Ulster squad additions

First topic message reminder :

Trimble has started following Jacques Botes on Twitter if that means anything...?
#Geoffisbetterthantwitter

clivemcl wrote:I dont know exactly what it is with Ulster, maybe its reality, maybe its just a negative mentality about ourselves. But I look at JJ Hanrahan play in the U20s and I imagine if all of a sudden Munster where left with no-one but him they would make it work and they would still be a very good side.

(You maybe disagree but i'll assume you agree for now) So, what is it then, is Jackson actually not as good as the likes of Hanrahan, or are we just pessimists? Or have we (till now) not had enough coaching quality to really maximise the output of the young prospects bar Gilroy?

Ah well, Hartley will do then!

clivemcl wrote:Ah well, Hartley will do then!

Are you telling me Ashton and Hartley are actually different people? Away with you man, they are one man, one clone.

Pete330v2 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Ah well, Hartley will do then!

Are you telling me Ashton and Hartley are actually different people? Away with you man, they are one man, one clone.

I have sneaky feeling that Hartley isn't going to like Ravers much.....

rodders wrote:I have sneaky feeling that Hartley isn't going to like Ravers much.....

I do believe you may just be right there. He'll be wound up further than he's ever been

Pete330v2 wrote:

rodders wrote:I have sneaky feeling that Hartley isn't going to like Ravers much.....

I do believe you may just be right there. He'll be wound up further than he's ever been

Pity Pedrie wont be around to get reacquinted with him

Well Pedrie will be coming back to Ravenhill then all be it in Castre colours.

Hopefully not to wreck havoc this time though...

He will mate. With his new team, Castres. And he'll back at Ravenhill too!

Pedie! Pedrie!!!

I forgot it was Castres that he was pitching up but I was thinking more for Ulster

Yer man on radio ulster sport came on

"Big big news for Ulster Rugby and in coming coach Anscombe..."

Followed by the HEC draw announcement which has allready been mention 3 times in an hour on Radio Ulster.

I thought it was going to be a signing announcement

clivemcl wrote:

Also, where did Cusack end up going? Or has he left professional rugby? Any Munster fans think he is better than NOC?

Think he was making his way to England. I think NOC would be a better option than Cusack.

marty2086 wrote:

If Keatley is 3rd in line at 10 all Munster need is him or ROG to pickup a injury that could leave Hanrahan and Jackson both as the starting 10s for their provinces thats risky for the long term future of Irish Rugby

Hanrahan would be 4th choice at the moment behind Scott Deasy (starting OH for B+I Cup - he was the OH for the Uls v Mun QF).

Its someone like him (or a Paul Warwick type player) that would be useful for Ulster (he can cover a few positions).

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:I dont know exactly what it is with Ulster, maybe its reality, maybe its just a negative mentality about ourselves. But I look at JJ Hanrahan play in the U20s and I imagine if all of a sudden Munster where left with no-one but him they would make it work and they would still be a very good side.

(You maybe disagree but i'll assume you agree for now) So, what is it then, is Jackson actually not as good as the likes of Hanrahan, or are we just pessimists? Or have we (till now) not had enough coaching quality to really maximise the output of the young prospects bar Gilroy?

Nail On Head Clive!

Fixed that for you Sin é!

Sin é wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

If Keatley is 3rd in line at 10 all Munster need is him or ROG to pickup a injury that could leave Hanrahan and Jackson both as the starting 10s for their provinces thats risky for the long term future of Irish Rugby

Hanrahan would be 4th choice is wasted at the moment behind Scott Deasy (starting OH for B+I Cup - he was the OH for the Uls v Mun QF). Whilst IRFU force Ulster to take a distinctly average player and start a 20yr old as first choice!

Sin é wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

If Keatley is 3rd in line at 10 all Munster need is him or ROG to pickup a injury that could leave Hanrahan and Jackson both as the starting 10s for their provinces thats risky for the long term future of Irish Rugby

Hanrahan would be 4th choice at the moment behind Scott Deasy (starting OH for B+I Cup - he was the OH for the Uls v Mun QF).

Its someone like him (or a Paul Warwick type player) that would be useful for Ulster (he can cover a few positions).

Jeez wouldn't we all like to have a Paul Warwick in our squad.

Sin é wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

If Keatley is 3rd in line at 10 all Munster need is him or ROG to pickup a injury that could leave Hanrahan and Jackson both as the starting 10s for their provinces thats risky for the long term future of Irish Rugby

Hanrahan would be 4th choice at the moment behind Scott Deasy (starting OH for B+I Cup - he was the OH for the Uls v Mun QF).

Its someone like him (or a Paul Warwick type player) that would be useful for Ulster (he can cover a few positions).

So what becomes of Hanrahan then? Will he be gradually built up to become the first choice? Whereas Jacksons thrown to the wolves?

On the Heineken Cup draw lads how does everyone feel about it? I for one am absolutely delighted with the draw. It is not an easy group for sure, Northampton and Castres away will be difficult and Glasgow had a good Rabo campaign last season. That said there is a real opportunity for us to top that group. Leinster are in a very difficult group, and group 2 is a nightmare. At least one quality side will miss out, and if teams take points off each other you might not see a second qualifier from that one. As for Connaught I hope they can build on last season. At home you would back them to win two matches, and I think they can perhaps win two away. Being 100% honest I don't see Munster getting through their group, but need to see who they recruit before the start of the season.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:On the Heineken Cup draw lads how does everyone feel about it? I for one am absolutely delighted with the draw. It is not an easy group for sure, Northampton and Castres away will be difficult and Glasgow had a good Rabo campaign last season. That said there is a real opportunity for us to top that group. Leinster are in a very difficult group, and group 2 is a nightmare. At least one quality side will miss out, and if teams take points off each other you might not see a second qualifier from that one. As for Connaught I hope they can build on last season. At home you would back them to win two matches, and I think they can perhaps win two away. Being 100% honest I don't see Munster getting through their group, but need to see who they recruit before the start of the season.

It's a tough group alright but Northampton and Castres are both beatable at both home and away fixtures if we're on top form with a little momentum and luck of course. Glasgow are a big lump to climb too but I do believe our HC 1st XV will be too strong for the Scottish side. On saying that we could also end up 3rd or bottom so I'll count no chickens until they have won a few pool games All in all a pleasing draw though and I'll be looking forward to the Saints coming to Ravers.

Hanrahan should get game time as a 12 for Munster IMO. He has to be 2nd choice at 12 behind Downey, no?

Btw, Nelson is having a tidy game in the U20s match! He is playing 13.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hanrahan should get game time as a 12 for Munster IMO. He has to be 2nd choice at 12 behind Downey, no?

Btw, Nelson is having a tidy game in the U20s match! He is playing 13.

If hes 4th choice at 10 then game time at 12 would help him develop but at u20 level hes looked a bit better than Jackson did in the u20 6N in terms of his reading the game

Nelson having a great game. Commentators bigging him up loads.

He looks good at 13. I wonder where he will be best? Or where how far he will even get in the Ulster setup. He is a very intelligent player.

Nelson is seriously talented, but hasn't looked super comfortable at fullback in this tournament. I wonder where he'll end up? I feel like he is being tried at 15 as thats what Ulster need and he has a good kicking game and appreciation of space. But he's looked uncomfortable not getting to touch the ball for long periods at fullback yet he looks a lovely player when he comes into the line. He could just as easily play 10, 12 or 13 imo.

He likes to kick an awful lot. Part of me thinks he would make a very good 10. He would need to bulk up a bit for centre.

At 15 he isn't involved enough really, but that can be corrected. Where has he played most so far in his career?

Notch wrote:Nelson is seriously talented, but hasn't looked super comfortable at fullback in this tournament. I wonder where he'll end up? I feel like he is being tried at 15 as thats what Ulster need and he has a good kicking game and appreciation of space. But he's looked uncomfortable not getting to touch the ball for long periods at fullback yet he looks a lovely player when he comes into the line. He could just as easily play 10, 12 or 13 imo.

Have to totally disagree. In both the games I watched he was calm and assured at full back. In the England game there were a couple of poorer kicks but that was more down to the conditions which we all know were atrocious.

Would you agree he needs to involve himself more from 15, Rava?

Fair enough Rava. I'm just thinking he lost a few aerial challenges and put the odd boot out on the full. But I'm maybe not giving enough thought to his inexperience or the conditions. However, I do think the more he got his hands on the ball the more settled he was. Hence why I think he could be effective at centre. I do believe he should be developed as a 15 though.

Rory, with the conditions and the gameplan Ireland needed to play against the Boks and England it's not easy for the 15 to get a lot of touches of the ball in an attacking sense. We were playing quite a conservatively. I felt he could have been more prominent on counter-attack but he took the much smarter option of kicking, also part of the gameplan I would say.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Would you agree he needs to involve himself more from 15, Rava?

I'll agree with Notch here that the opposition and conditions probably dictated his involvement but there were a few times particularly against SA where he looked to get forward.

On whether or not he could play centre? Difficult to say. I haven't been fortunate to see today's game so cannot comment. Is he a bit small/slight of build?
I would prefer to see some skill improvement from Farrell. At 6'5" he is more the type of centre we should be developing.

Yeah he is pretty skinny, but he is tallish at 6 foot. I'm not so sure about Farrell at this point to be honest. He looks a bit sluggish.

Farrell showed some really nice skills when he played Ulster versus Leinster at the RDS this past season at 12. He had a good range of passing. I think that was a particularly strong game from him and he's not always going to be consistent this early in his career but I was impressed with him then; the potential is there.

Nelson outplayed Hanrahan when he played 12 in the Ulster Munster u20. He also must be the only 18 year old to have lined out for Ulster without having played in a junior side. He does take place kicks but is not as assured as Jackson, still he plays with his head up which is the main thing to look for at u20 level.

I only saw the second half of the U20s match but Nelson looked very good. Great to see the kicks out on the full against England didn't seem to dent his confidence. But he did kick an awful lot. Well like, but a lot.

Did anyone else feel sorry for the Italian FB?

The poor lad couldn't put a foot right.

From the BBC website.

Heineken Cup format 'unfair' - Northampton Saints' Allan Robson

Northampton Saints chief executive Allan Robson says the current format of the Heineken Cup is not fair.
The governing body of England's top rugby union clubs has given notice of its intention to pull out of the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup.
Robson told BBC Northampton: "If you look at English and French sides, we've got strong Premiership competitions.
"The RaboDirect Pro12 is arguably less strong and every club qualifies. That doesn't appear to be very fair."
"What's more, if you were to look at what happens in the RaboDirect Pro12 competition and analyse the players that teams put out, the squads are able to rotate and take breaks in that competition, to some degree," added Robson.
"Teams can rest key players, so for a Heineken Cup match they draft in stronger players and they're fresh. They've largely played less than the English players so it makes it a tougher competition for us.
"We can look at the qualification process, the format of the competition - and not just for the Heineken Cup, [but] the Amlin Cup too.
"Ourselves and the French have served notice that we want to come out of the competition in its current format and we would like to start discussing the format of a different competition. But, ostensibly, it's the Heineken Cup and top European sides."
Saints are aiming to reach the Heineken Cup quarter finals for a third time in four years in 2012-13.
Northampton, the 2011 finalists, have been drawn in Pool Four against last season's finalists Ulster, Glasgow Warriors and Castres Olympique.
Ulster could field former Saints Number 8 Roger Wilson, while Saints have not faced Glasgow since 2005. It is the third successive season that Castres and Saints have been drawn in the same pool.
"I don't think there are any easy pools, but there could be a worse pool for us there," said Robson.
"We're going to fancy our chances against anyone on a home and away basis. We think we've got the ability to get a home quarter-final."

... so it's unfair that the PRO12 teams can rest players but he's still going to win the group and get a home QF! I don't know why but for some reason the words disrespect, arrogance and hypocrisy spring to mind.

"I don't think there are any easy pools, but there could be a worse pool for us there," said Robson.
"We're going to fancy our chances against anyone on a home and away basis. We think we've got the ability to get a home quarter-final."

What do you expect him to say lads? If that last bit came out of David Humphreys mouth we'd be nodding along sagely. And indeed Humph Snr. made comments along very similar lines after the draw. Leicester Tigers talked about coming to Ravenhill and getting the performance and win they needed in the lead up to Round 5 in our pool this year. Remind me how that went again

His trying to dress up the English clubs greedy cash grab as a moral crusade against the perfidious Celts with their manipulative regard for the long and short term welfare of their players is what sticks in my throat.

Is Geoff seriously gone? Do you think he's jst taking a break and will be back soon?

I can't help but think that if NOC, Herring and Botes were signed and sealed, there would be no reason not to announce it. Makes me think the Botes deal is not yet in stone.

Also, Is Anscombe not meant to have been here by now? Surely if he has arrived there would have been some press attention of it.

Did the Anscombe text message saga blow over?

Did Nick Williams really fail a medical?

"His trying to dress up the English clubs greedy cash grab as a moral crusade against the perfidious Celts with their manipulative regard for the long and short term welfare of their players is what sticks in my throat."

I tried reading that out loud and it stuck in mine as well Notch

clive

I don't have the answers to any of those questions

Pete- I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or taking the pish out of me! Either way, I like it

I'll try tweeting them!

I was both agreeing with you and taking the pish Notch, it was just a very long sentence with a lot of tongue-work involved

I do have concerns over Anscombe's lack of appearance yet in regards to the textgate affair. I wonder if Ulster rugby, who are willing to get rid of a player for having a wee in a taxi, would be willing to tell Anscombe that his behaviour was also not in keeping with the 'Ulster Way' and in breach of the 'Ulster Way' contract.
There is nothing in this of course, it's just my mind working overtime due to a lot of coffee having been imbibed.

clivemcl wrote:Is Geoff seriously gone?

Who?

We'll never forget you Jeff.

Well you've already forgotten how to spell his name Aukster

stag, remember when I tipped Geoff off to your WUM and you didn't know why? This is generally why. I didn't think he would react well to his insider status being mocked. I'll miss him if he isn't going to come back. I don't blame you or Asbo for it though, forums aren't for everybody. There's a certain amount of heatedness that can come into online debates sometimes and also a certain amount of trollling that goes on. That's par for the course. I enjoy it a lot, as can be seen by my post count. Poor Geoff just wanted to chat rugby. Also he did have double standards a bit talking about Exeter in a way he'd get annoyed about if it was Asbo talking like that about Ulster. Asbo had a fair point there.

Even so, geoff- if you're lurking here we'd welcome you back. Otherwise, Stand Up For the Ulstermen and enjoy the season ahead.

To be honest, without good information being available, this site dramatically falls in terms of my desire to be here. Geoff is the most reliable and most consistent flow of information about Ulster. Without him here, I think you will see less of me!

(Dont celebrate just yet though!)

Geoff is the only reason I come online here too. Most of what remains is sanctimonious, self-promoting, flexing of 'rugby knowledge' by people who I'd love to know if they play as good a game as they talk...

Geoff clearly had good contacts, good rugby knowledge and real-life relationships with people worth knowing, and I think this sat uncomfortably with others who wanted to be man sausage-of-the-walk on this forum.

I miss Geoff.

BelfastNI wrote:Geoff is the only reason I come online here too. Most of what remains is sanctimonious, self-promoting, flexing of 'rugby knowledge' by people who I'd love to know if they play as good a game as they talk...

Geoff clearly had good contacts, good rugby knowledge and real-life relationships with people worth knowing, and I think this sat uncomfortably with others who wanted to be man sausage-of-the-walk on this forum.

I miss Geoff.

A contact at Ulster Rugby told me Geoff will be back - they need him to leak selected information.