Danny Care

I just can not belive Danny Care is not in the squad. Over the last few months he has been the stand out number 9, as all could see in the prem final.

After his drunken incident, Stuart Lancaster obviously feels he doesn't warrant a place in the 22 until he has proven himself. He has been the best 9 in the Premiership but if he was straight into the team then what kind of message would that send to the other players about getting in trouble with the Police.

Lancaster is building a team - Care was a naughty boy and will be brought back in fairly soon I reckon - politics prevents him waltzing straight back in. 2nd test probably.

On form Care is the best scrum Half... He should have at least been on the bench.. Dickson is not international class...
If Lancaster still wants to punish him for getting into trouble he should have left him at Home..

pbuk0 wrote:On form Care is the best scrum Half... He should have at least been on the bench.. Dickson is not international class...
If Lancaster still wants to punish him for getting into trouble he should have left him at Home..

Spot on!

pbuk0 wrote:On form Care is the best scrum Half... He should have at least been on the bench.. Dickson is not international class...
If Lancaster still wants to punish him for getting into trouble he should have left him at Home..

Youngs and Dickson have more experience of this squad. Whilst it is a surprise that Care is not in the squad, without being privvy to the training sessions who is to say that these 2 are playing to the game plan better? Care is the form SH at the moment and there has to be a reason for his omission and SL doesn't strike me as the kind of person that would use up a tour spot for a player he wants to punish by not playing.

Youngs has been on fire too

I don't have a huge problem with Dickson, I think he is alright, but still behind Care & Youngs. In the AP Care looked the most on form recently and more importantly I feel would better suit pairing with Farrell (and his limitations). I think at present Care is the best at keeping the tempo up of driving on his forward pack and bringing the runners in around the fringe.

The pairing of Youngs & Flood is very understandable and I imagine we'd see them coming on together along with more accent on backline attack.

Youngs is back on form and Dickson was the starting scrum half from the 6 nations. If Care has a stormer mid week and Dickson isn't great then I'm sure he'll come in.

Oops, just realised I completely misunderstood the selection, thought Dickson was starting with Youngs on the bench.

As I said, Youngs is better than Dickson, but not so sure he goes as well with Farrell. I would have played Care if starting Farrell.

I hope the bench halfbacks aren't brought on together then, I think we need to see Flood play with Youngs. I've got a feeling Lancaster might leave Farrell on longer than Youngs though.

That's the thing that's bothering me. Use of the bench is likely to be important on Saturday.

I can see Youngs going well with Farrell, and very well with Flood (as long as the pack has at least parity). I can see Dickson working well with Farrell, but I don't think he's going to give Flood, especially a slightly rusty Flood, the service he needs.

And yet, Flood and Dickson will probably both come on and at about the same time.

I'd have expected Lancaster to look at the half-backs as a unit. Pair Flood and Youngs, either starting or on the bench, and then put Care with Farrell to present an attacking threat and fix the Bok defence. I'm not sure what the plan is now...

Care still needs to prove himself to Lancaster and ENG that he can stay out of trouble... not getting banned/arrested for the last 3 months is not an achievement.

Going on tour, being the bag man, getting to training early and leaving after everyone else.... and still keeping his head up.

Thats what Care has to do in this series. He will get a test spot in this series if he does the above in the 2nd & 3rd matches.

Lancaster will be presiding over far bigger tests in the future than this series... he has to know he can trust Care.

Most coaches would have cut him off completely... he's lucky Lancaster is a good and understanding guy.

george doors wrote:I just can not belive Danny Care is not in the squad. Over the last few months he has been the stand out number 9, as all could see in the prem final.

I rest my case, lets hope Stuart L comes to his senses and picks DC to start the game, I am afraid BY is just not up to it.

fa0019 wrote:Care still needs to prove himself to Lancaster and ENG that he can stay out of trouble... not getting banned/arrested for the last 3 months is not an achievement.

Going on tour, being the bag man, getting to training early and leaving after everyone else.... and still keeping his head up.

Thats what Care has to do in this series. He will get a test spot in this series if he does the above in the 2nd & 3rd matches.

Lancaster will be presiding over far bigger tests in the future than this series... he has to know he can trust Care.

Most coaches would have cut him off completely... he's lucky Lancaster is a good and understanding guy.

What a load of rubbish.

How about Quade Coopers antics? Or Zac Guildford? Or the mental Australian/Italian fly half. Loads of players have done worse then Care and in my opinion missing the 6N's was punishment enough. Him not making the 22 for Sat was just idiotic from SL, and the moment Dickson came on with 6 minutes to go and spent the next minute flapping at the back of a ruck proved that Care should have been there all along.

yappysnap wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Care still needs to prove himself to Lancaster and ENG that he can stay out of trouble... not getting banned/arrested for the last 3 months is not an achievement.

Going on tour, being the bag man, getting to training early and leaving after everyone else.... and still keeping his head up.

Thats what Care has to do in this series. He will get a test spot in this series if he does the above in the 2nd & 3rd matches.

Lancaster will be presiding over far bigger tests in the future than this series... he has to know he can trust Care.

Most coaches would have cut him off completely... he's lucky Lancaster is a good and understanding guy.

What a load of rubbish.

How about Quade Coopers antics? Or Zac Guildford? Or the mental Australian/Italian fly half. Loads of players have done worse then Care and in my opinion missing the 6N's was punishment enough. Him not making the 22 for Sat was just idiotic from SL, and the moment Dickson came on with 6 minutes to go and spent the next minute flapping at the back of a ruck proved that Care should have been there all along.

Agreed - you punish an individual by not taking him on tour at all.
Once on tour it should just be a judgement on form and combinations. Most people would say he is number one on form.

Lancaster has a policy of making everyone earn their shirt back regardless of how they lost it..injury, suspension, being rubbish whatever. Care is being treated no differently to Youngs or Flood were/are.

Yes but I didn't think the way he handled it then was right either.

Stubbornly sticking with his favourites isn't always the right way to go and if you keep over looking the form players then you'll be sorry in the long run.

Care lost his spot in the team during the 6ns when Youngs and Dickson came in. Lancaster wants to continue with the 6ns team as much as possible. I do believe that care will be playing on the team on Wedsnday against the SA baa baas.

I dont think that Lancaster is the type of man to hold a grugde against any one. If you are in the squad then at some time you will get game time.

But if Care wants to get back into the Test starting XV, then he will have to earn his place.

yappysnap wrote:Yes but I didn't think the way he handled it then was right either.

Stubbornly sticking with his favourites isn't always the right way to go and if you keep over looking the form players then you'll be sorry in the long run.

Ps Similar to Kitchener & Clark, Care is a Lancaster favourite. Lancaster oversaw Care's early development at Leeds and then in the Saxons and has several times spoken about his almost parental feelings towards the younger man.

majesticimperialman wrote:Care lost his spot in the team during the 6ns when Youngs and Dickson came in. Lancaster wants to continue with the 6ns team as much as possible. I do believe that care will be playing on the team on Wedsnday against the SA baa baas.

I dont think that Lancaster is the type of man to hold a grugde against any one. If you are in the squad then at some time you will get game time.

But if Care wants to get back into the Test starting XV, then he will have to earn his place.

What a load of tosh, Care is the inform best number 9 in the Eng at the moment, his form for Quins has been outstanding. He has earned his place.

LondonTiger wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Yes but I didn't think the way he handled it then was right either.

Stubbornly sticking with his favourites isn't always the right way to go and if you keep over looking the form players then you'll be sorry in the long run.

Ps Similar to Kitchener & Clark, Care is a Lancaster favourite. Lancaster oversaw Care's early development at Leeds and then in the Saxons and has several times spoken about his almost parental feelings towards the younger man.

Ah so that's why Kitchener is in there.

I didn't realise his feelings for Care, to be honest he sounds more and more like a nut job.

Nah, not a nut job, just someone who cares. Danny Care has been in a very dark place in the last 12 months and not clear yet till various legal proceedings culminate. This affected his form with many Quins fans demanding he be dropped.

Perhaps Care shoul dhave been starting and Youngs consigned to the midweek team, but I very much doubt anything woul dhave been different and then Lancaster would be getting flak for something else.

Lancaster took over the Saxons in Summer 2008, same time as when Care joined EPS. He was in charge of the Leeds academy while Care developed but Care left when he became head coach (or just before)

Care should defo start the next game. His pace and sniping would be very useful agains the Boks.

Youngs just isn't playing well for England at the moment and Dickson is average ,and nothing more than a stop gap.