So what did we all learn about the SH and NH teams this weekend ? ? ?

New Zealand 42 - 10 (HT 23 - 3) Ireland

Tries:Savea 3, Thomson, Smith Tries:McFadden
Penalties:Carter 3 Penalties:Sexton
Conversions:Carter 4 Conversions:Sexton


Australia 27 - 19 (HT 10 - 3) Wales

Tries:
Higginbotham, Genia, McCabe Tries:Cuthbert
Penalties:Barnes Penalties:Halfpenny 4
Drop-goals:Barnes
Conversions:Barnes 3 Conversions:Halfpenny


South Africa 22 - 17 (HT 6 - 6) England

Tries:Steyn, de Villiers Tries:Foden
Penalties:Steyn 4 Penalties:Farrell 4


Pretty conclusive win by the Blacks over Ireland but Ireland did very well in the first half, new players looked good. But the ABs were sublime, making rugby look like the easiest game in the world.

Aussies really hit form, Wales were off colour, there is still a series here.

SA looked great in the 2nd third, made heaps of mistakes particularly goal kicking, but a strong scrum and great defending held out. This series is far from over if England can up their game, most likely be shuffling the squad for the match day team...

What we learnt

Aus and SA are not unbeatable, but they are still hard to beat.

NZ are unbeatable.

Wales have a chance, England will struggle at altitude but may still have a chance, Ireland have no hope.

We learnt that England mobile athletic pack is not tough enough and farrell should be nowhere near an.international fh spot.

GeordieFalcon wrote:We learnt that England mobile athletic pack is not tough enough and farrell, preistland and hook should be nowhere near an.international fh spot.

Fixed that for you.

If you not going to use him, can we have Toby Flood...we can give you Tipuric when we aren't using him.

Mate your right....

Mentally the likes of Ireland and Wales seem to be too weak to perform in the NH.

This Australia side isnt actually all that great. Very beatable. The problem is that Wales have been overhyped massively since the Grand Slam and been touted by many as being a class apart from the other 6 Nations side when the competition indicated the margins were actually quite close. Australia will have been stung by the loss to Scotland, even though it was basically a B fixture for them. So some backlash was expected. If Wales cant pick up a win in this series then there is something not right.

Ireland? Well business as usual regarding New Zealand. I actually fear after that drubbing that this series could wind up being a humiliation. Traditionally they been mentally the weakest of the NH sides that cant handle expectation. Nobody expected anything from them from this series but the gulf in class is just too much but they have never beaten the All Blacks and this is firmly in their mentality. If the next two fixtures go the same route it can only knock the confidence even from the side who arent exactly brimming with it anyway. They better hope NZ throw out a few schoolboys for the last test.

England played well today and looked the best of the three. But I feel they should have won this test. However unlike Ireland they will go into the next test believing they can compete and win. Lets hope Wales can do the same. Of the three, England look the most likely to escape with a win under their belt. South africa are typically strong and robust but have limitations.

We've learnt that Wales need to find a 10 that can play well in high pressure games away from home..

If only we had a 10 that recently beat a top side (maybe a side that could be concidered champions), in an important match away from home..

Hmm do we have one of those some where?

Personally I think SA kept England in the match to an extent, we missed 3 kicks unlike Morne Steyn to do that, and Hougaard stupidly took a quick tap right in front of the posts.

We should have led by more in the end.

One thing is for cartain, it took us 40 minutes to gain parity at the breakdown, we struggled to get enough numbers to the breakdown by being to late to arrive, and Hougaard needs a quiet word spoken to him about the time he is wasting behind the ruck.

England however played good rugby, the were very physical, I was impressed by their back three, Tuilagi though was shut down well and needs to offload more.

Tuilagi still makes too many silly errors that can be critical at test international level. He needs to cut them out.

Gordy that could have been a excellent post apart from the obvious wumming.
What I have learnt is that SH fans have far more respect towards sides in their own hemisphere than NH fans.

Cymroglan wrote:Gordy that could have been a excellent post apart from the obvious wumming.
What I have learnt is that SH fans have far more respect towards sides in their own hemisphere than NH fans.

That is sadly very true, Cymro.

biltongbek wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:Gordy that could have been a excellent post apart from the obvious wumming.
What I have learnt is that SH fans have far more respect towards sides in their own hemisphere than NH fans.

That is sadly very true, Cymro.

Hey bill, well done on the result, plenty to be excited about there... Great scrum, good defence, goal kicking practice needed after school this week but other wise SA looking handy...

GeordieFalcon wrote:We learnt that England mobile athletic pack is not tough enough and farrell should be nowhere near an.international fh spot.

Bingo. I'd add that our mobile athletic pack is also not mobile or athletic enough. This pack does not have the right blend. The boiler room is pretty mobile, but horribly underpowered. The back-row is not bad but we lack an Alberts type carrier. Morgan is the closest we have and he seems some way off.

Who do you think played well?

Hood83 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:We learnt that England mobile athletic pack is not tough enough and farrell should be nowhere near an.international fh spot.

Bingo. I'd add that our mobile athletic pack is also not mobile or athletic enough. This pack does not have the right blend. The boiler room is pretty mobile, but horribly underpowered. The back-row is not bad but we lack an Alberts type carrier. Morgan is the closest we have and he seems some way off.

Who do you think played well?

Hood,

I thought Johnson and Robshaw did well, so did Parling... Brown and Foden looked good in the backline but didnt get enough ball.

It should be obvious but the relative strengths of the 6n sides is heavily dependent on whom they are playing, and considering that none of the results were much of a surprise.

Would England or Wales have fared much better against NZ? Probably not.

Would Ireland or England have beaten Oz? Who knows?

Would Wales or Ireland have given SA more of a fright? Depends.

The bottom line is NH 0 SH 3.

We learnt that Ireland probably have the least exciting/dangerous back line in the world. Positives are that we beat NZ at the breakdown.

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:Gordy that could have been a excellent post apart from the obvious wumming.
What I have learnt is that SH fans have far more respect towards sides in their own hemisphere than NH fans.

That is sadly very true, Cymro.

Hey bill, well done on the result, plenty to be excited about there... Great scrum, good defence, goal kicking practice needed after school this week but other wise SA looking handy...

Thanks Maes, I am satisfied, much I was worried about proved to be wrong, from what I saw tonight there are a lot of positives to take out.

Actually I didnt see enough of parling. Yeah lineout he did.ok..but I barely saw him ball in hand....especially for an ex back row player. Get garvey and ill take it back...Lawes in.

Elsewhere Marler showed why corbs is no.1 mears should.be nowhere near England....Ashton has poor skills other than pace ....yet we still.nearly beat them.

Start flood corbs and palmer with Botha and we might do.better next week.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Actually I didnt see enough of parling. Yeah lineout he did.ok..but I barely saw him ball in hand....especially for an ex back row player. Get garvey and ill take it back...Lawes in.

Elsewhere Marler showed why corbs is no.1 mears should.be nowhere near England....Ashton has poor skills other than pace ....yet we still.nearly beat them.

Start flood corbs and palmer with Botha and we might do.better next week.

Geordie your right, but you need a centre who can play football too... De-Villiers and Steyne looked really classy in comparison.

biltongbek wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:Gordy that could have been a excellent post apart from the obvious wumming.
What I have learnt is that SH fans have far more respect towards sides in their own hemisphere than NH fans.

That is sadly very true, Cymro.

Hey bill, well done on the result, plenty to be excited about there... Great scrum, good defence, goal kicking practice needed after school this week but other wise SA looking handy...

Thanks Maes, I am satisfied, much I was worried about proved to be wrong, from what I saw tonight there are a lot of positives to take out.

I think so too. Very much a stereo typical Bok team, Big bruising front row, surprisingly athletic second row, tough as nails dynamo backrow, a fast scrum half, a measured calculated flyhalf, tough and creative centres and a quick back three... Could have been 1995.

Good basics, certainly not many changes needed ahead of the next test, just a bit more training. Especially goal kicking practice...!!!

mankiaow wrote:It should be obvious but the relative strengths of the 6n sides is heavily dependent on whom they are playing, and considering that none of the results were much of a surprise.

Would England or Wales have fared much better against NZ? Probably not.

Would Ireland or England have beaten Oz? Who knows?

Would Wales or Ireland have given SA more of a fright? Depends.

The bottom line is NH 0 SH 3.

Nope, bottom line is NH 1 SH 3

Don't think we learned anything we didn't already know.

We learn that the aging AB players from RWC squad still in the team, Ali Williams and Piri Weepu can be cut loose now because the young replacement are better player anyway. All blacks are not make the mistake of Eng/SA in hold on to much to the RWC winners.

We also learn that SBW a bit vulnerable and that Julian Savea carry the ball under the wrong arm for left winger.

We learn Dan Carter back from injury and can kick very well still!

We learn Genia is the best 9 in the world and maybe most influential player in the game.

We learn Ireland have a good back row and good skill to the breakdown and need working on the defending! and not kick away the ball to best attacking back three in the world!

We learn England steady and competing and deserve #4 place but still worry about best 10/12/13 combinator and miss composure about a "rock" like Martin Johnson or Laurence Dallaglio when they get under pressure.

We learn SA typical terrifying, huge, aggresive and direct and very frighten to anyone when they get up the momentum. But maybe lack some subtle.

wales606 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:We learnt that England mobile athletic pack is not tough enough and farrell, preistland and hook should be nowhere near an.international fh spot.

Fixed that for you.

If you not going to use him, can we have Toby Flood...we can give you Tipuric when we aren't using him.

As Hook hasn't featured at 10 for Wales since the WC - excepting a pretty good 12 min cameo against the Ba-Bas - I don't think that we learnt anything new about his abilities there this weekend. "Hook should be nowhere near an intrnational spot at 15" - yes, maybe.

Wales Do have other options at Fullback should there be a space and I would think that Hook would not be first choice, as a defined ten/utility back he is a great bench player.

He looked very wayward today... Byrne or Williams would be better choices.

Can I still have Flood though?

He would walk into this Welsh team, probably the only English player that would.

Only two areas
Kick chase
Speed at the breakdown

SH superior in both departments

Next week the real good hidings will be dished out

GeordieFalcon wrote:...yet we still.nearly beat them.

.

Eh? what game wer you watching. Never looked like winning, SA were clearly the better team in all areas bar the breakdown in the first half.

England hardly created a chance and hardly made a break

I just watch again the England game and I really am riddled by the plan. It was not coherence. I think they adhoc adapt under pressure but gain again the composure to come back. There is a good sign of character...

I only watched the first half but even then I saw 3 breaks, 1 could have been a try if Ashton hadn't spilled the ball in a routine tackle, so you are just wrong TJ. I have no need to make England seem better than we were, I expect to lose this series but do claim things that just aren't true. Admittedly those breaks conspicuously didn't involve Farrell touching the ball...

Hardly made a break, hardly created a chance

- not none but not enough to look like winning or to claim the better team. They lost and were flattered by the scoreboard.

You have to stop the self delusion by the players coaches and fans if you actually want to improve. Be honest

We learnt that England are effectively South Africa Lite - and thus lost to the full calorie version.

Ireland are Baileys, some great ingredients but the combination is horrid.

Wales still have a mental block in tight games against top teams.

LondonTiger wrote:We learnt that England are effectively South Africa Lite - and thus lost to the full calorie version.

Kinda like the sugar free version?

We learnt that Wales still can't win the big games, they had to win this one to stand a chance of winning the series.

Ireland are very poor at International level, which is weird when you look at the talented players that they have.

and England are still improving and need to stick with this current crop of players because they could be contenders in 2015 RWC

Plus we learnt that some MODS don't have a sense of humour when we try and determine who had the Moral victory today.

Wasn't the mods hersh, perhaps your sense of humour is often misplaced?

Observations,NZ and SA started slowly and got better as the match went on.Aus started well then let Wales back in,Ireland did fairly well up front backs let them down.England Forwards lack grunt in the Lock area,Tuilagi must learn to unload instead of trying to do it himself.Farrell is very limited options at 10,Toby Flood please.Australia will have a stronger team without injuries,ditto SA.SA mixed it up well second half,maybe allaying Biltongs fears.NZ need to work on discipline in the breakdown area,too many penalties.Try a few new more faces
Romano for Ali Williams?Beauden Barrett covering FB would add another goal kicker to the squad.Ellis for Weepu[for 4Ns with Smith,Thomson starting at 6,Vito covering 8.Maybe Sam Cane or Matt Todd have a bit of time at 7?further down the line[AI`s].Savea looks the goods almost Joe Rock like,Nonu to start at some point.Retalick looked good at the basic Lock stuff[in the engine room]Vic Cavanaghs[both] would have approved of that.

biltongbek wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:We learnt that England are effectively South Africa Lite - and thus lost to the full calorie version.

Kinda like the sugar free version?

two stroke and four stroke.

HERSH wrote:Plus we learnt that some MODS don't have a sense of humour when we try and determine who had the Moral victory today.

I thought it was funny.

Kaino and Jane are still the 1st choice. Weepu and Williams are out of form. SBW is still a work in progress.

Get Real Kaino after injury is Japan Bound ,AllBlacks career over now sad but there it is.

One thing we did learn was that the All blacks have a passing half back for the first time in ages. Nigel owens was also very impressed with Smith's passing judging by the number of times he wanted to play First five for the ABs.

Your right he is. However, it's short term and he still intends to come back. The question will be when and what form he will be in. Planty of time for others to step up. However, if he was fit today he'd be in my team.

emack2 wrote:Get Real Kaino after injury is Japan Bound ,AllBlacks career over now sad but there it is.

What was with his positioning, I can't remember a ref gatting his body in the way as much.

aucklandlaurie wrote: One thing we did learn was that the All blacks have a passing half back for the first time in ages. Nigel owens was also very impressed with Smith's passing judging by the number of times he wanted to play First five for the ABs.

And when we have uncontested scrums, why do we still have to have "crouch,touch,pause, engage'?

We learnt that SH teams dont need as mutch time to prepare for an International game as NH teams do.

Yeah, Majestic, I expected Wales and England to possibly win this weekend, New Zealand was always going to be too good for Ireland.

SA and OZ will be even better next weekend

We learnt that the Welsh camp better stop talking about wanting to beat the SH teams and actually start doing it

biltongbek wrote:Yeah, Majestic, I expected Wales and England to possibly win this weekend, New Zealand was always going to be too good for Ireland.

SA and OZ will be even better next weekend

Yes so did i to be honest with you. I thought that this was the best time for both England and Wales to pick up a win.

Ireland though, i did not think that they would get any where near a win against New Zealand.

Next week if, if, England and Wales are going to get a win, they will have to play a lot better than this week.

gowales wrote:We learnt that the Welsh camp better stop talking about wanting to beat the SH teams and actually start doing it

+1,000,000