The Leinster back row.

First topic message reminder :

So, after watching the JWC again today, there are a few standout guys for Ireland who look like they have potential. Particularly in the back row, which is made up entirely of Leinster players:

6) Coughlan
7) Gilsenan
8) Conan

Conan and Gilsenan in particular have been very good, and Coughlan also looks very powerful. They all show potential, but then you just look at the competition ahead of them for Leinster, never mind looking at international prospects for the future. Leinster have the following guys in their back row, who have all started for Leinster this season at some point:

O'Brien
Heaslip
McLaughlin
Jennings
Ryan
Ruddock
Auva'a
Murphy

That is a crazy amount of depth and talent there. As Stand and a few other guys have pointed out in the game thread, Ulster/Munster are starting to look bare in those areas, so it would be wise for the IRFU to start sending these guys elsewhere for more game time. As an Ulster/Munster/Connacht fan, who would you most like to see sign for your province? Realistically. And for the Leinster fans (or anyone else) who are you most excited about? Who would you not mind leaving for another province? Who would you like to hold onto?

To me, looking at that group of highly talented players, the likes of Ruddock, Auva'a, McLaughlin, Jennings and Murphy will never see past provincial honours. I am personally most excited about Ryan out of that group, and hope he gets game time this year.

What players would like leinster to sign over the summer?

We need a 2nd row for cover after that everything else is just padding.We should be looking to develop our young 2nd rows,props and centres next year.

Has anyone heard if fitzgerald is staying or leaving...he hasnt signed a new contract yet has he?

Gibson wrote:

Notch wrote:We have a few players who simply don't buy into that Irish inferiority 'ah, sure we'll have a go mindset"- I seriously Stephen Ferris, Brian O'Driscoll, Johnny Sexton, Paul O'Connell, Rory Best, Rob Kearney etc. are ever found to talk about 'moral victories' and they've no fear. They want to win, nothing else matters much. And if they have to take risks to win they absolutely will. But that doesn't matter if the same mentality doesn't exist in their colleagues and coaches.

Neil Best, on the other hand, just seems to be more of a gobshoite than a maverick.

:dressedorange:

They are so far and few between though Notch. We really must stop this dreaming. We will never compete at the high-end unless we find out how to change our DNA. And psyche.
The Give it a Lash Era, is still with us and thriving. In all our sporting endeavours.

I thought it might change with your generation, but it has not.
It is getting better in Ireland. But as it does,the likes of NZ are producing the higher goods to keep it at bay.

We need to shaag Maoris & Saffers and breed Irish versions of em.

I actually disagree with this to be honest lads. I think if anything we need more of the Irish amateur era passion fuelled performances that this Irish team seriously lack. I don't know what it is, but Kidney's Ireland have rarely looked like a team afraid of the jersey. It seems like a weight around them, like the England football shirt. When Ireland have been driven with real old fashioned passion and ferver we hammered England and Australia. Too many times I watch a team afraid to lose rather than seeking to win.

Good point. You could say that goes with the tactics that Kidney employs also. He wants to kill the opposition's game, and play for territory and safety. No risks taken, no innovation or creative play to try and score some points. Afraid to lose, so they play "safe".

For all the criticism of O'Sullivan and his selections, and there were many, his team fell at the last hurdle and it always seemed it was through the pressure of expectation. I thought Kidney to his credit solved that by winning the Grand Slam playing successful, functional rugby. If I wrote this in an international forum the Welsh fans would slaughter me, but this Welsh side play nothing more than that. They are functional and limited. Pass to Roberts, bosh up the middle, phase, phase, find a gap, whip it wide and score. That is the mark of what a good job Gatland has done as Welsh coach. He has completely changed the expectations of the Welsh public from playing to so called 'Welsh way' to playing consistent winning rugby. The difference between Gatland and Kidney is that I expect Gatland will expand on these tactics and mould Wales into a better team than they currently are which would be a very good side indeed. Kidney is still stuck in 2009. I actually thought in 2010 he tried to expand slightly on the Grand Slam season, and the evidence of the Welsh and English victories suggested he was going the right way. All of a sudden he has gone backwards. Now for the past 18months- 2 years this has been a team with possibly the lowest expectations in almost a decade. I'm now on the replace Kidney bandwagon after the first test against the All Blacks. There's is palpable lack of positivity from the players and a real end of an era feeling about this management team since the England match. I just wonder if the IRFU have the bottle to make a change.

Agree with all of that Hookie, analysis of the Welsh team is spot on too.

Something people miss about Leinster as well is that they play very simple rugby...no miracle balls...just a simple short passing a game...based around quick ruck ball and support runners running into space.

Wales too, send a big runner down the middle, recycle quickly and go again...when the numbers appear or the defence splits support players are on the ball carrier shoulder.

Its all very simple stuff. Irelands attacking play is all over the place....the confidence is gone now and the fitness and defensive resolve are faultering.

Gibson wrote:
We need to shaag Maoris & Saffers and breed Irish versions of em.

Do you think the best Maori/Polynesian team would be capable of beating a team of McCaw, Carter, Conrad Smith, Read, Franks etc?

profitius wrote:

Gibson wrote:
We need to shaag Maoris & Saffers and breed Irish versions of em.

Do you think the best Maori/Polynesian team would be capable of beating a team of McCaw, Carter, Conrad Smith, Read, Franks etc?

Carter is part Maori- enough that he's eligible for NZ Maori.

profitius wrote:

Gibson wrote:
We need to shaag Maoris & Saffers and breed Irish versions of em.

Do you think the best Maori/Polynesian team would be capable of beating a team of McCaw, Carter, Conrad Smith, Read, Franks etc?

Oh yes. Big time. When the Keewees were white, they were shoite. Even Munster beat them.

And a bit of cross-breeding helped exponentially too.

Im all for it.

Gibson wrote:

profitius wrote:

Gibson wrote:
We need to shaag Maoris & Saffers and breed Irish versions of em.

Do you think the best Maori/Polynesian team would be capable of beating a team of McCaw, Carter, Conrad Smith, Read, Franks etc?

Oh yes. Big time. When the Keewees were white, they were shoite. Even Munster beat them.

And a bit of cross-breeding helped exponentially too.

Im all for it.

I doubt it.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Has anyone heard if fitzgerald is staying or leaving...he hasnt signed a new contract yet has he?

According to the IT he hasn't signed yet and he's out injured until 2013:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0613/1224317816205.html

Looks like Leinster are signing a NIQ 2nd row as well, any names?

Thats quite exciting that they are in talks with a number of players for the 2nd row...will we need to sign an irish utility back to cover for luke's injury...carr will get a lot more gametime now in the rabbo

Carr, Conway, D.Kearney, R.Kearney, Nacewa and McFadden all cover the back 3, I’d say if we’re lucky with injuries we could get away without signing a back 3 player.

Much more interested in who we’re in talks with in the second row…

Did damien brown get signed by anyone yet?

Is McLaughlin possibly going to be played at second row more next season for Leinster?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Is McLaughlin possibly going to be played at second row more next season for Leinster?

I doubt it. We'll have Toner, Cullen, Flanagan, Denton and AN other for next year. Probably enough.

Oh yeah, forgot about that Denton fella. Flanagan has looked pretty good when I have seen him. Is he a young guy?

Yeah, he's 22. He's played well but he's only started 2 games. Hopefully he continues to improve next year. I'd say he'll get enough game time to prove himself a contender.

Isnt flanagan related to toner?

Yeah, they’re first cousins I think.

Anyone have any sort of opinion on how good Denton and Bent are?

Haven't really heard anything about them to be honest. So long as neither is another clint newland they will do fine.

Leinster do have too many backrow players in the pipeline. You need loads of cover for injuries across the 3 positions anyway but even still, they have too many. What they don't have is second row depth. Props have decent cover, scrum half okay, outhalf has sexton/madigan (reid?) and across the backs there is lots of depth (if a bit on the light side in terms of having a crash ball option available).

Two of the quality extra backrowers (and which two is up for debate) should be offered in return for a Nagle from Munster, Swift from Connacht or Henderson from Ulster. A straight player for player swap would seem too much of a good thing to Leinster, which is why I think 2 backrows to shore up a quality lock option would work.

Leinster Academy List 2012/13:

Edward Byrne (Loosehead Prop) 1
Brian Byrne (Hooker) 1
Gavin Thornbury (2nd Row) 1
Tadgh Beirne (2nd Row) 1
Dan Leavy (Flanker) 1
Josh Van Der Flier (Openside Flanker) 1
Jack Conan (Number Eight) 1
Cathal Marsh (Out-half) 1
James Tracey (Loosehead Prop) 2
Tadhg Furlong (Tighthead Prop) 2
Martin Moore (Tighthead Prop) 2
David Doyle (Hooker) 2
Conor Gilsenan (Openside) 2
Jordan Coughlan (Back-row) 2
Luke McGrath (Scrum-half) 2
Collie O'Shea (Centre) 2
Michael Sherlock (Full-back) 2
Andrew Boyle (Wing) 2
Jack O'Connell (Loosehead Prop) 3
Jordi Murphy (Back-row) 3
Ben Marshall (2nd Row) 3
Noel Reid (Out-half/Centre) 3
Darren Hudson (Wing) 3
Sam Coghlan Murray (Wing) 3

24 man academy.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/10073.php