Springboks vs England, squad announcements and matchday thread.

[Biltong]

First topic message reminder :

I will update as more information is released.

Springbok team announced for the first test vs England.

15 Zane Kirchner, caps 14
14 JP Pietersen, caps 42
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), caps 72
12 Frans Steyn, caps 47
11 Bryan Habana, caps 74
10 Morné Steyn, caps 34
9 Francois Hougaard, caps 15
8 Pierre Spies, caps 47
7 Willem Alberts, caps 9
6 Marcell Coetzee, caps 0
5 Juandré Kruger, caps 0
4 Eben Etzebeth, caps 0
3 Jannie du Plessis, caps 30
2 Bismarck du Plessis, caps 42
1 Beast Mtawarira, caps 32

Replacements:
16 Adriaan Strauss, caps 9
17 Coenie Oosthuizen, caps 0
18 Flip van der Merwe, caps 11
19 Keegan Daniel, caps 1
20 Ruan Pienaar, caps 51
21 Pat Lambie, caps 11
22 Wynand Olivier, caps 34

I am surprised and happy to see Eben etzebeth in the starting XV and Strauss on the bench, Meyer has gone for a 4-3 split on the bench which is interesting. The pack has 160 combined caps with 4 debutants, the back line has a combined cap of 302 caps.

I am actually rather impressed with Meyer's selections. The English may see this pack as vulnerable and inexperienced, but I think it is a rather exciting pack. full of mobility and physicality.

England Team:

15 Mike Brown, caps 3
14 Chris Ashton, caps 23
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, caps 10
12 Brad Barritt, caps 5
11 Ben Foden, caps 26
10 Owen Farrell, caps 5
9 Ben Youngs, caps 17
8 Ben Morgan, caps 5
7 Chris Robshaw (C), caps 6
6 Tom Johnson, 0 caps
5 Geoff Parling, 2 caps
4 Mouritz Botha, 6 caps
3 Dan Cole, 25 caps
2 Dylan Hartley, 34 caps
1 Joe Marler, 0 caps


Replacements:
16 Lee Mears, 38 caps
17 Paul Doran Jones, 3 caps
18 Tom Palmer, 37 caps
19 Phil Dowson, 5 caps
20 Lee Dickson, 0 caps
21 Toby Flood, 46 caps
22 Jonathan Joseph, 0 caps

[jamesandimac]

A lot of people are saying how much stronger the South Africans are going to get over the course of the series and that this is England's only chance of a test win. I'm not so sure, if anything I think England are going to get stronger as players get promoted into the test squad. Genuinely think Care and Haskell are going play themselves into contention for the 2nd test, we could even see the elevation of Gray to the bench. Got a feeling that the squad this week is going to be different from the one in the last test. Really would like to see Allen get game time ahead of JTH and hopefully he pushes Barritt for his shirt. Hopefully England can come away from the series having answered some questions about combinations, particularly the midfield and halfbacks. Still got the feeling that one question will remain unanswered and thats what is our most effective 2nd row partnership, because I'm not overly convinced that Botha, Palmer and Parling are strong enough in the tight for us to progress to world beating status and it could be the weak link in our pack.

[Biltong]

James the reason we believe we'll get stronger is due to more time together, you can expect us to be quite disjointed tomorrow

[ChequeredJersey]

So does that squad give a midweek squad like this?

15- Goode
14- Wade
13- JJ/Lowe
12- Allen/JTH
11- Monye
10- Hodgson
9- Care

1- Corbisiero (Mullan if not fit)
2- Grey
3- PDJ
4- Palmer
5- Robson
6- Haskell
7- Fearns
8- Waldrum

subs- Mullan, Youngs, Kitchener, Launchbury, Youngs, Flood, Foden

or something like that.

Looks strong too

[yappysnap]

launchberry is out injured I think.

Wish we had Slater of Garvey in as a bit of bulk in the engine room.

[Beaker]

launchberry is out injured I think.

Wish we had Slater of Garvey in as a bit of bulk in the engine room.

I'd have Attwood ahead of Slater though i've been impressed with Slater the few times i've seen him. I'm still scratching my head though as to why Lancaster thought they weren't worthy while Kitchener was (decent prospect though he may be).

[LondonTiger]

I'd have Attwood ahead of Slater though i've been impressed with Slater the few times i've seen him. I'm still scratching my head though as to why Lancaster thought they weren't worthy while Kitchener was (decent prospect though he may be).

Kitchener is a favourite of Lancaster's, having played for him in most of the Saxon's matches in 2011 despite normally being on the bench for Wuss in the Championship. Coaches tend to select those they are familiar with.

[emack2]

IF the JWC grounds are anything to go by tomorrow will be a mud bath,that makes it anybodies game.ALL the SH teams will grow stronger further into the series First up is the best chance to catch them cold.Hope The Vick Vapour Rubs working Biltong,judging by JWC results maybe surprises tomorrow too.

[LondonTiger]

IF the JWC grounds are anything to go by tomorrow will be a mud bath,that makes it anybodies game.ALL the SH teams will grow stronger further into the series First up is the best chance to catch them cold.Hope The Vick Vapour Rubs working Biltong,judging by JWC results maybe surprises tomorrow too.

Conditions in Cape Town were much better than those in Stellenbosch where Wales and England won.

Not sure what the weather has been like in Durban.

[Biltong]

Weather for tomorrow in Durban.

there are supposed to be some showers on friday night,

Saturday:
Sunny
windy in the morning, calm in the afternoon
temperature min 14 degrees, max 19 degrees

[doctor_grey]

OK, Everything up to now has been nothing but cheap foreplay.
Sometimes foreplay by oneself.
But now, its nut-cutting crunch time.

Stand and sing:
God Save our Gracious Queen
Long live our noble Queen
God Save the Queen

Send her VICTORIOUS
HAPPY and GLORIOUS
Long to Reign over us
God Save the Queen

Drink and sing along: Sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha8_Q6u0GV0
Get up and Sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-YMRbh0OqM
Do what inspires you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM02WcvlKn0

[Biltong]

Meh, for us its all about the people

Player 23

Elton and Jan

Player 23 full version

[Beaker]

Kitchener is a favourite of Lancaster's, having played for him in most of the Saxon's matches in 2011 despite normally being on the bench for Wuss in the Championship. Coaches tend to select those they are familiar with.

I know LT, and you can add the likes of Calum Clark to the list for the very same reason. I guess I want a bit more dispassion from the headcoach than going with what he knows when there are ***subjective opinion alert*** players currently playing better in the premiership. On the other hand, I equally have a problem if he selected the likes of Kitchener and Clark as he does believe that they are there on merit, as than I have to question his judgment. So far for me, his selection policy has been a bit of a curates egg although I know there's never going to be compete agreement.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to a good performance today. The pack really need to front up and i'll be especially interested in how Parling and Botha perform in that respect. If they seem underpowered, criticism surrounding his choice of 2nd row (in particular), will only get louder.

[DaveM]

What's wrong with taking Kitchener? He's developing nicely, and I think will eventually replace Parling in the England side. Also Clark was playing week-in, week-out for Saints, is young, was improving and until he disgraced himself looked a real contender for the England 7 shirt.

It will be interesting to see if the second row is 'underpowered' later. I doubt any of the matchday locks will feature in the next WC, but Rowntree likes athletic rather than lumpy locks.

[Zander]

Just a thought, what about Kitchener and Launchbury as the second row partnership for the next World Cup?

[jamesandimac]

Would like to see Lawes develop his lineplay, not just taking and stealing but running the show. Don't see him as an enforcer, but a very powerful athletic line out lock would be nice. This could then open the door for a powerful lock to anchor the scrum and provide a ballast in the loose. Who that is though is the important question.

[DaveM]

Just a thought, what about Kitchener and Launchbury as the second row partnership for the next World Cup?

I think that is a real possibility. I'd like to see Lawes given a go at 6 as well.

[faraway]

does anyone know where I can watch the match online?

[Duty281]

Under 3 hours now, Come on England! Still thinking that we will get a close victory and it'll be a great game I'm sure of that.

[Beaker]

What's wrong with taking Kitchener? He's developing nicely, and I think will eventually replace Parling in the England side. Also Clark was playing week-in, week-out for Saints, is young, was improving and until he disgraced himself looked a real contender for the England 7 shirt.

It will be interesting to see if the second row is 'underpowered' later. I doubt any of the matchday locks will feature in the next WC, but Rowntree likes athletic rather than lumpy locks.

I thought that Garvey and Attwood were playing better and they were playing regularly for their clubs.

Calum Clark was playing regularly, just not better then a number of other players. Furthermore and as importantly, he has a short fuse, as shown in under age and the AP.

I think that a combination of the athletic with the bigger more powerful lock works better.

[damngoodOvalball]

Has anyone got a link for a decent live feed for this game?

[Biltong]

PM Thomond, he had links this morning.

[damngoodOvalball]

Cheers biltong

[Morgannwg]

Good luck England. An English victory would turn my current frown, upside down! Do it for the empire.

[mystiroakey]

NH pride rests of Englands shoulders . We will not dissapoint

[Biltong]

Good luck England. An English victory would turn my current frown, upside down! Do it for the empire.

So, you're not going for the colony here?

[jamesandimac]

What's wrong with taking Kitchener? He's developing nicely, and I think will eventually replace Parling in the England side. Also Clark was playing week-in, week-out for Saints, is young, was improving and until he disgraced himself looked a real contender for the England 7 shirt.

It will be interesting to see if the second row is 'underpowered' later. I doubt any of the matchday locks will feature in the next WC, but Rowntree likes athletic rather than lumpy locks.

I thought that Garvey and Attwood were playing better and they were playing regularly for their clubs.

Calum Clark was playing regularly, just not better then a number of other players. Furthermore and as importantly, he has a short fuse, as shown in under age and the AP.

I think that a combination of the athletic with the bigger more powerful lock works better.

If you look back at the world cup winning sides of the professional era there is that combination in their second row. At the moment though there are only two locks who fit the bill for the powerhouse lock and are also regularly playing at AP level, Attwood and Garvey, and neither are in the squad. Hopefully this tour will identify that need and we can start integrating them in over the course of the next season.

You can't underestimate the impact that sort of lock can have on a game, and I've got a feeling we might just find out this afternoon.

[Zander]

Come on England! Even out the NH vs SH score a bit.

[doctor_grey]

Sir Biltongbek,
So now, here we are.
The Northern pretenders have made their play, but came up short.

It's now just you and yours against me and mine.
Could it really have been ought else?

Twenty paces and come out kicking for territory.
May the best man win.

Beat this..............
.........if you can.......
........................if you dare............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmtcf9sngVQ

[Beaker]

If you look back at the world cup winning sides of the professional era there is that combination in their second row. At the moment though there are only two locks who fit the bill for the powerhouse lock and are also regularly playing at AP level, Attwood and Garvey, and neither are in the squad. Hopefully this tour will identify that need and we can start integrating them in over the course of the next season.

You can't underestimate the impact that sort of lock can have on a game, and I've got a feeling we might just find out this afternoon.

That's how I see it but am desperately hoping that we're both wrong! Come on England!!!!

[yappysnap]

Forgot about Attwood, he had a really good season in a poor Bath side and on top of being a big brute i'm fairly sure he scored more tries then any other lock.

Hopefully he'll get a chance in the AI's...

[Biltong]

Sir Biltongbek,
So now, here we are.
The Northern pretenders have made their play, but came up short.

It's now just you and yours against me and mine.
Could it really have been ought else?

Twenty paces and come out kicking for territory.
May the best man win.

Beat this..............
.........if you can.......
........................if you dare............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmtcf9sngVQ

No anthems, just the reality of the game.

Life is like a box of chocolates

[doctor_grey]

You are E...V...I....L
OK, that was pretty funny. Especially Bakkies laughing.

Back at you, bro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bli0X2x3G88

[Biltong]

You are E...V...I....L
OK, that was pretty funny. Especially Bakkies laughing.

Back at you, bro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bli0X2x3G88

Pain and humiliation

[DaveM]

I thought that Garvey and Attwood were playing better and they were playing regularly for their clubs.

Calum Clark was playing regularly, just not better then a number of other players. Furthermore and as importantly, he has a short fuse, as shown in under age and the AP.

I think that a combination of the athletic with the bigger more powerful lock works better.

Well I think you can argue that that is what the Parling - Botha combination is. Botha is the enforcer for Borthwick at Sarries.

Now you, like many, are in the 'I want a lump' camp. I'm quite sympathetic, but the clear fact is Rowntree does not rate Garvey. I'd imagine he thinks it's more important to be mobile and hit rucks consistently for 80 minutes than it is to make two or three 10 metre carries. I think Rowntree knows what he is talking about, so even though I rate Garvey I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt at present.

Launchbury will eventually replace Botha, and Parling may well be replaced (James Craig is a wildcard possibility, or Kitchener). There's an interesting question as to what role Lawes plays, which is why I'd like him moved to 6 where he can focus on tackling and not feel too much pressure to carry. I think it unlikely we'll see Garvey, and I'm not fully convinced by Attwood - I don't think he's improved over the last couple of years.

I am genuinely interested in how the locks go today.

[doctor_grey]

Cripe, I remember that match. Worst I ever saw.
First time I ever heard of Gurthro.
Last time I ever wanted to see the half man - half monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYQKVOArWdU&feature=related

[doctor_grey]

...........Well I think you can argue that that is what the Parling - Botha combination is.

Dave, baby. How dare you try and be serious when we are trying to wind each other up?

C'mon mate. Find something good or evil to keep this going.

We already know that there will be blood on the tracks. That the front rows of both nations will end up about three inches shorter when the match is over, the second roes will walk like an old cowboy, the back rows will be bloody, Morne and Owen will have leg cramps from all the aimless/brainless kicking, the centres will be running straight at each other and the wings will still have gel in their hair. Mate, let's get some real blood curdling spirit up!

[Biltong]

...........Well I think you can argue that that is what the Parling - Botha combination is.

Dave, baby. How dare you try and be serious when we are trying to wind each other up?

C'mon mate. Find something good or evil to keep this going.

We already know that there will be blood on the tracks. That the front rows of both nations will end up about three inches shorter when the match is over, the second roes will walk like an old cowboy, the back rows will be bloody, Morne and Owen will have leg cramps from all the aimless/brainless kicking, the centres will be running straight at each other and the wings will still have gel in their hair. Mate, let's get some real blood curdling spirit up!

Doc, sadly they don't get it.

[doctor_grey]

Cripe, I remember that match. Worst I ever saw.
First time I ever heard of Gurthro.
Last time I ever wanted to see the half man - half monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYQKVOArWdU&feature=related

OOps, not sure how THAT got in there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFrtQuXxsKo

[Biltong]

What does one say

[ChequeredJersey]

Is there space for Lawes at 6 though, with Haskell, Robshaw, Croft, Johnson, Wood, Fearns and others all able to play there?

[Biltong]

Don't know about you guys, but I am getting a liittle nervous now.

[jamesandimac]

I'm affraid I don't agree with Lawes being a 6. Yes, modern players need to have an ability and skill set that can allow them to play in other positions, however you can't get away from the fact that to be successful at international you need players who are complete in their specific positions. Just look at the All Blacks in the world cup or South Africa in 2007, complete players in the back five of the pack but all traditional type players, big enforcer, agile jumper, bruising 6, grafting 7 and a proper 8.

Traditionally a 6 is a big powerful ball carrier and tackler, i.e. Collins, Kaino, Ferris, Dallaglio, Elsom, etc. Lawes can tackle don't get me wrong but is he a powerful go to man? Can we rate his playing style with these guys? Thats why I can't wait to see Haskell back in the mix next week because he is as close to a traditional 6 as we've got at the moment.

[doctor_grey]

We say, congratulations. That was earned, well and done.
(grumble, grumble, feckin' Cueto).

Now, let's bring it on.

Going for a quick run.
See you for kickoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtUH2YSFlVU

[Biltong]

Good luck Doc, see you on the flipside.

[Pal Joey]

Don't know about you guys, but I am getting a liittle nervous now.

Don't worry mate, she'll be fine... I was a little like that before the last match.

So the dog is safely outside?

[ChequeredJersey]

I disagree about the ABs and Boks back rows- I think we are overly pigeon-holing them. McCaw may have the workrate of a grafter but in the end he is Richie McCaw and he is unique. Schalk Burger, great as my distaste for him is, is a multitalented backrower who can fill in anywhere and is notable for his strength, tackling and grafting. Read is a multipositional player. Spies just isn't that great IMO. We need a balance in the back row but 2 allrounders and a specialist 8 or 3 allrounders is just as balanced as a unit of more "specialised" players, especially as many players don't fit any of the categories you have suggested but are unique. If you have a specialist tackler/carrier/"fetcher" and they are, as is inevitable in rugby, unable to make a carry/tackle/ruck due to factors outside their control, you have handicapped yourself. If all of your players are quite good at each role, even if better in certain areas, you may not have as flashy carries or obvious turnovers, but there will be fewer missed opportunities.

[alcoombe]

I'm not feeling too confident today. The sense that SA are going to come bursting out the box physically bullying us and that the team has 4 times as many caps has gotten to me.

[Biltong]

Don't know about you guys, but I am getting a liittle nervous now.

Don't worry mate, she'll be fine... I was a little like that before the last match.

So the dog is safely outside?

Dog was sent away when GG was still around, he reported me to rhe SPCA.

[maestegmafia]

Good luck fans...!

There has been a massive build up..! Sky sports are very very excited.

[Pal Joey]

That's right... I remember now. So it's just the bean bag now?
I have a feeling they'll come out firing and have a point to prove.

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