Australia v Wales First Test post mortem.

Ok so Ive watched the game a couple of times now and have come to a few conclusions.

Australias kicking game was much better than ours Whlist we are ahead on the possessoin stats (54%) that possession was in our own half. Halfpenny dealt with the expected bombs but our kick return and chase was poor. When compared to the RWC and Six Nations, it was very very poor. Priestland has to hold his hand up here and look at his kicking from hand. Execution was poor.

The scrum and lineout went well, 100% in the line is unheard of for Wales Charteris was the target man and secured 5 out of wales throws. However, in the scrum we need to learn to adapt to the referees calls. Yesterday the kids were suffering from the same problem and changed it on the pitch, you could hear them call before every scrum "no early engage) after they had been pinged a couple of times. If our kids can do it our first team should. Lack of concentration cost us.

The turnovers conceded was a real worry with Priestland Halfpenny and Davies the main culprits with 4,4 and 3 repsectively. Whilst the rest of Halfpennys game was good he does get turned over in defence too often. The other two had bad days at the office and those stats are a concern.

Defensively Shaun is not going to be a happy bunny. Three tries conceded and 10 first up tackles missed is not the kind of stats we have become accucstomed to. Faletau normally very good in defence missed two and had only a 50% success rate when he was hauled off. Lydiate was again awesome in defence with 18 made none missed and his chopping technique was certainly effective. However again execution was poor.

Our ball carrierrs made the same amount of yardage as the Aussies but again pinned back as they were with the ozzie kicking game they had more to make up, Unsurprisingly Cuthbert was our top carrier in terms of yardage with 105 exceeded only by Genia on 116 yards from scrum half! Priestland didnt show any threat with the ball carrying only three times and only making two yards. For me he seemed to take the wrong option a lot during the game.

Conclusions?

1. Well firstly we need to improve the kicking game, we must chase our kicks much better.
2. we need to cut turnovers down,
3. Some changes, from the stats Faletau, Davies and Priestland werent at the races today.
4. Injuries permitting North back with Scott if he is fit, Becks beautiful offload but needs to offer more in defence.
5. Our carriers in the pack need to step up. Hibbard to the bench perhaps as it is certainly an excellent part of his game but that would be harsh on Owens.
6. Hook needs to start at ten against the brumbies and demonstrate if he is in a position to take RP's place.
7. Get Genia! Phillips needs to attack him much more and use his physicality as do our back row. stop Genia and I think you stop the Ozzies.
8. maybe have a whipround and see if we can get biltong to send susie to melbourne for us.

9. Preistland was krap again and not improving but getting worse.
10. defence at the fringes was poor for the first try, three times Aus got though for the try, they improved when the subs came on.

glamorganalun wrote:9. Preistland was krap again and not improving but getting worse.
10. defence at the fringes was poor for the first try, three times Aus got though for the try, they improved when the subs came on.

9. Agree thats why I think Hook must start on tuesday,
10 Faletau and Phillips missed three tackles between them and gave genia fasr too much space.

Wales were police ruthless about the offside line. In 6N they got away a lot with being too quickly up. What JD like to screaming "look at the line speed".

But when the rush defense can't "anticipating" then makes the space on the dog leg made by uncertain in the individuals in the line and was exploit by Genia. Wales a bit lucky that Beale, JOC and Cooper not there because they all know the same tricks

My mind is Wales underestimate the Wallabies and maybe missed some homework about less famous players like Hooper who made a big wave when he arrive. Maybe miss the head coach to knowledge about it?

Oh grey I see youve slipped back into being barely understandable again after slipping out of character during the matches.

Anyway I think your right that the welsh underestimated the ozzies and believed the hype. Hopefully this will have given them a wake up call.

Wales can play much better and I dont mind losing as long as they show how good they are. TOday they let their standards drop and there is no excuse.

Shaun Edwards and Howley have a lot of shouting to do this week. Hopefully Gatland will be back to help out - I hope he has been resting his voice while on his little holiday

TycroesOsprey wrote:Oh grey I see youve slipped back into being barely understandable again after slipping out of character during the matches.

Anyway I think your right that the welsh underestimated the ozzies and believed the hype. Hopefully this will have given them a wake up call.

Wales can play much better and I dont mind losing as long as they show how good they are. TOday they let their standards drop and there is no excuse.

I don't know what you are talk about. But anyway will depending a lot on if Australia get Beale, JOC and Cooper back in. Genia cannot play this good three times and not get target for shut down by Wales. Ioane and Vuna must get more busy too.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Oh grey I see youve slipped back into being barely understandable again after slipping out of character during the matches.

Anyway I think your right that the welsh underestimated the ozzies and believed the hype. Hopefully this will have given them a wake up call.

Wales can play much better and I dont mind losing as long as they show how good they are. TOday they let their standards drop and there is no excuse.

I don't know what you are talk about. But anyway will depending a lot on if Australia get Beale, JOC and Cooper back in. Genia cannot play this good three times and not get target for shut down by Wales. Ioane and Vuna must get more busy too.

I don't think Cooper will be back, isn't JOC out for the series now? Beale may return, he will be dangerous - especially as that moves AAC to the centres.

I thought Barnes kicking game was good today, as was his overall game - so I think he will stay there, rather than Beale.

The one thing about Barnes is he is not strong defensively. I would run straight at him all day. All the big guys, and Wales have a boat load of them. Straight at Barnes, every run up the middle, or whever they position him. Then, let's see what the second half brings. I think this is Wales best shot, and they can do it.

I think Wales have a reasonable shot this week. They can address breakdown and defensive issues, and they had penetration on attack. The issue is going to be how much the Aussies improve. No full training runs last week and they may struggle to get many this week (given two games last week)

blackcanelion wrote:I think Wales have a reasonable shot this week. They can address breakdown and defensive issues, and they had penetration on attack. The issue is going to be how much the Aussies improve. No full training runs last week and they may struggle to get many this week (given two games last week)

We have the brumbies to play though so it isnt ideal preperation for wales this week,

I thought the Brumbies game was in between the 2nd & 3rd tests?

bedfordwelsh wrote:I thought the Brumbies game was in between the 2nd & 3rd tests?

Na Tuesday http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8481452

I think a couple of players need to get back on the pitch so Howleys selection is going to be key.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I thought the Brumbies game was in between the 2nd & 3rd tests?

My mistake

honestly i thought so too.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:9. Preistland was krap again and not improving but getting worse.
10. defence at the fringes was poor for the first try, three times Aus got though for the try, they improved when the subs came on.

9. Agree thats why I think Hook must start on tuesday,
10 Faletau and Phillips missed three tackles between them and gave genia fasr too much space.

Hook was as bad as Priestland though surely? The guy is a headless chicken.

Hook didnt get turned over as often, offered a running threat, provided clean breaks and one of our top carriers. Has a bigger boot that Priestland. The one thing RP has which none of our other tens is distribution but yesterday he butchered two try scoring chances. RP is way off his best.

Looking at the stats the Australians kicking game and the turnovers conceded is what killed us. The ozzies did what France, Italy and England all tried to do but failed. Kick long pressurise the welsh runners and force turnovers.

We need to get our kicking game sorted first and for that we need Hook. We also need to improve in the pack and at the breakdown, so Ianto Smiler and possible Ryan to come in as our worst performers from the stats were Davies, Priestland and Faletau. Faletau may deserve a second chance as he normally brings athleticism and power from the base of the scrum. Davies and Priestland dont. BD needed a big game if he was going to keep Ianto out of the squad and he dissapeared. RP needs to find some form.

Give HOok a run against the brumbies and if he goes well take him off after 60 and play him in the second test. tell him its his for the taking before the brumbies match.

At least Hook can catch.

We did not get the basics right sort that out and we will win the next test.
Personally I believe that the Australian squad played very well and I doubt if they can play any better with the players they have available.

Cymroglan wrote:We did not get the basics right sort that out and we will win the next test.
Personally I believe that the Australian squad played very well and I doubt if they can play any better with the players they have available.

Part of me thinks we got suckered into believing the hype and underestimated them a bit. concentration levels and execution was very poor in the first half. When we woke up and actually started to play we looked dangerous, but still far too many errors and the standards have slipped since the 6 Ntaions.

Cymroglan wrote:We did not get the basics right sort that out and we will win the next test.
Personally I believe that the Australian squad played very well and I doubt if they can play any better with the players they have available.

Do you really believe that?

You need a plan B. this is Australia not the 6 Nations any more. Australia will have a few more gears and tricks up their sleeve. It's not just about Wales improving.

If a few other Aus players had been on Genia's wavelength is could have been very ugly for Wales by half-time.

sugarNspikes wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:We did not get the basics right sort that out and we will win the next test.
Personally I believe that the Australian squad played very well and I doubt if they can play any better with the players they have available.

Do you really believe that?

You need a plan B. this is Australia not the 6 Nations any more. Australia will have a few more gears and tricks up their sleeve. It's not just about Wales improving.

If a few other Aus players had been on Genia's wavelength is could have been very ugly for Wales by half-time.

Everyone needs a plan B (except the govt apparently) but Wales problems came from execution of plan A. cut out the mistakes and turnovers and kick better and we will be fine.

sugarNspikes
Yes I believe that or I would not have said it.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:We did not get the basics right sort that out and we will win the next test.
Personally I believe that the Australian squad played very well and I doubt if they can play any better with the players they have available.

Do you really believe that?

You need a plan B. this is Australia not the 6 Nations any more. Australia will have a few more gears and tricks up their sleeve. It's not just about Wales improving.

If a few other Aus players had been on Genia's wavelength is could have been very ugly for Wales by half-time.

Everyone needs a plan B (except the govt apparently) but Wales problems came from execution of plan A. cut out the mistakes and turnovers and kick better and we will be fine.

Problem being I think there was the assumption that the scrum would destroy Australia's and North and Cuthbert would gallop through players. It's a plan of sorts I guess.

It's a bit presumptious to assume that only Wales were making mistakes. Aus left a LOT of points out there. They will imagine they can improve a fair bit.

Somebody posted on here that Wales had enough to win and win well I won't embarrass them by revealing their identity.

I'd keep Toby. He had a bad day at the office and was his first tour. Don't forget, he just came off the back of his FIRST 6N, and was outstanding. It's nice to have an in form Jones to come on if need be. I would bring him on earlier however, if Toby is having another mare in the 2nd Test.

Ian Evans was missed and him and Charteris will be a good partnership. They may, however, want to continue the AWJ and Ianto partnership which I wouldn't argue against. AWJ will play against the Brumbies to get some much needed game time.

I think people are also being a bit harsh on Ken Owens. His line out throwing was excellent and although not his usual busy self around the field, he still made some useful yardage. I would bring Hibbard onto the bench ahead of Rees, he's scrummaged well for the O's this year and is a real threat in the loose. For me, the more O's forwards the better.

Hook Should play 10 against the Brumbies and if he has a good game I'd start him for the 2nd Test.

Kick chase like everyone else said has to be better, as does Phillips who was dreadful in the kicking department, and again was way too slow in his passing and was one of the main reasons why we weren't breaking over the gain line as often as we normally do.

Finally Clinical is the word that needs to be drummed in over the next week. The Aussies were just that and when they had a chance they took it. We had the 1/2p break which we should have scored and didn't. We had the Cuthbert break at 20-19 with a 5-2 overlap but a poor pass from Warbs and a poor catch from Preistland probably cost us the Test match in the end.

Allot of positives for me out of that performance and I'm still confident of a win next week. I think people are also forgetting that we are missing our head coach who has been a key figure over the last year or so. As much as its a team effort, Gatts, Howley and Edwards work very well together and with Gatts not around it may have had an affect. No excuses just an abvious observation.

Stone Motif wrote:Hook was as bad as Priestland though surely? The guy is a headless chicken.

The only mistake I saw Hook make was when I think Cuthbert or Halfpenny received a kick in our 22 and passed it straight to him with 2 or 3 Australians bearing down, not much he could have done under that sort of preassure, people are calling for Liam Williams to start at fullback but the guy was defensively weak against the Barbarians, if anything I'd have him on the wing.

sugarNspikes
Australia were beatable yesterday and you know it, We made several mistakes at key moments that butchered try scoring opportunities but Australia took theirs.
I'm sure you have watched Wales play in the recent past and would be aware that we do not normally make so many basic errors.

Looking at the Tuesday team I think Charteris has been dropped.

Cymroglan wrote:sugarNspikes
Australia were beatable yesterday and you know it, We made several mistakes at key moments that butchered try scoring opportunities but Australia took theirs.
I'm sure you have watched Wales play in the recent past and would be aware that we do not normally make so many basic errors.

No they didn't. They messed up several opportunities, including the one on the left wing when it should have been a walk-in. Plenty of basic errors by Aus too. It's not all about Wales, you know.

As I said there's a certain presumptiousness (arrogance? surely not!) that all Wales need to do is improve in a few areas and cut out errors and they'll win. It could easily have been all over by half time.

Re. Wales not making basic errors. It wasn't all unforced. You're playing Aus in Australia and they were smarting from defeat.

Australia are beatable. I'm just not convinced that Wales (or another NH side) can do it at the moment.

As I've previously posted, half the welsh team hadn't played rugby for months and the ones that have haven't set the world alight - then people wonder why they were "slow out of the blocks"

Australia had just come off a back of a loss where the one thing the did get good practice was the breakdown.

Matthew Rees carried the ball well, so he'll play Saturday
Ianto, Awj and Ryan jones will play

Disappointed by front row yesterday - not sure why wales wanted to engage early.

So...

Stop kicking the ball away
Get the ball into touch when they do have to kick.

sugarNspikes wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:sugarNspikes
Australia were beatable yesterday and you know it, We made several mistakes at key moments that butchered try scoring opportunities but Australia took theirs.
I'm sure you have watched Wales play in the recent past and would be aware that we do not normally make so many basic errors.

No they didn't. They messed up several opportunities, including the one on the left wing when it should have been a walk-in. Plenty of basic errors by Aus too. It's not all about Wales, you know.

As I said there's a certain presumptiousness (arrogance? surely not!) that all Wales need to do is improve in a few areas and cut out errors and they'll win. It could easily have been all over by half time.

Re. Wales not making basic errors. It wasn't all unforced. You're playing Aus in Australia and they were smarting from defeat.

Australia are beatable. I'm just not convinced that Wales (or another NH side) can do it at the moment.

Didn't Scotland beat them?

slartibartfast wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:sugarNspikes
Australia were beatable yesterday and you know it, We made several mistakes at key moments that butchered try scoring opportunities but Australia took theirs.
I'm sure you have watched Wales play in the recent past and would be aware that we do not normally make so many basic errors.

No they didn't. They messed up several opportunities, including the one on the left wing when it should have been a walk-in. Plenty of basic errors by Aus too. It's not all about Wales, you know.

As I said there's a certain presumptiousness (arrogance? surely not!) that all Wales need to do is improve in a few areas and cut out errors and they'll win. It could easily have been all over by half time.

Re. Wales not making basic errors. It wasn't all unforced. You're playing Aus in Australia and they were smarting from defeat.

Australia are beatable. I'm just not convinced that Wales (or another NH side) can do it at the moment.

Didn't Scotland beat them?

Hehe now come on slart stop being all picky and bringing truth into the equation

I did say "at the moment"

Not going to get into the Scotland game (well done to them, but to be honest I'd forgotten about it already!), but I think Aus are a different kettle of fish now.

Scotland really didn't do Wales any favours, did they?

sugarNspikes
Are you aware that I'm not criticising Australia I respect your side and think you deserved to be the TN champions.
All I'm saying is that Wales need to cut out the basic errors and by doing that we will stop gifting Australia forward momentum.
There is no need for you to be so defensive just rejoice in the fact you won yesterday.

Cymroglan wrote:sugarNspikes
Are you aware that I'm not criticising Australia I respect your side and think you deserved to be the TN champions.
All I'm saying is that Wales need to cut out the basic errors and by doing that we will stop gifting Australia forward momentum.
There is no need for you to be so defensive just rejoice in the fact you won yesterday.

I'm not Australian.

How stupid of me I should have realised you are Welsh

Cymroglan wrote:How stupid of me I should have realised you are Welsh

Steady on!

TycroesOsprey wrote:Hook didnt get turned over as often, offered a running threat, provided clean breaks and one of our top carriers. Has a bigger boot that Priestland. The one thing RP has which none of our other tens is distribution but yesterday he butchered two try scoring chances. RP is way off his best.

Looking at the stats the Australians kicking game and the turnovers conceded is what killed us. The ozzies did what France, Italy and England all tried to do but failed. Kick long pressurise the welsh runners and force turnovers.

We need to get our kicking game sorted first and for that we need Hook. We also need to improve in the pack and at the breakdown, so Ianto Smiler and possible Ryan to come in as our worst performers from the stats were Davies, Priestland and Faletau. Faletau may deserve a second chance as he normally brings athleticism and power from the base of the scrum. Davies and Priestland dont. BD needed a big game if he was going to keep Ianto out of the squad and he dissapeared. RP needs to find some form.

Give HOok a run against the brumbies and if he goes well take him off after 60 and play him in the second test. tell him its his for the taking before the brumbies match.

Hook also had chance to welly the ball but choose to hold on and give away a penalty towards the end of the game

Is Joubert the ref next week?

maestegmafia wrote:Looking at the Tuesday team I think Charteris has been dropped.

Yeah I think so too although I think its harsh, good defensively tackling well yesterday and secured his ball in the lineout without problems. Whilst I want Ianto in I would have liked to see him start with charts.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Looking at the Tuesday team I think Charteris has been dropped.

Yeah I think so too although I think its harsh, good defensively tackling well yesterday and secured his ball in the lineout without problems. Whilst I want Ianto in I would have liked to see him start with charts.

Charteris was our worst performing lock yesterday, and I though BD did more in the lineout (including turning over Aus once or twice)

Ianto and AWJ to start, BD on the bench

Can't you make the Blues play 1/2p at 10 just to see if it works? Surely he can play there and then you can have Byrne, Cuthbert, North and 1/2p in the same 15.

I know I watced the game wild a mild hangover so I could be wrong but what was the gameplan yesterday. We kicked loosely to their backline and then tried toplay behind the gain line when we did have the ball, there was few big carries around the fringes from the forwards, and when there was there was no support. If this loose kicking was simply to keep the ball in play and tire the Aussies out then come on, really? We're at the end of a very long season and although it might work against the more attritional NH teams can we expect this tactic to work against Aus who have always liked to throw the ball around and play at pace.

Why was there no kicks to the corners and targetting of their line out and I know the Aus scrum isnt as fragile as it used to be but the welsh front five would make a Lions squad, on 6N form at least.

Rant almost over guys and girls but Preistland! Defenders dont even look at him anymore. His kicking out of hand is poor and there seems little threat with ball in hand and IMO has been since the Ireland game in the 6N. Time for Hook ? With Byrne at fullback and 1/2 penny on the wing if orth is injured? I think theres not much choiceseeing Biggar was left at home.

wales606 wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Looking at the Tuesday team I think Charteris has been dropped.

Yeah I think so too although I think its harsh, good defensively tackling well yesterday and secured his ball in the lineout without problems. Whilst I want Ianto in I would have liked to see him start with charts.

Charteris was our worst performing lock yesterday, and I though BD did more in the lineout (including turning over Aus once or twice)

Ianto and AWJ to start, BD on the bench

NOt so.

Davies was turned over three times, lost a ball on his own throw, didnt make any yardage carrying and missed first up tackles. Charteris secured all his own ball in the line and was wales main target with five catches, third top tackler in the team as well. Davies performed way below charteris.

We were completely blasted in that first half and we weren't really in the game that much tbh. We were lucky to be so close at times.

Main points for me:
.The pack need to grow a pair and bring the physicality and intensity next week
Im looking at Adam J, Charteris and the whole back row in particular
.As you've said the kicking game needs to improve but we were under the cosh a lot of the time so didn't have many options. So look at point 1
.The backline needs to stop running into people, instead create space and run at the inside shoulder
.Halfpenny stop tripping over yourself...

Halfpenny would be wasted at 10, just saying.

Maybe if Priestland or Hook looked like better options there

Halfpenny doesn't have the skill set for 10 i don't know why people are suggesting that. He could be a pretty good 13 though, McGeechan wanted to try him there in the Lions tour

With Byrne not in the squad at the moment (maybe even if he was) Halfpenny is head and shoulders our best XV by a country mile so please for the love of god lets leave him there.