Springboks vs England, squad announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

I will update as more information is released.

Springbok team announced for the first test vs England.

15 Zane Kirchner, caps 14
14 JP Pietersen, caps 42
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), caps 72
12 Frans Steyn, caps 47
11 Bryan Habana, caps 74
10 Morné Steyn, caps 34
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15
8 Pierre Spies, caps 47
7 Willem Alberts, caps 9
6 Marcell Coetzee, caps 0
5 Juandré Kruger, caps 0
4 Eben Etzebeth, caps 0
3 Jannie du Plessis, caps 30
2 Bismarck du Plessis, caps 42
1 Beast Mtawarira, caps 32

Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss, caps 9
17 Coenie Oosthuizen, caps 0
18 Flip van der Merwe, caps 11
19 Keegan Daniel, caps 1
20 Ruan Pienaar, caps 51
21 Pat Lambie, caps 11
22 Wynand Olivier, caps 34

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

England Team:

15 Mike Brown, caps 3
14 Chris Ashton, caps 23
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, caps 10
12 Brad Barritt, caps 5
11 Ben Foden, caps 26
10 Owen Farrell, caps 5
9 Ben Youngs, caps 17
8 Ben Morgan, caps 5
7 Chris Robshaw (C), caps 6
6 Tom Johnson, 0 caps
5 Geoff Parling, 2 caps
4 Mouritz Botha, 6 caps
3 Dan Cole, 25 caps
2 Dylan Hartley, 34 caps
1 Joe Marler, 0 caps


Replacements:
16 Lee Mears, 38 caps
17 Paul Doran Jones, 3 caps
18 Tom Palmer, 37 caps
19 Phil Dowson, 5 caps
20 Lee Dickson, 0 caps
21 Toby Flood, 46 caps
22 Jonathan Joseph, 0 caps

[Morgannwg]

dont know why i continue feeding you

Whilst at Newport Gary Teichman and Percy Montgomery used to go and play squash after a rugby match, the rest of the team would be out in town drinking. SH produces stricter athletes, I thought they didn't drink very often. Certainly not during a test series (maybe afterwards).

I remember watching Invictus, Piennar (Damon) and the Boks are drinking cans in the changing room post England game. Damon throws the can at the wall in anger, couldn't tell what it was as it is unlike any can of beer or soda I have seen.

[Ozzy3213]

Oh I agree PSW, I'm not one who needs a try fest with the ball flung from pillar to post to enjoy a game.

This is likely to be a war of attrition, which if close towards the end will have me on the edge of my seat.

[Bullsbok]

dont know why i continue feeding you

Whilst at Newport Gary Teichman and Percy Montgomery used to go and play squash after a rugby match, the rest of the team would be out in town drinking. SH produces stricter athletes, I thought they didn't drink very often. Certainly not during a test series (maybe afterwards).

I remember watching Invictus, Piennar (Damon) and the Boks are drinking cans in the changing room post England game. Damon throws the can at the wall in anger, couldn't tell what it was as it is unlike any can of beer or soda I have seen.

Fair enough , my apologies

[Biltong]

Bismarck offered him a beer after the game and BOD refused? Fairplay I didn't think there was such a thing as a nice South African.

And you've known me for how long now?

[LondonTiger]

it was actually. And is there a better way than settling the issue once and for all over a beer not a series of interviews (Which once again entrenched my dislike of BoD )

Sometimes things happen in a match that are so far beyond acceptable that you would not want to be anywhere near the perpetrator(s).

Would anyone have expected the Tigers players to join calum Clark in a quick pint, or Ulster players join David Attoub.

Seems rather perverse to condone obvious thuggishness, yet denigrate a specific player due to a rumour about an un-named player.

[Morgannwg]

Haha, well actually Biltong that makes two Boers that I know to be nice guys! There is you and the one that lives locally!

[RubyGuby]

Botha and Barritt drinking beer in the Saffers changing room after an english defeat would make a great picture

[LondonTiger]

Bismarck offered him a beer after the game and BOD refused? Fairplay I didn't think there was such a thing as a nice South African.

And you've known me for how long now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU

This was from about 1985

[Biltong]

Haha, well actually Biltong that makes two Boers that I know to be nice guys! There is you and the one that lives locally!

Just checking

[Biltong]

Bismarck offered him a beer after the game and BOD refused? Fairplay I didn't think there was such a thing as a nice South African.

And you've known me for how long now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU

This was from about 1985

they should update that, it is outdated.

It should now be " never played without a south african"

[LondonTiger]

they should update that, it is outdated.

It should now be " never played without a south african

Fair point.

[Morgannwg]

Botha and Barritt drinking beer in the Saffers changing room after an english defeat would make a great picture

they should update that, it is outdated.

It should now be " never played without a south african"

What was that video all about anyway? It was made before I was born.

[Bullsbok]

Bismarck offered him a beer after the game and BOD refused? Fairplay I didn't think there was such a thing as a nice South African.

And you've known me for how long now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU

This was from about 1985

they should update that, it is outdated.

It should now be " never played without a south african"

[Biltong]

Bismarck offered him a beer after the game and BOD refused? Fairplay I didn't think there was such a thing as a nice South African.

And you've known me for how long now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeDk6ZeGNnU

This was from about 1985

they should update that, it is outdated.

It should now be " never played without a south african"

[LondonTiger]

What was that video all about anyway? It was made before I was born.

In London in the mid 80s the only South Africans you tended to meet were very loud Afrikaans who would tell all and sundry that non whites were a sub species and aprtheid was the work of god. If the govt only allow people like eugen Terreblanche to have a passports, perceptions will tend to be rather poor. Since then the outside perception of white south africans has been rather tempered.

[LondonTiger]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

[Biltong]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

Why not?

[Morgannwg]

Ah right, the whole anti-apartheid era. Never understood why they put such laws in place. I know South Africans are scared to talk about the current set-up now though for fear of persecution. Poor guys. The accents on the video are done pretty well on the video .

[LondonTiger]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

Why not?

cos now we love fat, hairy bikers.

[Biltong]

Ah right, the whole anti-apartheid era. Never understood why they put such laws in place. I know South Africans are scared to talk about the current set-up now though for fear of persecution. Poor guys. The accents on the video are done pretty well on the video .

Yeah, if the guy grew up in a gutter and were never properly educated.

It's like when Americans make a movie with a South African character in, they make us sound uneducated and stupid. Like we're eating peanut butter and trying to get it out of our teeth whilst speaking

[Biltong]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

Why not?

cos now we love fat, hairy bikers.

We're mostly buff, handsome bikers, kinda like the Gunston advertisement guy.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

Why not?

cos now we love fat, hairy bikers.

We're mostly buff, handsome bikers, kinda like the Gunston advertisement guy.

Indeed

Spoiler:

[Morgannwg]

That's not the guy who attacked a ref during a NZ/SA fixture is it? The official managed to escape unharmed because both back-rows dived on the guy!

[Biltong]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

Why not?

cos now we love fat, hairy bikers.

We're mostly buff, handsome bikers, kinda like the Gunston advertisement guy.

Indeed

Spoiler:

But he isn't a biker.

[Cymroglan]

Things must have gone bad there when they have to drag people into the stadium. They did not even get the right size shirt for him.

[Biltong]

Things must have gone bad there when they have to drag people into the stadium. They did not even get the right size shirt for him.

and they force you to wear a springbok jumper

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

That's not the guy who attacked a ref during a NZ/SA fixture is it? The official managed to escape unharmed because both back-rows dived on the guy!

That's the one. Except the ref (David McHugh) had already dislocated his shoulder by the time McCaw and Burger laid into the fan.

Ironically most kiwis reckoned McHugh made more 50:50 calls the 'Boks way than the ref who took over did. And the ABs won.

[Morgannwg]

So you can come and visit now biltong, we no longer hate you

Why not?

cos now we love fat, hairy bikers.

We're mostly buff, handsome bikers, kinda like the Gunston advertisement guy.

Indeed

Spoiler:

But he isn't a biker.

A lifetime of veggie carbs gets you a belly like that, (every Boer lives on a farm).

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Ah right, the whole anti-apartheid era. Never understood why they put such laws in place. I know South Africans are scared to talk about the current set-up now though for fear of persecution. Poor guys. The accents on the video are done pretty well on the video .

Yeah, if the guy grew up in a gutter and were never properly educated.

It's like when Americans make a movie with a South African character in, they make us sound uneducated and stupid. Like we're eating peanut butter and trying to get it out of our teeth whilst speaking

Right the British were far more balanced and realistic in their portrayal of 1970s South Africa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hsfYmpDQqA

[propdavid_london]

The bench looks somewhat improved from the 6N, but still has it's pitfalls. It's nice to see Joseph given a chance to cover wing and centre, and hopefully he'll come on to replace Tuilagi or Barritt at some point.

Joseph has the added ability to cover wing and centre. without compromising the game structure too much, you could pull Brown off - move Foden to 15 and Joseph to wing.

[ChequeredJersey]

Marler: The Boks will undoubtedly try the same tactics which neutralised Phil Vickery in the first Lions Test in '09. Hope he has been prepared for that. I would do the same

Hopefully the referee will be watching more closely than in that game and won't let the Beast deliberately drive straight up

[Biltong]

Marler: The Boks will undoubtedly try the same tactics which neutralised Phil Vickery in the first Lions Test in '09. Hope he has been prepared for that. I would do the same

Hopefully the referee will be watching more closely than in that game and won't let the Beast deliberately drive straight up

It's really more of a diagonally drive than up.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Hartley will popping the front row up too fast for him to get a proper drive on anyway

[ChequeredJersey]

And Marler will wheel the scrum too quickly too. The referee isn't going to know whom they should penalise first

[formerly known as Sam]

BB Marler has a similar crab like move which he utilises with Quins, if they don't go forward off the big hit generated by the front row they crab sideways or wheel in order to temper the opposition drive. England could have an issue with that as Cole is a couple of stone lighter than the normal big international tighthead at 18 stone (A Jones is over 20 stone) so he doesn't have the weight to anchor the scrum down should the opposition decide to wheel or crab. He does have the technique to buckle most looseheads should the referee clamp down on the funny stuff.

Marler and Hartley go in for the big impact hit though which should suit Cole better than his club mate Ayerza who likes to take the hit and then use his technique to crank up the pressure.

[Mad for Chelsea]

what time's the match?

[Effervescing Elephant]

16.00 BST. Going to be brilliant!

[Mad for Chelsea]

16.00 BST. Going to be brilliant!

thanks

I'll be able to watch it

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

16.00 BST. Going to be brilliant!

thanks

I'll be able to watch it

I have a dentist appointment at 17.30 BST, will miss the last 20 minutes walking to the surgery

[sensisball]

Funny how time diminishes people's recollections of a test match.
Vickery was indeed on the end of some illegal play by the beast in the first test. However after injuries and losing quite a lot of bulk he was well past his peak as a destructive tight head.

The one moment that summed up the Boks dominance was when Bismarck cuffed Vickery around the back of the neck causing him to flip vertically through 180 degrees and left him sitting on his arse!

Geech's selection of Vickery (ahead of Jones or Murray), Meers (ahead of Rees) and Win Jones (ahed of Hines or Shaw) significantly underpowered the front five. Instead of picking a team to target their potential scrum weakness he tried to pick a pack to outrun the Boks , a la 97. Except this time it didnt work.The Boks dominance in lineout and scrum gave the Lions nowhere to go, except backwards.

Brussow's try from the rolling maul was a humiltiating score to lose and fully displayed the strength of the Boks pack in this series.

Yes, Vickery restored some pride in the 3rd test but who cares? The series was lost and pride was the only thing left to fight for.

[ChequeredJersey]

Yeah but if Ugo could finish we still should have won despite Bok dominance. Let's not even go there with that tour, it is without a doubt the angriest and bitterest I have ever been after any sporting event not actually involving myself or a family member and I'm not sure I've let it go yet

[sensisball]

Sorry Jersy
Didnt mean to stir up bad memories. As a Scotland fan i am realy looking forward to the game tomorrow. I admit to thinking that Marler was pants but his progress in the scrum has been sensational this season.

JDP isnt a dominant tight head and his form has been variable at best for the Sharks this year. If Marler can get some change out of his scrummaging then England have a decent chance of edging this one. if the scrum is under pressure then i think the Boks have too much quality, in terms of kicking, for England.
All the best for tomorrow.

[Ozzy3213]

Looking at the siodes and how the teams might play, this one could well come down to the simple question of whether or not young Farrell can 'out-Morne', Morne!

[RubyGuby]

There will be diagonal kicks to the wingers to bypass the stodge in midfield - both teams b warned

[Biltong]

Looking at the siodes and how the teams might play, this one could well come down to the simple question of whether or not young Farrell can 'out-Morne', Morne!

Nah, I think it's gonna be about more than that mate.

[formerly known as Sam]

I have a nasty feeling it'll only be about more than that when Flood and Lambie take to the field to get things moving a bit. Perhaps both teams should be hoping for groin/thigh strains to their respective tens in the warm ups?

sensisball, Marler was pants before this season. He had a huge amount of potential but was only fullfilling a small part of it, his work with Rowntree has seen him leap forwards in terms of ability and really come of age. He played a lot of rugby last season and despite still being a magnet for yellow cards he showed a lot more maturity than in previous seasons, including holding his nerve in the final two games of the season for Quins.

[RubyGuby]

The Sprinkboks will look to drive over with their powerful backrow and forwards in the first 10 minutes, Houggard sniping behind. This will be a lot more than just the kicking. England need to hold their nerve in the first 20 or they will be in trouble - If they can do this and be within 7 at HT then they have a chance

[ChequeredJersey]

I'm not sold on it but if Foden at wing works alla Cory Jane or JOC (both different types of player) then we are in luck. Means we can custom pick our back 3 for situations and actually blood players at FB without having to risk dropping Foden and leaving ourselves exposed

[doctor_grey]

The Sprinkboks will look to drive over with their powerful backrow and forwards in the first 10 minutes, Houggard sniping behind. This will be a lot more than just the kicking. England need to hold their nerve in the first 20 or they will be in trouble - If they can do this and be within 7 at HT then they have a chance

Ruby, One thing I believe this England team can do is withstand a huge initial assualt. Against Wales in the Six Nations, they barely touched the ball in the fist 20 minutes. Wales were slamming them, but still they held firm.

I agree the Boks will go at them hard in the first 20 as well. But I think they have the bodies to hold tight. The questions surrounding this group is whether they have the attacking ability to respond.

[Duty281]

Just over 24 hours to go, can't wait!

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