The Leinster back row.

So, after watching the JWC again today, there are a few standout guys for Ireland who look like they have potential. Particularly in the back row, which is made up entirely of Leinster players:

6) Coughlan
7) Gilsenan
8) Conan

Conan and Gilsenan in particular have been very good, and Coughlan also looks very powerful. They all show potential, but then you just look at the competition ahead of them for Leinster, never mind looking at international prospects for the future. Leinster have the following guys in their back row, who have all started for Leinster this season at some point:

O'Brien
Heaslip
McLaughlin
Jennings
Ryan
Ruddock
Auva'a
Murphy

That is a crazy amount of depth and talent there. As Stand and a few other guys have pointed out in the game thread, Ulster/Munster are starting to look bare in those areas, so it would be wise for the IRFU to start sending these guys elsewhere for more game time. As an Ulster/Munster/Connacht fan, who would you most like to see sign for your province? Realistically. And for the Leinster fans (or anyone else) who are you most excited about? Who would you not mind leaving for another province? Who would you like to hold onto?

To me, looking at that group of highly talented players, the likes of Ruddock, Auva'a, McLaughlin, Jennings and Murphy will never see past provincial honours. I am personally most excited about Ryan out of that group, and hope he gets game time this year.

Also I would be interested in hearing who you think will be the starting back row for your province. Both in the HC and the Pro 12.

For Ulster in the HC:
6) Ferris
7) Botes/Henry
8) Wilson

20) Henry/Botes

And in the Pro 12:
6) Henry
7) Botes
8) Wilson

20) Diack

As well as those two teams, we have the likes of Birch to develop in the background.

Is Botes a done deal? A quick glance at the Ulster thread madness is less than conclusive.

Either way i think Gilsenan looks as close to a good groundhog as Ireland have seen since Pollock. Leinster will keep him i think.

Coghlan looks a really well balanced athelete. Tall enough to be a good lineout option and Conan looks like he has massive physicality. I would take any of them at Ulster, particularly with Anscombe being (alledgedly) a breakdown specialist

I don't know, I assumed he was. Well, if Botes isn't a done deal, then I would put Birch as a starter in my Pro 12 team! Gilsenan does look good, but he strikes me as more of a complete 7 in the mould of Wallace than a groundhog. He has done well at the breakdown so far, but he looked like he was everywhere against SA. I am excited to see how he does. Also for Ryan as I said.

Of all those guys I think Ulster would benefit most from signing a 6. Considering the fact that Ruddock and McLaughlin (I think) have already turned down Ulster, I guess Coughlan would be a good option as a powerful runner. Conan would be good but he looks like a specialist 8.

As a leinster fan the players i would least like leaving are Ruddock, Murphy and maybe Coghlan.

Gilsenan offers something different to the rest apart form Jennings. Conan is the one ive most been impressed with at the JWC but Ruddock tore it up that stage as well. When the others catch up with his physicality he may be found out but he deserves the chance to prove himself.

Do you mean the players you would least mind leaving? I don't think any of those guys would be a loss to you at all. Ruddock in particular, has been a massive disappointment this season. He looked very dynamic last season, but it seems to have just gone.

What do you think the Leinster back row will be for the HC and Pro 12?

I wouldnt mind losing Ruddock. I dont think he's going to get the game time he needs. We need to keep 6. Jenno, Mcloughlin, Dom Ryan, Auuv'a, SOB and Heaslip. That covers the PRO12, HC and injuries.

Want to keep Gilensan (real groundhog at last. An Irish rarity.) & Murphy at the Academy for a bit and see how they progress. They may not make it. If they do, they will push Jennings and Auuv'a - who may then be avaliable. Be great players for any of the provinces. If they (Gilsenan & Murphy) dont - they become available to the provinces or to England/Wales/Scotland. I think Conan may be offered an Academy spot soon. He looks like a beast and was the best player on the park today imo.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Do you mean the players you would least mind leaving? I don't think any of those guys would be a loss to you at all. Ruddock in particular, has been a massive disappointment this season. He looked very dynamic last season, but it seems to have just gone.

What do you think the Leinster back row will be for the HC and Pro 12?

haha least mind leaving yeah, bit slow tonight

Gibson, I was hoping you would pop in here.

The player who you always seem excited about most was Dominic Ryan, and you saw him as the heir to the 7 shirt for Leinster. Are you still as excited about him as a player? He hasn't had much of a chance this season to be fair, due to injury. However, he looked promising in the last game he played. I think Leinster may look at having this back row in the future, when Jennings is gone.

6) McLaughlin
7) Ryan
8) O'Brien

I think McLaughlin deserves to start more than Heaslip, I really do.

I rate Cathal O'Flaherty in Munster highly. 6'6" fast and has good hands. Missed out on the Ireland U20s last season for some reason (maybe workrate??) but the talent is there.

I would like conan and gilsenan to stay at leinster and see ruddock and coghlan get experience in another irish province

Rory,
McLaughlin has been on fire. I agree. It may be the way to wake Heaslip up. He has not being pushed for province OR country, for 3 years now. Its not healthy. So yes. Auuv'a has been a revelation for us also. He always impresses. Very consistent and always involved. Powerful ball-carrier. Deserves all the game time he gets.

Deccie has McLaughlin on the bench tomorrow on pure merit alone. He was once way ahead of SOB until he got injured. He is on his way back.

I prefer the natural order of things. I.E Ryan to replace Jenno - he leaves. Gilsenan moves on up. And so on.

Thing is, Jenno signed for 3 years last year. I know he'd fight like mad for his place, but Father Time and the progression of Ryan(he's got the Right Stuff), may hasten this process. I hope it does.

profitius wrote:I rate Cathal O'Flaherty in Munster highly. 6'6" fast and has good hands. Missed out on the Ireland U20s last season for some reason (maybe workrate??) but the talent is there.

At 6 foot 6 should be not look at playing in the second row? Not a huge amount of depth there.

Gibson wrote:Rory,
McLaughlin has been on fire. I agree. It may be the way to wake Heaslip up. He has not being pushed for province OR country, for 3 years now. Its not healthy. So yes. Auuv'a has been a revelation for us also. He always impresses. Very consistent and always involved. Powerful ball-carrier. Deserves all the game time he gets.

Deccie has McLaughlin on the bench tomorrow on pure merit alone. He was once way ahead of SOB until he got injured. He is on his way back.

I prefer the natural order of things. I.E Ryan to replace Jenno - he leaves. Gilsenan moves on up. And so on.

Thing is, Jenno signed for 3 years last year. I know he'd fight like mad for his place, but Father Time and the progression of Ryan, may hasten this process. I hope it does.

Yeah Auuv'a has impressed. I think he is a massive influence on the younger guys in the Pro 12. Ryan would really benefit playing alongside such a beast. I hope Jennings does fight for his place. Competition is great. Brings the best out of the players.

I think having McLaughlin, Jennings and O'Brien might be your best back row right now. With Ryan replacing Jennings eventually.

Now that I think about it, Heaslip must be the most experienced option now in the back row? Crazy, his debut felt like it was yesterday.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

profitius wrote:I rate Cathal O'Flaherty in Munster highly. 6'6" fast and has good hands. Missed out on the Ireland U20s last season for some reason (maybe workrate??) but the talent is there.

At 6 foot 6 should be not look at playing in the second row? Not a huge amount of depth there.

Maybe. Munster have a few locks though. Depends on Penney I'd say.

Could be Rory man. Leinsters plethora of existing and emerging backrow talent, can be a blessing, but, there comes a time when the backlog has to be shifted. We cant play them all, or keep them all happy. Something has to give there. Its a waste of talent and careers.

I would much rather see them played for Ulster, Munster and Connacht. The new IRFU Objective will accelerate this anyway.

Jenno, at Connacht, could really shift them along. Make him Captain. He'd really up their level. I dont care what anyone says, he has been the best natural 7 in Ireland, for years. But he cant hold back the years or stem talent coming through much longer. His experience is immense. 4 x HC Finals. That's what Connacht needs.

Would Ulster have him, or is Henry the One? Im not sure.

Currently they have depth, with O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Ryan. However, in 2 years POC/DOC will possibly be retired, and Ryan will be 30. Then there is Nagle (hasn't impressed so far really) and Dave O'Callaghan, who might end up in the back row. He is 6 foot 5 as far as I am aware. Who else do Munster have apart from these guys?

Gibson wrote:Could be Rory man. Leinsters plethora of existing and emerging backrow talent, can be a blessing, but, there comes a time when the backlog has to be shifted. We cant play them all, or keep them all happy. Something has to give there. Its a waste of talent and careers.

I would much rather see them played fo Ulster, Munster and Connacht. The new IRFU Objective will accelerate this anyway.

A waste of a contract as well you could say, which could be used in developing props (for example, give Furlong a contract ASAP). Munster/Ulster need a few guys, though unfortunately Ruddock has already turned Ulster down. I don't think he is going to have a choice pretty soon, if he wants any reasonable amount of game time. I certainly hope he is behind Ryan at this point.

Speaking of Furlong btw, looks like Ireland might end up with a full Leinster front row in Healy, Cronin and Furlong.

[quote="Rory_Gallagher"]

Gibson wrote:Could be Rory man. Leinsters plethora of existing and emerging backrow talent, can be a blessing, but, there comes a time when the backlog has to be shifted. We cant play them all, or keep them all happy. Something has to give there. Its a waste of talent and careers.

I would much rather see them played fo Ulster, Munster and Connacht. The new IRFU Objective will accelerate this anyway.

A waste of a contract as well you could say, which could be used in developing props (for example, give Furlong a contract ASAP). Munster/Ulster need a few guys, though unfortunately Ruddock has already turned Ulster down. I don't think he is going to have a choice pretty soon, if he wants any reasonable amount of game time. I certainly hope he is behind Ryan at this point.

Speaking of Furlong btw, looks like Ireland might end up with a full Leinster front row in Healy, Cronin and Furlong. [/quote]

Strauss, to me, is the best 2 in Ireland now and he will be available (IQ), in October. Id rather have Irish-born players for Ireland, but his talent is unquestionable. And he didnt make the rules.

Really Gibson? I think Cronin has more potential. I honestly do. I seriously hope he replaces Strass soon enough.

Big fan of Strauss, hope he doesnt get capped by Ireland though.

If he was playing like he was last year he might be the best in Ireland but i think Best is still ahead of him. I think Cronin and Strauss would be on a similiar level.

Joe Schmidt doesnt think so Golden. He is an incredible scrumagger and is a modern-day, dynamic hooker. He has it all. And he shines in the HC. Against everyone he's ever played against. No matter who. Including Best. No more proof needed imo.

Best will be under enormous pressure next season. For sure. All good. This is what we have always wanted.

I still think Cronin offers more than Strauss. They are both the same age, so that is going to be an interesting battle.

Well Cronin has seen significant game time in the HC as well so I dont think Strauss is rated too much higher. but like i said i think strauss is capable of more. Last year some of his performances were amazing but i dont think hes quite hit those heights this year.

If they do decide to cap Strauss though, one things for sure, we will have some depth at hooker.

Yeah lads. Id love Cronin to eclipse him, if Im honest. Let the best man nail the spot. Its a great position to be in, specially when you look back to a tme, when we'd freak out if De Fla got injured. Not any more.

It will be the same with Sexton/Madigan. No more freaking out about ROG getting injured or retiring.

Well covered at the back, just need to sort a future centre-pairing out. And get some TH's and Locks. 2 top-class internationals for every position. Seamlessly replacing each other.

Believe.

Hanrahan as well, and Jackson. As for Madigan, I see him getting a lot of game time at 12 over the next few seasons. I think it is clear that D'Arcy is being moved on and McFadden just isn't cutting it right now. Madigan needs game time, so he should play at 12 alongside Sexton and O'Driscoll. None of this Sexton moving to 12 business either. Madigan would suit 12 a LOT more.

Could happen Rory man. Also, we know now that Darcy and Paddy Wallace are being phased out at last.

Also, I wouldnt rule out McFadden being Leinster & Irelands next 12. Fitzy has to come back remember?

McFadden and Cave for me as a future pairing. As of now. Who knows what pans out? I hope BOD hangs up his international boots post-Lions. He wont give up hope of making that.

A lot will depend on our NEW coach and how he seés it. Kidney is trying hard to make Earls a centre. Hes not. He's a winger.

And Fitzgerald may also make a great 12 yet.

I can't see Earls even playing at 13 for Munster next season to be honest. Laulala has looked pretty fab for the barbarians and has always been a big name for Cardiff. He will be the 13. Fitz will surely go back to wing when he returns? Leinster had/have the best back three in europe, hands down. Nacewa, Kearney and Fitz. It doesn't get much more exciting than that like.

I think McFadden has been pretty terrible in defence honestly Gibson, though he hasn't had a chance to play 12 in a while really.

Mcfadden needs to push Darcy aside at Leinster 1st and get a full season in all the key games at 12. Then we'll know.

As you say, he hasnt been given the room up till now, but is such a great footballer, Leinster and Ireland play him on the wing.

Which would you prefer?

12. McFadden
13. BOD

or

12. BOD
13. O'Malley

Think id prefer the latter. I like McFadden but he has a tendancy to make mistakes in defence. Think O'Driscoll inside O'Malley would be very exciting and would stand to O'Malley enormously.

Ps. Match is at half 8 tomorrow right??

After BOD retires, and Nacewa moves on, this will be your future back line:

9) Reddan
10) Sexton
11) Fitzgerald
12) Madigan
13) Kearney Jr
14) McFadden
15) Kearney Sr

You heard it here first. Though I think I stole the idea off Fly, for Kearney Jr at 13. Strong, fast and clever. Good option there.

Golden, I am not sure, but I think it is at half 8. I asked at the pub! I'll let you know if they reply. Also I think that centre partnership would have the fancy footwork, but lack the physicality required. O'Driscoll should play 12 though. With Kearney Jr outside him.

Its starts at 9:35 am my time. 8:35 your time. Hope I wake up. 2 alarms set and the missus warned to throw water over if Im not up. She'll love that.

And yes BOD may need to move to 12 for a season or 2 and help nuture a new 13. It could be O Malley. For Leinster anyway. He's brilliant.

Night y'all

Night Gibson! Hopefully we shall be celebrating tomorrow brother.

Cheers lads, better wake up now.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Currently they have depth, with O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Ryan. However, in 2 years POC/DOC will possibly be retired, and Ryan will be 30. Then there is Nagle (hasn't impressed so far really) and Dave O'Callaghan, who might end up in the back row. He is 6 foot 5 as far as I am aware. Who else do Munster have apart from these guys?

Nagle, Foley and Brian Hayes. Theres also a few more young players floating around who could make it.

I don't really rate Ruddock at all. I wouldn't mind losing him.

What about Ryan Feckless? What are your thoughts on him?

Ryan looks to be a real talent...he'll be on the ireland team soon

What do you think of this back row as Ireland's future?

6) O'Mahony
7) Ryan
8) O'Brien

I think that would cover all bases. O'Brien would have more chances to run riot as well.

If Ryan is the real deal, he needs to be developed ASAP. Watching Ireland right now is just depressing, I want to see some talent.

Would you have o'mahony starting ahead of ferris?

Nope, definitely not at this point. I do not know how long Ferris will be available though. I hope that we see Ryan, Ferris, O'Brien and O'Mahony as our 4 main guys for the back row in the near future. Unlikely though, Heaslip will probably always be around.

I would say Munster are looking at:

06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Niall Ronan
08 James Coughlan

06 David O'Callaghan
07 Tommy O'Donnell
08 Paddy Butler

Not good enough!

I think that Donnacha Ryan may actually seen a lot of gametime at 6

Stag and rory, realistically which of the leinster back rows would you like your province to sign?

red_stag wrote:I would say Munster are looking at:

06 Peter O'Mahony
07 Niall Ronan
08 James Coughlan

06 David O'Callaghan
07 Tommy O'Donnell
08 Paddy Butler

Not good enough!

I think that Donnacha Ryan may actually seen a lot of gametime at 6

Alongside O'Brien?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Stag and rory, realistically which of the leinster back rows would you like your province to sign?

Well, considering the fact that Ruddock has already turned us down.. I guess we would look at developing Conan or Coughlan.

If we were to sign a Leinster backrow realistically Id like Kevin McLaughlin

I don't think that would be realistic stag. They wouldn't let him go.