The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Jedburgh

First topic message reminder :

Sláinte and welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The Pub has made it's way to Jedburgh, home of Greig Laidlaw who kicked the winning points for Scotland on Tuesday night.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no tampering with the pictures of all of the June Internationals debutants hanging over the bar.

Old pub: https://www.606v2.com/t30214p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub-sixmilebridge#1286837

Yep pretty, much. They could have targetted Zebo a bit more who is still a bit suspect positionally, but they didn't. Trimble would have made some bit of a defence there, he wouldn't have been caught out.

Thomond wrote:That's McFadden in defence pretty much all the time. He has pretty poor positioning and is not a great tackler.

Unfortunately I've no option but to agree....I wouldn't say he's scared in anyway, its just his decision making in defence is poor and his tackling technique isn't great.....good footballer but that's too many defensive lapses now from him in an Ireland jersey...he doesn't seem to learn from them.

Is it not perhaps a trust issue?

Earls went in for one tackle that McFadden should have taken, and by doing that he took himself and McFadden out when the ball was passed inside for a clear run.

If Earls trusted McFadden that wouldn't have happened.

The same thing happened ;ater on when McFadden came inside and left a huge gap on the outside whilst there were enough defenders inside him to take care of the runners there.

Yes Biltong thats true but McFadden in particular has been caught out quite a few times now...twice at outside centre (Scotland and USA last season) he's shot out of the line and missed the tackle and its led directly to tries. He missed the tackle on North against Wales which let to Davies try in the 6N. Shane Williams scored 2 past him in the Rabo final.

As a unit the back 3 didn't defend well but I've seen enough of McFadden now to say that he is a poor defender when he plays in the wide channels (13 and wing).

The fact that 3 tries were scored down his wing really doesn't surprise me at all.

I hate to say I told you so but I did suggest we'd miss Trimble's defense.

Anyone see the boxing last night? More controversy from those bloody yanks.

Ah Willy that one was obvious before the game... I just hoped we wouldn't give the ABs so much ball to run at us....

Good night?

Nah I'm done with boxing...the whole thing is corrupt from top to bottom.... surprise surprise Pacquio loses whilst Mayweather is in the slammer...gives just enough time for a rematch before Maywhether gets himself together....

Was THIS the highlight for Ireland from yesterdays game ? Well it made me

Morning all. Survived the dentist yesterday, just need to go back and get a permanent filling in place of the temporary one.

Rava, you're right, I had in my head that it was the Carter break down that side just before the game finished. Portnoy was muttering about BOD knocking the ball out rather than the holding back though.

Around 4.30 this morning my flatmate clattered in the door with half a dozen friends in tow. In the space of 15 minutes I had 3 Irish lasses barge into my room.The door to the bathroom is next to my bedroom door . And I had a headache

Kiwireddevil wrote: In the space of 15 minutes I had 3 Irish lasses barge into my room.(

I believe this is known as a "result"

PenfroPete wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote: In the space of 15 minutes I had 3 Irish lasses barge into my room.(

I believe this is known as a "result"

Sadly Penfro none of the three are interested in men

Did you watch ?

Morning...picked the wrong time to come in I think! I'll just grab a quick Last day of freedom then back to work tomorrow.

More bad news for Ireland; Keith Earls is out of the second test. Cian Healy and Declan Fitzpatrick are doubtful, as is Mike Ross.

It's going to get a lot uglier for us next weekend than this weekend I think.

Hi all. One positive from yesterday - I dont think there was even 1 reset scrum in NZ v Ireland.

red_stag wrote:Hi all. One positive from yesterday - I dont think there was even 1 reset scrum in NZ v Ireland.

You may be right. Though possibly the 1st two scrum free kicks should have been reset

Glas a du wrote:Wales team for ACT Brumbies

WALES: Liam Williams; Harry Robinson, Andrew Bishop, Ashley Beck, Aled Brew; James Hook, Rhys Webb; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Rhodri Jones, Alun Wyn Jones (Captain), Luke Charteris, Josh Turnbull, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Shingler
REPLACEMENTS: Ken Owens, Rhys Gill, Ian Evans, Gareth Delve, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Alex Cuthbert

Bore da.

Delve! Where the ffyc did he come from? Why is AWJ not being wrapped in cotton wool? Why are Paul James and Hibbard not starting the second test?

Howley you...

Hook at 10

That Delve inclusions come right out of nowhere! He's not been with the squad for well over a year, unless there's been some sneaky training sessions he's gone to that we haven't heard of??

AWJ will play the first half, Ianto the 2nd, about right really. If Hibbs plays well he'll be pushing for the bench spot in the 2nd test.

Nowthappy with either Brew or Hook playing, but would rather them play in this game then the 2nd test.

Beck needs to up his defence massively, guess tis good they've paired him with Bishop as at least for the O's he'll know how to cope with Beck's defensive frailties.

You know what actually, I quite like that side, although, is Shings at 8 again?? v strange that. Hope he has a stormer anyways, and that Sanjay plays better then he did against the BaaBaa's.

And afternoon all. I've just had to rescue a mouse from my cat. My cat now hates me.

On the Fergus McFadden thing I have never rated him. I remember getting a hounding from Mick over this who pointed out his performance in the Micky Mouse league.

He is nobody to get excited about. I really like Declan Fitzpatrick as a player. The IRFU should be giving him all the resources and support to shed weight and improve his conditioning.

Just realised why Delve has been called into the squad.

Toby is out for the series I think with a broken bone in his hand

red_stag wrote:On the Fergus McFadden thing I have never rated him. I remember getting a hounding from Mick over this who pointed out his performance in the Micky Mouse league.

He is nobody to get excited about. I really like Declan Fitzpatrick as a player. The IRFU should be giving him all the resources and support to shed weight and improve his conditioning.

I liked him as a 12. He's gotten no gametime there really. It's a waste.

Not shed, convert. He's a prop, remember.

West Indies putting on some terrific entertainment in the cricket.

They need 24 runs to get the highest ever final wicket stand in test cricket. Hopefully they'll get them when I'm in the shower.

The thing is, it's not like the conditioning coaches at Ulster have been saying "Ach, sure, don't worry about it. Big is beautiful" to Declan Fitzpatrick for the last number of years. One thing Ulster do have is very sadistic, demanding fitness coaches. But they haven't really managed to get Deccie into top shape. It's not as simple as giving him resources and support, which of course he already has. If you're spending more time injured than playing it's not going to be easy.

Remember when I was talking about the Ulster tighthead position earlier this year I didn't mention Deccie because I thought with all the injuries he had he might be done in the game- his contract was coming up for renewal and he was out with a chronic neck condition with no fixed return date. Wonderfully, he did go on to make a full recovery and then put in a great performance in the Heineken Cup semi-final.

I like Fitzpatrick and I was delighted to see him come in and do very well. But next season I want to see the promising Adam Macklin get more gametime behind Afoa and I'm worried now that this new flavour of the month might hurt the odds of him nailing down second choice tighthead spot at Ulster.

At least we won't have to take gametime away from Fitzpatrick and Macklin by giving Tom Court the occasional run at tighthead now

Why is deccie a doubt for next week what happened?

Aww, Tino Best out for 95. Highest ever score by a #11 though, and he did "Mind the windows"

Muscle strain, it's why he came off and didn;t return when Healy came off.

This French open final is going to be epic I think......

If Fitz and/or Ross and Healy don't make next week we are fooked...its a sad state of affairs but you have to blame the provinces as much as the IRFU and kidders for the prop situation..... mind you the descisions to keep the bull going so long and to develop Buckley and Court as THs are coming back to bite us......

It's a grassroots problem as well. The IRFU and the provinces haven't helped but the roots of the problem are really quite deep. Not enough emphasis on scrummaging technique from the very beginning and too much emphasis placed on work around the field in lieu of it. Example; The fact that Adam Macklin, one of our most promisng young props, played 8 coming through for his school gives him a good bit of catching up to do with his peers from other rugby nations who identify front row talent earlier and encourage them to specialise earlier.

It's going to get better, but it's rough right now.

Provinces are massively to blame:

1 - Munster basically relied too long upon Horan and Hayes. The likes of Tim Ryan and even Tony Buckley were never properly developed.

2 - Ulster had BJ Botha for three years and replaced him with John Afoa. Unforgiveable that his was allowed.

3 - From 2006-2011 I genuinely think that Cian Healy was the only Irish prop of note at Leinster. The rest were all foreign blokes.

Now its upto the IRFU to monitor this but even still.

I think that instead of this dopey project player system to find props (Ah You, Borlase, White) they should be looking at:

- Giving extra assistance to guys like Declan Fitzpatrick in his fitness or Darragh Hurley in his injury rehabilitation.

- Getting young props abroad for a few years where they will get regular gametime.

- Making sure they monitor these guys they send abroad and ensuring they are well supported.

For example a guy like Tim Ryan has been playing in France, Italy, Wales, England and Ireland and has played the All Blacks and was playing in the Amlin Final less than two years ago.

We should be getting him back to one of the provinces in the next year and using the experience he has gained abroad.

Thats a hell of a lot better of a project.

Well at least you can't blame Connacht for anything Staggy!

Its hard to be blamed when your on the bottom of the pile Cari!

I think we just need to get our props used to the idea that they are there to prop up a scrum. Anything else is a bonus.

Rugby is very much a specialist game.

Aw leave 'em alone! Sounds like a good place to be at the mo!

I assume with Delve coming in, there was some barrel scraping going on in the Welsh camp? I don't mean that in a nasty towards him, but he's not really got much of a look in before.

Do you think BJ and Afoa have had any hand in bringing our Props on at all?

Why was it unforgivable to have BJ at Ulster but okay to allow him to go to Munster? Surely he is standing in the way of Irish TH's in both cases?

The situation has reached disaster levels.... when our first choice players are out we can barely win our own scrums...

The IRFU put too much faith in the bull, who was very rarely injured and had Buckley twigged as his successor. The problems have been building for a decade and we've now hit the worst case scenario.

Wow what forehand by Nadal

MrsP wrote:Do you think BJ and Afoa have had any hand in bringing our Props on at all?

Why was it unforgivable to have BJ at Ulster but okay to allow him to go to Munster? Surely he is standing in the way of Irish TH's in both cases?

Neither should have been allowed Mrs P. The IRFU should have said years ago that no more NIQ props were allowed after BJs contract expired..... in fact they should probably have identified the problem before BJ was signed.

Are you serious MrsP.

Sorry if I sound condescending here but you are SERIOUSLY telling me its ok for Ulster to have a 1st choice foreign tighthead for SIX years. At the same time that Irish propping is at its lowest ebb. Really??

Munster have supplied John Hayes and Tony Buckley to the national team with 130 caps to the national team between them. We lost both of them at the same time and bought a tighthead to replace them. I would be just as annoyed at Munster if we haven;t developed anyone by the time Botha leaves. Ulster bought a tight head in 2008 and bought another one in 2011 thats the big issue.

I am baffled by your response MrsP.

It's unfortunate the situation at Ulster- wait, no, I'm not going to lie. It's great we've had two top class tightheads, I'm loving it, I'm loving the fact it makes us able to compete at a level I've always dreamed of getting back to and I say that as a person who always prefers to see homegrown talent encouraged.

But it's also very understandable- Simon Best retired, complete curveball and Ulster had nobody to fill the gap. BJ Botha was brought in. Don't think anyone could have a problem with that- he added so much in coaching young props who simply didn't have any kind of front row mentor (coach or player) whatsoever before hand.

The more controversial signing is John Afoa, but given our options it makes a lot of sense. You had Adam Macklin and Declan Fitzpatrick there. Obviously Macklin has no experience- he's developing nicely and it's my great hope he'll definitively overtake Deccie next season. Fitzpatrick is not a guy I would be comfortable relying on as first choice for any province. He misses so much time through injury he can't be first choice and he has always struggled with his fitness. He missed five months last year right in the middle of the season and struggled with his all-round fitness either side of that.

I just don't know how additional IRFU support will help that. He already has a number of conditioning coaches with Ulster trying to get him up to the required standard of fitness and it hasn't happened yet. I'd be wary one more IRFU coach is just going to get in the way of them doing their jobs, that they'll step on each others toes. But his scrummaging has come on amazingly quickly in a VERY short space of time. At the start of the season he was getting dominated by other props in the Pro12. He was destroyed in the scrums in Welford Road. He always had the potential to be as good as he has been against Edinburgh and New Zealand but there was very little sign of it until a few months ago. I've got to confess I would have had him in the same bracket as the likes of Tim Barker and Willie Faloon at Ulster. Fine journeymen for the Pro12 but likely to be badly exposed at HC level. And I'm sure thats the way he would have been viewed by the Ulster management too.

For him to scrum like he did for 55 minutes against Woodcock has astounded me, more than anything else I've seen in rugby this year. He may now go on to reach that standard consistently. But equally would not be surprised if he never did again.

In fairness stag we did have Simon Best, Brian Young and brought in Court.

Its the IRFU who are to blame for letting the provinces sign the players.

rodders wrote:In fairness stag we did have Simon Best, Brian Young and brought in Court.

Its the IRFU who are to blame for letting the provinces sign the players.

I agree that its the IRFUs fault for not managing the situation. Im not blaming Ulster for the whole situation by any means we all had a part to play. I have said on other threads the province I blame most is Leinster. By a LONG LONG LONG way.

Just I think its an absolute nonsense to just keep replacing foreign tighthead with foreign tighthead and an unforgiveable move by the IRFU to sanction it. What if Macklin hasn't developed by 2014? Will Ulster be rushing up to sign another foreign tighthead. I bloody hope not and I hope Munster wont either.

Notch wrote:
For him to scrum like he did for 55 minutes against Woodcock has astounded me, more than anything else I've seen in rugby this year. He may now go on to reach that standard consistently. But equally would not be surprised if he never did again.

Me too Notch...I thought he'd get mangled, I really did.

If Fitzpatrick can perform like that against the ABs then big questions need to be asked about the judgement of Ulsters coaches and management team.

Well, it's our job to make sure he develops.

We were all set to not have Afoa you know. We were all set to sign Cory Jane and John Andress but both deals fell through. We needed a tighthead and we needed a back three player. We had two Irish tightheads, but neither of them was good enough at the time to be our first choice, no-one else on the market at all- who else were we going to sign?

There's a harsh truth here; if Ulster didn't manage to get Afoa at the last minute, we probably would have signed an NIQ loosehead and moved Court across to tighthead full time. I doubt the outcome would have been good for anyone.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
For him to scrum like he did for 55 minutes against Woodcock has astounded me, more than anything else I've seen in rugby this year. He may now go on to reach that standard consistently. But equally would not be surprised if he never did again.

Me too Notch...I thought he'd get mangled, I really did.

If Fitzpatrick can perform like that against the ABs then big questions need to be asked about the judgement of Ulsters coaches and management team.

No, just... no.

If Fitzpatrick can perform like that across the course of between 6-10 internationals then questions need to be asked. No matter how awful or brilliant someone is in one game it's too small a sample size to draw meaningful conclusions from. Especially in the scrum, which is a very different challenge in each match depending on who your opponent is and technique means more than reputation.

Clearly the talent was there, and I've no doubt thats been recognised all along, but the talent is not always brought to bear. That is one amongst the other very good reasons why he hasn't managed to nail down a starting shirt. The fact that a player has brilliant one-off games in the big matches when the adrenaline is flowing (he's had two for Ulster, versus Stade when Botha was injured a few years ago and versus Edinburgh this year) does not mean he can do that over the course of a whole season of Pro12 and Heineken Cup. The brilliant one-off game he produced in Bothas second year here didn't push him up the pecking order because he never backed it up. We can start talking once this is backed up.

Stag to be honest I'm growing disillusioned with the whole set up in Irish rugby at the minute.

The IRFU couldn't organise a urine up in a brewery.

I have growing doubts about Ulsters management, especially David Humphreys. I'll be slated for that but feic it.

The only people involved in Irish rugby coaching and management that I rate right now are Joe Schmidt, Conor O'Shea, Eric Elwood, Greg Feek, Johann Muller, Mark McCall, Les Kiss, Mike Forshaw and perhaps even Brian McLaughlin .

The rest are a shower of wasters .

So if I understand this Stag, you are saying Ulster have exported a...













...CRISIS

Stag,

Who do you think will be the THs for Ireland for the next few years?

Laters.... .....

MrsP wrote:Stag,

Who do you think will be the THs for Ireland for the next few years?

Fitzpatrick or Macklin...Ross will be well shot by 2015.......

I would have said Ross, Andress and Fitzpatrick followed by Hagan.

Notch I dont know why you are so negative in your assesent of Fitzpatrick. To me he could always scrum but was.a.bit usless elsewhere. Rodders you dont rate Foley?