Heineken Cup: Draw for next year

First topic message reminder :

The draw will be shown live tomorrow, 12 June, at 11:00 am apparently.

Can see the draw live here:

http://live.ercrugby.com/index.html

gowales wrote:The Chiefs draw will no doubt boost their finances next year

Hopefully, gowales, 3 nailed on capacity crowds drinking their socks off - happy daze!

Re: Heineken Cup draw 12th June
by alyndavies » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:15 am

The "to be confirmed" Italian club will be Parma by the way.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,2588 ... 39,00.html


So ideally well have Toulouse, Leicester and Parma
What a wonderful group that would be for us.

Well 2 weeks ago I asked for Toulouse and Leicester on the Ospreys forum, I'm thrilled we can have a crack at 2 such prestigious teams. I'd of prefered the new Italian team but I'll take Treviso. We owe them for what they did to us in this seasons Heinaken Cup!

The Ospreys don't stand a chance.

HERSH wrote:


Spot the Bath fan amongst all the chiefs.

Well to be honest Ospreys will be dangerous simply because the media and most outsiders have written them off. Given they have beaten Leinster twice away from home in the last 6 months they are more than capable.

Toulouse probably still favourites though. Leicester I would have thought probably are the most unhappy with that draw because I cant see the best runner up coming from this group.

Unlucky Tigers, another season of not getting out of your pool again I think (although pretty understandable this time).

Hold on Yappy we had the 2nd and 3rd teams in last years competition in our group last time out and we still beat both at Welford Rd (less said about the away games the better). A few less injuries and we should be able to make a good go of it, espeically now we've re-inforced the squad and the rest of the AP don't get a six game head start on us.

Pool1- Metro are inconsistent and more interested in the top 14. I dont think edinburgh will able to repeat last years sucess (considering their pro12 position) this group is harder. Saracens will improve next year with ashton coming in and if they can avoid the key injuries from last year(Eg. k brown and J Burger). Munster to edge it from sarries.

Pool2- The pool of death for sure. Treviso are no pushovers but will struggle in this group. Anyone of the others can win the group, im going for leicester, they were hit with a lot of international call ups last year and their early season form suffered badly and they are due a strong showing in the HC. Really it could be any of the 3.

Pool3- Harlequins should see this group as a golden oppotunity for progression. from a Quins perspective if you hand picked the teams the group would look something like this. Biaritz are an awkward, cynical side but quins should top the group.

Pool4- Ulster are favourites here, Northampton the biggest threat to them. Glasgow and castres are threats too but have little history of progression beyond the pool stages. Saints could win this but they have just lacked that extra 10% its up to mallinder to find it. Ulster to top.

Pool5- Leinster have to be favourites, they have certainly had clermonts number in recent years. Scarlets to entertain and the chiefs to suprise a few people but leinster to qualify.

Pool6- I fancy Toulon here. Cardiff seem to have lost a few players and are in a wage structure transition that i think will affect them on the pitch next year. Montpellier are another inconsistent french side that focus more on the top 14. Sale are a bit of an uknown, lots of new players, ground and coaching setup, the premiership may be their focus next year.

Group Winners
Munster
Leicester
Harlequins
Ulster
Leinster
Toulon
Best runners up
Clermont
Northampton

HERSH wrote:The Ospreys don't stand a chance.

They have the best chance of the three Welsh teams though. Scarlets and Blues will be slightly... transitional. Tigers and Toulouse might get more points against Treviso and that will be crucial. The italians are so used to playing Ospreys they are now a lot more competitve when playing them.

In Pool 4, a lot will depend on the draw and sequence of the fixtures. My gut says it will be tight between Ulster and Saints. But, Castres and Glasgow are well capable of upsetting either side along the way. So it could get really interesting.

If you look at Glasgow, they've got to the Pro12 playoffs two out of the last three years by being really hard to beat. And they will take a huge amount of inspiration from Edinburgh this year. They'll be in camp with Edinburgh players this summer hearing all the anecdotes about the Heineken Cup semi and quarter final and that will put a wee bit of a chip on their shoulder, that their rivals have done it and they haven't. I'm very wary of Glasgow and Saints should be too.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Unlucky Tigers, another season of not getting out of your pool again I think (although pretty understandable this time).

Hold on Yappy we had the 2nd and 3rd teams in last years competition in our group last time out and we still beat both at Welford Rd (less said about the away games the better). A few less injuries and we should be able to make a good go of it, espeically now we've re-inforced the squad and the rest of the AP don't get a six game head start on us.

Yea possibly I was stiring with that but honestly i'm not sure if you will make it out of that pool. I think Cockers has to guarantee either the HC or the AP coming home next season so he may just focus on the prem looking at those other sides.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Hoog wrote:Delighted to have ASM again. Trip to France is on the cards thus year!!,

What about a trip to Llanelli!

Oh you, that really put a smile on my face

Quins fan here - not sure you could pick a better group than that! In theory we could stroll to six wins...

Knock on wood, but Quins should qualify from that group. I back us against Biarritz. If we do, I hope we have a hard quarter final so we can improve

Plus hopefully Care will show up Yachvilli

Two very different type of 9's.

Yachvilli more technically gifted, more intelligent and strategic. Care more dynamic, better at sniping and at adding pace and zip. Good battle for sure.

Morgannwg wrote:

HERSH wrote:The Ospreys don't stand a chance.

They have the best chance of the three Welsh teams though. Scarlets and Blues will be slightly... transitional. Tigers and Toulouse might get more points against Treviso and that will be crucial. The italians are so used to playing Ospreys they are now a lot more competitve when playing them.

maybe but Blues have a ridicuously soft group, partly thanks to being over ranked. Gives them a realistic shot at a high scoring runner up.

Big hope for tigers and ospreys is tolouse getting beat early and stop caring. Im still not sure how Tigers an ospreys almost always end up together with anitalian team

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

HERSH wrote:The Ospreys don't stand a chance.

They have the best chance of the three Welsh teams though. Scarlets and Blues will be slightly... transitional. Tigers and Toulouse might get more points against Treviso and that will be crucial. The italians are so used to playing Ospreys they are now a lot more competitve when playing them.

maybe but Blues have a ridicuously soft group, partly thanks to being over ranked. Gives them a realistic shot at a high scoring runner up.

Big hope for tigers and ospreys is tolouse getting beat early and stop caring. Im still not sure how Tigers an ospreys almost always end up together with anitalian team

they might get beat up early but they will not stop caring. they are not Castres or Montpelier. Toulouse have won enough T14 titles to let it go for a season or two. I would fancy more Ospreys than Leicester to beat them as they can outrun them gloucester style. Playing a tight, forward orientated game might only end up in a kicking contest against Toulouse which they usually win.

Predicted Quarter Finalists :-

Sarries
Toulouse
Biarritz
Quins
Saints
Tigers
Clermont
Toulon

Tigers played predominantly a backs based game this season though

Tigers probably more of a backs based game than the Ospreys to be honest. Especially with the backs the Ospreys will be left with next year.

ok fair enough, I stand corrected was basing my judgement on the Pro12 and Ap finals (and the HC cup games of leicester). thought ospreys backs had pace and were quite creative (really liked their centre Beck) while tigers mainly tried to get advantage through their forwards.

really happy with our () draw. Tough as an intro to Heini rugby but at least where in the competition, which was always a bonus in year 2 of the Prem. Here's Rob Baxters thoughts Baxter reacts to Cup draw

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Predicted Quarter Finalists :-

Sarries
Toulouse
Biarritz
Quins
Saints
Tigers
Clermont
Toulon

Wow, some anglo-french tinted specs there - four English and four French teams. Sure Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Ospreys needn't bother turning up.

brennomac wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Predicted Quarter Finalists :-

Sarries
Toulouse
Biarritz
Quins
Saints
Tigers
Clermont
Toulon

Wow, some anglo-french tinted specs there - four English and four French teams. Sure Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Ospreys needn't bother turning up.

Brenno, think BigTrev was talking about the Anglo-French Cup in season 2014/15

I'd fancy

Sarries (but really can't decide on this group)
Toulouse
Quins
Ulster
Leinster
Toulon (if they treat it seriously)

as the group winners

Connaught (I fancy them to upset Biarritz)
Clermont

as the second places

I think Cockers has to guarantee either the HC or the AP coming home next season so he may just focus on the prem looking at those other sides.

Well Yappy, Tigers were a touch unfortunate to finish just 2nd this season (they were so close to catching Quins) and I think Cockers will look at that and at the LV Cup run and will carefully evaluate the fixture list. There may well be some more rotation as Tigers can afford to lose a small number of games and the games before the European windows may the ones risked. Cockers has done it once before, he sent a second team to Sarries ahead of the European games a couple of years back and that second team came home with a tbp and a lbp. Particularly targeting either easier home games or away games they are unlikely to win and brining out the younger players in those games. Hopefully the injury to Flood in the pointless game against Bath at the end of the season will make him consider Flood's glass like qualities and give a timely reminder that the best attacking 10 in England needs looking after.

Tigers probably more of a backs based game than the Ospreys to be honest. Especially with the backs the Ospreys will be left with next year.

gowales, they certainly will be looking to move it through the backs as there's been some serious reinforcement in that area. What forwards are the Ospreys going to be left with ahead of next season? You didn't fare to well against the Sarries forwards which is giving the Tigers fans a bit of optimism.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Tigers probably more of a backs based game than the Ospreys to be honest. Especially with the backs the Ospreys will be left with next year.

gowales, they certainly will be looking to move it through the backs as there's been some serious reinforcement in that area. What forwards are the Ospreys going to be left with ahead of next season? You didn't fare to well against the Sarries forwards which is giving the Tigers fans a bit of optimism.

The O's will still be left with the first choice pack minus Paul James, who is a destructive scrummager and will probably take a bit of sting out of our scrum. But we still play a forward orientated style of play and have done since Lyn Jones left and especially when we lost Phillips, Just Marshall, Hook, Henson, Byrne etc... True that we didn't fare well against the Sarries and that's what i'm worried about but there were some very strange selection choice for the first game in particular with two of our back row playing at lock!

Front 8 will look like
1.Bevington/Duncan Jones
2.Hibbard
3.A Jones
4.AWJ (should be captain)
5.Evans
6.Ryan J/James King
7. Tipuric
8.Bearman/Ryan Jones/ Jonathan Thomas

Which is still an international quality pack for the most part

I don't think we'll get out of this pool next year to be honest. As i said somewhere else i kind of think think the Ospreys have a 5 year plan and we're entering year 3, we need to build our finances and squad up first if we want to challenge for Europe. We need to develop our style of play because at the moment it's basically been stripped and it's very basic, we'll need more than that against Toulouse, Leinster etc...

It'll be interesting to see how it goes up front then as Tigers pack is pretty much all international as well. The return of Louis Deacon and Jordan Crane are being noted as particularly key as we were simply out muscled without them at times last season (the injuries to Slater didn't help either). The Southern Hemisphere International Tournament is hitting us with the loss of Marcos Ayerza for the first chunk of the season, made worse by Argentina's involvement in the AIs so if the Ospreys play Tigers in the first round of games expect Adam Jones to be up against Logo Mulipolo a 20 stone mountain from Samoa who is a good scrummager but not technically brilliant (he is only 24 and was largely semi pro before signing for Tigers).

Expect something like:

1.Ayerza/Mulipolo
2.Chuter/Youngs
3.Cole/Castro
4.Deacon
5.Parling
6.Croft/Mafi (depending on how Croft recovers from his neck injury)
7.Salvi
8.Crane

Hoog wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Hoog wrote:Delighted to have ASM again. Trip to France is on the cards thus year!!,

What about a trip to Llanelli!

Oh you, that really put a smile on my face

I aim to please!

As a Saracens fan I am pleased with our group. Not easy of course but avoiding Leinster and Clermont is a relief. Tough pool but we are good enough to top it.

Revenge will certainly be on the cards for the Racing Metro and Munster games.

Hopefully no more cheers for Sireli Bobo.

Well, I am very glad people on here are writing off the Ospreys already. This is the most improved Ospreys side I have seen in a very, very long time, the pack even without Paul James in it is still formidable, Bevington is very destructive in the loose and he is not a bad scrummager either, also if anyone watched the Wales V Baa Baa's game they would have seen that good old Duncan Jones can still do the business as well. The young backs will have had last season to know what it is all about and the way that Webb and Beck are performing down under along with the way Eli Walker, Ross Jones and Habberfield are performing in the U20 world cup I think they might surprise a few people, remember that this is the side that tooled Munster at the Liberty and beat Leinster at the show grounds. If people were to ask me about the forwards I would say that the Ospreys have the best pack in that group in my opinion, I think that the Ospreys will top this group and qualify, they should not fear anyone especially after winning the Rabbo in the manner in which they done it. You here'd it here first.

LordDowlais wrote:they should not fear anyone especially after winning the Rabbo in the manner in which they done it. You here'd it here first.

By cheating at the scrum and getting two Leinster players yellow carded, so they played with 14 men for 20 minutes in the heat a week after a HC final?

Feckless Rogue wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:they should not fear anyone especially after winning the Rabbo in the manner in which they done it. You here'd it here first.

By cheating at the scrum and getting two Leinster players yellow carded, so they played with 14 men for 20 minutes in the heat a week after a HC final?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Hoog wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Hoog wrote:Delighted to have ASM again. Trip to France is on the cards thus year!!,

What about a trip to Llanelli!

Oh you, that really put a smile on my face

I aim to please!

Good man, although I will probably drag myself down for that game, even though after my visit last season I promised myself is never go back

Hoog wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Hoog wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Hoog wrote:Delighted to have ASM again. Trip to France is on the cards thus year!!,

What about a trip to Llanelli!

Oh you, that really put a smile on my face

I aim to please!

Good man, although I will probably drag myself down for that game, even though after my visit last season I promised myself is never go back

I understand what you mean - too much of a good thing can make you ill