries for the ABs. Ireland's only hope of coming close is a frozen pitch (for three weeks).

... Thanks Aukster feeling a lot better about this series now!

Given Australia's injuries and schedule Wales should have a very strong chance of getting a win first up. Certainly the one youd thin k most likely to be wo by and NH team vs a sanzar.
England its really hard to say, they are further down their rebuilding road but the sides been hit by injuries already and they never beat SA these days.
Ireland its hard to see them getting a win.
Scotland should be competitive in all their games even if theres not much glory on offer

FerN wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'd say England have a reputation to Gain, SA have a reputation to REgain
Wales have a reputation to SUStain, Australia have a reputation to Lose.
Ireland have a reputation to Gain, NZ have one to Lose.

So with England/SA, the expectations are quite evenly matched. Reputations will be enhanced by perfromances from both sides. With Wales/Australia - well, really, it's a banana skin for Australia..., with quite a lot to lose. With Ireland/All Blacks; All Blacks gain little - Ireland gains quite a bit and loses little on the downside, except maybe a coach.

Hmm, I actually feel we might be the strongest SH team at the moment even though HM didn't pick the squad I wanted. He picked a Bulls team with a stormer here and a shark there, I thought he would pick a Stormers team with a bull here and a shark there.

But I still feel we have a reputation to lose if we lose to England. I think and most of us here think that we should easily beat the Roses. All the shows I watch also portrays that feeling and Naas said so (And he is always right, even though he used to play for the Bulls). So what if half our squad isn't available to us through injury - I actually think it is a blessing.

I am a little scared of the first test, but if you guys don't beat us there - which I still feel we should win - you are not going to beat us at all.

Sorry if this comes off as arrogant, but reading through the threads I feel the posters here have a false perception of where SA rugby is at the moment. And the Roses are playing in SA, if it was at Twickers it might have been a different story, but in SA I just can't see us losing.

Fern, if you think about it, Duane Vermeulen, Schalk Burger and Andries Bekker will all have been there was it not for injury.

So replace three players and add three stormers and all of a sudden the picture is more fair.

FerN wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I'd say England have a reputation to Gain, SA have a reputation to REgain

I am a little scared of the first test, but if you guys don't beat us there - which I still feel we should win - you are not going to beat us at all.

Sorry if this comes off as arrogant, but reading through the threads I feel the posters here have a false perception of where SA rugby is at the moment.

I'm afraid our guys (ie, My guys) drew the short straw and will be playing a good few thousand miles away from SA in a place where hobbitses roam free under the eye of Mordor.

As for the other point about being arrogant in thinking you're better than most people here seem to think. Well yes, you might argue that one but I assume people's opinions on ALL sides are based on last series of outings. I know, and I'd agree, that such a reflection can be an inaccurate method but it's the one most people succumb to nonetheless.

biltongbek wrote:

Fern, if you think about it, Duane Vermeulen, Schalk Burger and Andries Bekker will all have been there was it not for injury.

So replace three players and add three stormers and all of a sudden the picture is more fair.

I think the team is as it is because if you compare the Bulls team to the Stormers team, those that are left one to one there is really not much in it. So either way I feel that the team is strong enough.

@ SecretFly, luckily the last game next week would be a different one than the WC then

don't think that sa will win 3-0 or should i say, hope it won't happen.

Wales : 2 - 1 or 1 - 2

England : 0 - 3 or 1 - 2

Scotland could win all 3 or lose all 3 at the moment

Ireland : 0 - 3 - sorry, no chance.

I think anything less than a series win should be a disappointment for England or Wales. Forget what's gone in the past, both should be targeting wins this summer and if Northern Hemisphere rugby is ever going to progress we need to start getting results, not plucky losses.

Ireland have a much tougher task away in New Zealand. I'd love to see them do it, but I would be hugely surprised if they won.

Scotland are under some pressure for a result. Nobody expects Ireland to get a win so there is no real expectation, except from ultra-optimists like me, keeping the score down will be just about acceptable. England are always under the cosh from their media but a win would be a major achievement given where they are at the moment.

The real pressure is on Wales. They have what would generally be considered to be the lessor of the three SH teams. A series win would consolidate their upward momentum. One win and I'd say they would be happy enough, but a whitewash would mean losing 5 on the trot against OZ - not the form of worldbeaters.

Australia are 3N champions, have the S15 champions and have been building a very good young side. They are only weakened through injuries. With their strongest XV they could be considered the best of the SH sides. I certainly wouldn't say they are the worst of the 3.

No, we have been clearly the poorest of the three in the last 18 months.

My predictor:

Wales will winning two test match.

Ireland will winning one test match.

England will drawing one test match and losing the others.

Scotland not winning anything. (I'm sorry about it).

Yes some historical making there about Wales and Ireland! and is some bold predictor. But I work it out actually and I think is correct. I make my reputation by it too!

Ireland who finished 4th in the 6Ns to beat the All Blacks in New Zealand - a task which only the best SA, Australian and French teams have done.

When was the last time NZ lost at home? - A couple of years ago against France? - Aus haven't done it for ages and I don't think SA have since 08?

Ireland have very little hope im afraid, England and Wales have a chance.

And I cant see Scotland losing to Fiji and Samoa in Scotland.

W beat them in 08 and 09

biltongbek wrote:W beat them in 08 and 09

ah, 09 sorry.

I think France beat them in 2010.

Ireland have never beat NZ, even in Ireland - they won't in NZ.

The Wobblies have sent Quade back home so Barnes looks like the starter for Aus. They will never get a clearer shot at them than this (Although we said this of wales against the Boks in June 2010, Novemember 2011,) and they still fell short

wales606 wrote:Ireland who finished 4th in the 6Ns to beat the All Blacks in New Zealand - a task which only the best SA, Australian and French teams have done.

When was the last time NZ lost at home? - A couple of years ago against France? - Aus haven't done it for ages and I don't think SA have since 08?

Ireland have very little hope im afraid, England and Wales have a chance.

And I cant see Scotland losing to Fiji and Samoa in Scotland.

A bit is logic Wales606! Time will tell and we can discuss after in the brightness of true!

I understand the problems in the planning of these tours, but I don't see how they are massively different to the Autumn tests.