The Game Stay the Game: Chavez Jr

Chavez Jr is symbolic of what is wrong with the sport.

1. His opponents are hand picked.
2. He fights in cities where most of the officials surnames are Chavez. Okay, slight exaggeration, but he's fighting on the border where the drugs flow (he got drug related lady friend) and we all know how it goes down in Texas with the judging.
3. He refuses to fight the best, Martinez, and the WBC happily change the laws to assist him.
4. He refuses a post fight drug test (rumored).
5. He weighs way too much come fight night and often doesn't make weight, i think.
6. He wins fights he actually loses. Zbik.
7. Makes millions on hype alone.
8. Thinks he is good.
9. Manipulates the media with his silly "viva Mexico's!"
10. Fights in-house or at best against opponents that Arum has severe options on.
11. Enjoys the gangja (rumored).
12. Has the HBO bum boys right up his peephole. Kellerman with his "I just seen a naked lady!/ I'm coming to touch you!" stare all over him.
13. Fights hags and queens and passes them off as something more than a ten pinter you submit to in a chavy nightclub after a while out of the game.
14. Thinks Martinez fancies him.
15. Sells himself as a die hard warrior when he fought Manfredo last year. Manfredo people. A man who was talking about how he works part-time as a cleaner or something.
16. Dates sixteen-year-old girls. Okay, that one is pure slander.

Thoughts?

Why does JCC get so much stick whilst the other Mexican Muppet fighting at LMW gets a free pass from most here? Arguably Canelo has had an easier route to the title. I mean when did Hatton deserve a LMW title shot?

He is a microcosm for what is wrong in the sport. Lacks talent, integrity, dicipline and may even be a cheat ; but virtue of a famous name and a powerful promoter, has a "world title" and millions of $$$$

Your truth is making me very angry seanus!

Canelo got more respectfor the game and more talent. He is being groomed. Anyone who steps in against Chavez Jr is being screwed. The Hatton thing was wrong though, so wrong. Good point. But this is a Chavez Jr thread, the stinking cheating... calm down David.

Seanusarrilius wrote:He is a microcosm for what is wrong in the sport. Lacks talent, integrity, dicipline and may even be a cheat ; but virtue of a famous name and a powerful promoter, has a "world title" and millions of $$$$

He's a decent fighter in an age of mediocrity. Canelo fits what you wrote perfectly. Maybe its because he's a red haired mexican that is the attraction. He will be carefully matched and will win but his star status will be him undoing. Watch him implode the moment he has his first loss.

This is a great point Azania but this be a Chavez Jr thread!!!

They both make millions. The hacks. Canelo vs Ortiz. Everyone will drool, but at the end of the day it's a 147 fighter (recent) going in against a fatty.

azania wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:He is a microcosm for what is wrong in the sport. Lacks talent, integrity, dicipline and may even be a cheat ; but virtue of a famous name and a powerful promoter, has a "world title" and millions of $$$$

He's a decent fighter in an age of mediocrity. Canelo fits what you wrote perfectly. Maybe its because he's a red haired mexican that is the attraction. He will be carefully matched and will win but his star status will be him undoing. Watch him implode the moment he has his first loss.

Comparing Alvarez and Junior is laughable

Alvarez may be hyped, and to a degree protected but he has nothing on Junior.

Junior has - Been caught using diaretics I beleive in past, and did not even take the urine test last time out.
Junior gets caught dring driving days before major fights
Junior gets ridiculous lopsided score cards in fights staged in Texas to protect him from fairness
Junior has no power despite weighing 185 pounds on fight night, is the easiest man on earth to hit and the HBO commentators just ignore it
Junior avoids Martinez at all costs but is protected by WBC and Top Rank.

Junior, his relationship with HBO, the WBC and TR are what is wrong with boxing.

Alvarez is a solid pro, a decent human being and in time, will fight very tough challenges

He already signed to fight Williams for goodness sake, that was a live fight.

Here here Seanus!

Both hyped. Canelo more so. Both protected. Both gifted world title fights. One had a big joke for a vacant title. One getting praise and the other being scrutinised and justifiably criticised primarily for his links with Arum.

Canelo is much more worthy of the hype. Hes alot younger and been alot more impressive. He quite advanced for a 21 year old.

Chavez on the other hand has looked pretty ordinary at times and so far it seems he has been protected, rather than developed.

He's a world champ. His age is irrelevant. As a world champ he should not be 'developing'. The same applies to JCC.

Everyone knows Martinez is the real Champ. But JCC sells more tickets. Boxing fans know that Saul will never go near Lara so Saul is being sold as this wonder kid with the added attraction of being ginger.

Frankly the sooner these two frauds get exposed the better for boxing. They are not world champs. They are manufactured belt holders.

Well most fight fans can distinguish between a good fighter that holds a title and an ordinary one.

leave him alone for number 11 on the list

manos de piedra wrote:Well most fight fans can distinguish between a good fighter that holds a title and an ordinary one.

Who sells the tickets? JCC or Martinez?

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Well most fight fans can distinguish between a good fighter that holds a title and an ordinary one.

Who sells the tickets? JCC or Martinez?

Thats just a indication of popularity, not neccessarily talent. Do you think most boxing fans worldwide rate Chavez above Martinez?

In Mexico or South California maybe due to partisan reasons. But not overall.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Well most fight fans can distinguish between a good fighter that holds a title and an ordinary one.

Who sells the tickets? JCC or Martinez?

Thats just a indication of popularity, not neccessarily talent. Do you think most boxing fans worldwide rate Chavez above Martinez?

In Mexico or South California maybe due to partisan reasons. But not overall.

Boxing fans know Martinez. Joe Sixpack probably doesn;t but may know JCC coz of his dad. That he holds the WBC belt is also a selling point even though that belt is as good as a Primark belt.

-Chavez has looked awful vs no-bodies, Alvarez has blown them out the water with relative ease

-Chavez DUCKED Martinez, official. Canelo has never ducked anyone, no one has been his mandatory and managed to fight someone else.

- Alvarez won a joke of a title, Chavez should have lost when he won the title, Zbik deserved to beat him

- Chavez has been in trouble with the law, driving etc, Saul has not

- Chavez missed a drugs test after coming in 22lbs higher than the night previously, Saul hasn't ever been in that position

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:-Chavez has looked awful vs no-bodies, Alvarez has blown them out the water with relative ease

-Chavez DUCKED Martinez, official. Canelo has never sucked anyone, no one has been his mandatory and managed to fight someone else.

- Alvarez won a joke of a title, Chavez should have lost when he won the title, Zbik deserved to beat him

- Chavez has been in trouble with the law, driving etc, Saul has not

- Chavez missed a drugs test after coming in 22lbs higher than the night previously, Saul hasn't ever been in that position

[b]

I hope not.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Well most fight fans can distinguish between a good fighter that holds a title and an ordinary one.

Who sells the tickets? JCC or Martinez?

Thats just a indication of popularity, not neccessarily talent. Do you think most boxing fans worldwide rate Chavez above Martinez?

In Mexico or South California maybe due to partisan reasons. But not overall.

Boxing fans know Martinez. Joe Sixpack probably doesn;t but may know JCC coz of his dad. That he holds the WBC belt is also a selling point even though that belt is as good as a Primark belt.

Im refering to real fight fans who can distinguish between good and average fighters. Chavez is probably more popular than Martinez, I wouldnt dispute that. But anyone who rates Chavez as the better fighter thus far (and I actually give him a better chance of beating Martinez than most) cant really follow the sport much.

My intial point was in drawing the distinction between Alvarez and Chavez Jr in any case. Alvarez is younger and more talented which is why he is rated higher. I dont really blame the fighters for the belt system in place today and to be honest I dont attach a whole lot of importance on the ridiculous, ever increasing multi belt universe in any case. Whats the point? World titles dont mean much now so it doesnt overly concern me in who holds them.

I notice on another thread you are hyping Rigondeaux. Yet his last defence of his title was against a guy that wasnt even a top twenty man in the division. As a world champion does this not then fit your description of a protected fraud?

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:-Chavez has looked awful vs no-bodies, Alvarez has blown them out the water with relative ease

-Chavez DUCKED Martinez, official. Canelo has never ducked anyone, no one has been his mandatory and managed to fight someone else.

- Alvarez won a joke of a title, Chavez should have lost when he won the title, Zbik deserved to beat him

- Chavez has been in trouble with the law, driving etc, Saul has not

- Chavez missed a drugs test after coming in 22lbs higher than the night previously, Saul hasn't ever been in that position

I seem to remember hearing he broke Archie Solis' jaw?

Yep, I have been hyping Rigo, but I tamper that somewhat. I did say that although I reckon he would beat Donnaire, I will still rate him below Don because of level of opposition. Plus Rigo has pedigree albeit in the amateurs. He is ready to take on and beat the best now. Saul is neither.

JCC is on par with Saul at the moment. I give him a decent shout of beating Martinez legitimately. Perhaps I;m not too sold on Martinez as others seem to be. He's living of that punch. Both mediocre fighters in an era where they can avoid the best (or in Saul's case keep on developing) until they lose. Lara would beat Saul 11 out of 10 times and probably JCC added to the bill.

Lara would beat both of them.

Chavez Jr would get pancake by Martinez. If he waits another year and Martinez diminishes in skill he might have a shot, but otherwise, not a cats chance.

If he waits 10 years he might beat Martinez, but Martinez would decimate him right now.

Anyone who appreciates Chavez Jr's achievements don't know sh** about boxing. Their ass needs to get fired from the boards. "You heard him!" Sure did, El.

davidemore wrote:Chavez Jr is symbolic of what is wrong with the sport
8. Thinks he is good.
12. Has the HBO bum boys right up his peephole. Kellerman with his "I just seen a naked lady!/ I'm coming to touch you!" stare all over him.
13. Fights hags and queens and passes them off as something more than a ten pinter you submit to in a chavy nightclub after a while out of the game.
14. Thinks Martinez fancies him.

Azania is just being a contrarian again and is once again wrong in this argument.

Canelo looks very raw but being so young is being fairly groomed for p4p stardom and is at least taking on stiff challenges in an over the hill but still game Shane Mosely..

Chavez Jr on the other hand is a heinous hype job that is being fed bums, deliberately being steered clear of Martinez and gets away with cheating because of who his father was. The senior version was also somewhat overrated I'd like to add.

Super Boon be bringing heavy truths to the board!

Comparing those two is like comparing Audley Harrison and Lennox Lewis. One has heart and integrity, the other doesn't, I'll let you decide. But not you, Azania... the painya.

Lol

Super D Boon wrote:Azania is just being a contrarian again and is once again wrong in this argument.

Canelo looks very raw but being so young is being fairly groomed for p4p stardom and is at least taking on stiff challenges in an over the hill but still game Shane Mosely..

Chavez Jr on the other hand is a heinous hype job that is being fed bums, deliberately being steered clear of Martinez and gets away with cheating because of who his father was. The senior version was also somewhat overrated I'd like to add.

Why am I wrong?