SA Barbs Vs England

by nobbled Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Comments?

by fa0019 Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:26 pm

formerly known as Sam

SA did have Earl Rose playing that day at 15 however... thats a certain 20 points for the opposition at the very least. Given Leicester won by 5 that day can we assume without Rose SA would have won by 15??? Wink

by HQ matt Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:29 pm

Was disappointed with englands defence today. SA BAbas had great continuity with few errrors ball in hand, they managed to stretch englands defence which was not robust enough.

England lineout was awful, they kept turning over the ball.

They did play well in attack though, despite his defence, wade is an exciting winger going forward. Care was excellant and I would have him as my starting 9 in the tests. Waldrom was good and tom youngs (apart from his throwing) was superb when he came on, i was very impressed with him.

by yappysnap Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:41 pm

Would Tom Young link better with his Leicester compatriots Cole and Parling in the lineout? Especially as Parling leads the lineout so I assume will use similar calls to Leicester as that's what he's familiar with. Tbh I just don't wat to see Mears on the bench.

So we could see Care in the Test side too and perhaps Allen. On that note were the SA centres big and did they test his defence at all?

by HERSH Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:51 pm

Fantastic win today, these boys are starting to gel.

by Morgannwg Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:54 pm

HERSH wrote:Fantastic win today, these boys are starting to gel.

Fantastic? It was against a cobbled together team of Vodacom Cup players. Should have been a similar scoreline to yesterdays Wales/Samoa U20 game. I still think England should be aiming for a series win in SA, but HERSH is happy with 3 defeats as he highlighted in an article (now removed) earler on.

by johnpartle Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:55 pm

Aside from Care making the bench of the test side I don't think anyone else did much worthy of playing at the weekend.

Not sure why people thought so much of Allen's performance, he did nothing of note for most of the game, a couple of decent passes later on, but not facilitating that try at the end was criminal, and probably should have gone down on that ball and scored himself a little before that.

by HQ matt Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:56 pm

fantastic win is ott, do i detect i note of irony there?

by formerly known as Sam Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:57 pm

I doubt they'd use similar calls Yappy, the Tigers lineout manual is supposed to be the size of a phone book. Cockerill likes it precise and complicated. Skivington admitted it took him months to learn it. I'd imagine they'd use something quick an easy or have a standard England call book.

I would like to see Tom Youngs on the bench for the second test for two reasons:
1) he's the most SA style hooker in the squad, in that he's stocky, mobile and extremely aggressive. He'd also provide some more umph in the scrum than Mears, the only concern is the throwing in which is simply not international standard. Would that matter though, if he comes on it's because we're chasing the game and need him in the loose?
2) it's Meyer who told Tom Youngs he had no future as an inside centre (despite England under 20 representation) but could make it as an international hooker if he put his mind to it. I'd love to see Meyer's reaction particularly as he's already talked fondly about his short time at Tigers and meeting up with some of the Tigers players he coached.

by Liam Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:57 pm

HERSH wrote:Fantastic win today, these boys are starting to gel.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by HQ matt Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:59 pm

yes care is the only one who put his hand up for promotion to the test 22.

by Cumbrian Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:09 pm

Just watching the match on SKY Plus and one of the first things I am struck by is what an absolute bell end Kaplan is...

by Armchairexpert Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:20 pm

HQ matt wrote:yes care is the only one who put his hand up for promotion to the test 22.

Not Waldron? I did a lot more than Morgan on Saturday, OK opposition was totally different so he would never make the same yardage in a test but his work rate was in a different league.

I thought Haskell would probably be getting a bench spot on Saturday but I don't think he will trouble the selectors on that showing

by munkian Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:20 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Just watching the match on SKY Plus and one of the first things I am struck by is what an absolute bell end Kaplan is...

You've just realised this ? Very Happy

by yappysnap Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Just watching the match on SKY Plus and one of the first things I am struck by is what an absolute bell end Kaplan is...

Often thought he has zero feel for the game. Just loves to strut around and whistle as much as possible.

by yappysnap Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Armchairexpert wrote:
HQ matt wrote:yes care is the only one who put his hand up for promotion to the test 22.

Not Waldron? I did a lot more than Morgan on Saturday, OK opposition was totally different so he would never make the same yardage in a test but his work rate was in a different league.

I thought Haskell would probably be getting a bench spot on Saturday but I don't think he will trouble the selectors on that showing

How about Waldrom on the bench? He would probably be very good as an impact player, infact he used to be at his best for Tigers when he came on for Crane when players had tired. Also Robshaw covers 6/7 and Johnson covers 6/7.

by jeffwinger Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:40 pm

Waldrom would provide good impact based on today's showing, but having him on the bench wouldn't allow for enough positional cover, assuming Morgan starts at 8. If one of the flankers were injured you're stuck with Waldrom at 6 which isn't ideal.

Agree with everyone saying Care deserves at least a bench spot. He probably deserves to start on merit, but after 80 minutes today that would be asking too much. Great impact sub though, and full of confidence.

Allen was also good, I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 21 if SL opts for both Flood and Farrell in the XV. And he'd deserve it. I think to say he butchered the 3 on 2 is a bit unfair because the defenders seemed to have put themselves nicely between him and his support runners. He could have done more with it though. Usually he is a very unselfish player so I wouldn't use that example as any sort of general negative about him.

Haskell was disappointing, thought he'd at least claim the bench spot but didn't look very impressive. To be fair he could be knackered after almost 2 solid years of rugby all over the world. I'd still be tempted to have him on the bench over Dowson for the potential impact, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if he wasn't there.

by timhen Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:10 pm

Waldrom did a pretty good job against the Barbarians but not sure how much that is a suitable indicator for him to make the bench. It wouldn't be a problem for him to play at 6 if need be though, he's played it a lot for Tigers and before he arrived over here. The pressing thing is that we need someone to do a good job at covering 8 as given his general & recent fitness and that the game is at altitude it's more of a certainty that Morgan won't be particularly effective beyond halftime.

Don't agree about Allen, the c*ck up for the potential try was a big one, and it took him far too long to get into the game, his contributions were few and far between for the majority of the match. The best centre in that game was out of position on the wing and went off injured.

by jeffwinger Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:16 pm

timhen wrote:The best centre in that game was out of position on the wing and went off injured.

This is true, but given the injury I assume he wont be in contention for Saturday. After Lowe, Allen was definitely the next best centre so could challenge for a bench spot if we start with both 10s on the pitch.

by majesticimperialman Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:34 pm

The score line may be impressive but the England game itself, well that was not very impressive at all to be honest.

Care and Waldrom, was very good today looking forward to seeing atleast 1 of them on the bench in saturdays test.

Alot more work to be done in the attack, is Catt the best man for the job?

I know it s early days for this England team, but they do need to be clinical in the way the play.

by Cumbrian Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:36 pm

Just about finished watching, I thought Kitchener had a fairly decent game. He seems to be developing in a good hybrid line-out/ bruiser style lock.

I didn't think Wade's defence was all THAT bad. He did look a bit vulnerable at times, but it doesn't look like anything that can't be sorted out. Needs to work on his decision making/ positioning more than anything, but that will come with experience.

by HERSH Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:41 pm

Morgannwg wrote:
HERSH wrote:Fantastic win today, these boys are starting to gel.

Fantastic? It was against a cobbled together team of Vodacom Cup players. Should have been a similar scoreline to yesterdays Wales/Samoa U20 game. I still think England should be aiming for a series win in SA, but HERSH is happy with 3 defeats as he highlighted in an article (now removed) earler on.

Whats that on your shoulder Morgan?

Do you watch or know anything about rugby at all?

For any NH team to go to SA and win a series is one of the hardest things to do in the game, I guess you are aware of the British and Irish Lions?

Then again you're probably not, is that a band and a wagon I can see?

by Morgannwg Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:23 pm

HERSH it's obvious you have been a Bath fan too long, evident by the fact you settle for mediocrity. Thankfully for England, their rugby players do not share your defeatist attitude.

England: targetting series win.
HERSH: targetting 3 tight losses (or moral victories).

Go figure.

by gregortree Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:01 pm

Morgan, you took his bait. Personally I smile at Hersh's tongue in cheek style, really enjoy it in fact, but posters take him too seriously sometimes. Didn't see today's game, but it looks from commentary that we should not take this dirt track game too seriously either. The real Boks are a major challenge to England in this series. I'll be glad if we learn something and improve, but tbh that is the limit of my expectations for this new England in this tough series. We have some improving to do after test 1.

by HERSH Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:04 pm

Morgan is still learning. picard

Thanks Gregortree

by Morgannwg Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:23 pm

Zzzzzzzzzz!

by DaveM Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:42 am

That was a bit disappointing. I thought Lowe looked good and hopefully he hasn't injured himself too badly. One other thing I'll highlight is JTH's decision to throw the long loop pass when there was an overlap which just had to be allowed to play out - unbelievably inept. It is so, so disappointing that anyone can get near England representation the centres and make a decision like that (although of course there are other examples).

What was going on with the breakdown? The different in interpretation was scary. The Barbarians were sealing off all the time, making it impossible for England to challenge for the ball in many cases, and when they did challenge they were penalised for (in my view the much more minor offence) of putting hands on the floor in front of the ball before scooping it up on the way back. By the last 20 minutes England had been stopped from competing at the breakdown by that combination of interpretations.

By all means have a very strict interpreation of not touching the ground beyond the ball, but if you are going to do that don't continually allow 4 players to throw themselves to the ground to prevent a contest.

If the Test is refereed like that on Saturday England will go down by 50 points.

by HQ matt Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:00 am

the tests will not be refereed like that, kaplan wont be referee in tests with sa involved. he is my least favourite high profile ref.

by yappysnap Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:20 am

Any one got any news on Lowe's injury? Gutted if he's out especially as that's another Quins boy down!

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:49 am

Morgannwg wrote:Zzzzzzzzzz!

OWNED!

by gregortree Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:07 am

Hersh, I was alway was an England fan through thick & thin since the 70s'.
And you do realise I am a Glaws man these days. But I always had a soft spot for Bath since I moved to W Country. And for Quins (as a Londoner)..
So you make us all laugh Laugh

Hersh. And you hypnotised Morgan according to his noises. Shocked

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:17 am

Morgan is nothing without his friend Pierre!

Those two yesterday in the thread that got unfairly removed where like a homoerotic Mexican wrestling tag team. Sad to see that Pierre committed 606v2 suicide, he had potential but unfortunately he had a foul tongue.

Sorry to hear you’re a Glaws fan, but I guess someone has to be thumbsup

by rhonddasmackhead Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:49 am

HERSH wrote:
Morgan is nothing without his friend Pierre!

Those two yesterday in the thread that got unfairly removed where like a homoerotic Mexican wrestling tag team. Sad to see that Pierre committed 606v2 suicide, he had potential but unfortunately he had a foul tongue.

Sorry to hear you’re a Glaws fan, but I guess someone has to be

Potential is something you can only aspire to develop HERSH.

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Hi Pierre

Back again I see. picard

by rhonddasmackhead Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:17 pm

HERSH wrote:Hi Pierre

Back again I see.

Who is Pierre? Have I missed something?

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:33 pm

I take it you've changed your IP address?

As the mods might take a dim view on someone having multiple accounts.

Fingers Crossed

by rhonddasmackhead Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:41 pm

HERSH wrote:I take it you've changed your IP address?

As the mods might take a dim view on someone having multiple accounts.

What's an IP address? I think you have me mistaken for somebody else.

by gregortree Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:31 pm

Pierre was Morgan

by Triangulation Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:31 pm

what happened to the thread "England XV for second test"

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:34 pm

gregortree wrote:Pierre was Morgan

Pierre was WesternOsprey/Idris/WelliamWibb. etc etc

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:35 pm

Triangulation wrote:what happened to the thread "England XV for second test"

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It's up in the stickies/announcements area - merged into the live match thread

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:59 pm

Kiwireddevil wrote:
gregortree wrote:Pierre was Morgan

Pierre was WesternOsprey/Idris/WelliamWibb. etc etc

Was!

from that do I take it they have departed us once again? angel

by rhonddasmackhead Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:11 pm

HERSH wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
gregortree wrote:Pierre was Morgan

Pierre was WesternOsprey/Idris/WelliamWibb. etc etc

Was!

from that do I take it they have departed us once again?

HERSH, why did you private message me a blank message?

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:18 pm

Just to make sure you were alive and kicking

thank god for that! Wink

by Effervescing Elephant Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:19 pm

by rhonddasmackhead Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:27 pm

HERSH wrote:Just to make sure you were alive and kicking

thank god for that!

I'm glad people like you exist.

by HERSH Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:44 pm

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