WTF! Does Howley want us to lose 3-0?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18523240

Ok, we don't know if Ian Evans is injured, or there could be many other excuses, but Howley has so underused the players he took out with him it is rediculous. No Tuperic either - it's a travesty. The guys who don't get picked when they have been outperforming the starters must be gutted.

Warburton is normally a good player, but he has been a shadow of his normal self. I think that a captain should be named when they are out there... the same goes for the Lions (POC was crap out there but he had to be picked as he was capt). Tuperic has been playing far better than Warburton, but because he is capt. he has to be picked - it is a joke really

I'm hoping (1/2 of me anyway) that we get tonked by the Aussies - when our own coach doesn't pick the form players (or take them with him) then it is a road to nowhere!

Let's hope Gatland can have a quiet word with him before next years 6N, or we are going to be thumped.

Thoughts?

Huwball wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18523240

Ok, we don't know if Ian Evans is injured, or there could be many other excuses, but Howley has so underused the players he took out with him it is rediculous. No Tuperic either - it's a travesty. The guys who don't get picked when they have been outperforming the starters must be gutted.

Warburton is normally a good player, but he has been a shadow of his normal self. I think that a captain should be named when they are out there... the same goes for the Lions (POC was crap out there but he had to be picked as he was capt). Tuperic has been playing far better than Warburton, but because he is capt. he has to be picked - it is a joke really

I'm hoping (1/2 of me anyway) that we get tonked by the Aussies - when our own coach doesn't pick the form players (or take them with him) then it is a road to nowhere!

Let's hope Gatland can have a quiet word with him before next years 6N, or we are going to be thumped.

Thoughts?

Don't worry, you don't have to hope, it'll happen of its own accord.

How is the inexperienced Tuperic better than Warburton? This is fickle in the extreme.

Equo

Warburton is only just coming back from injury, whereas Tuperic has just played the European Champions in Dublin and won (as part of a team obviously)... He is currently better than Warburton. I'm not saying Warburton won't get better when his fitness returns, but currently Tuperic is better.

The only thing that confuses me is that the Inform lock Ian Evans missed his honeymoon and hasn't really been used.

I've not heard of any injury being sustained either.

The decision that I struggle to get my head around is Matthew Rees at hooker. His lineout work was dire last weekend, and to be fair it has never really been his strong point. Ken Owens is a good lineout thrower (by welsh stardards especially), yet he has only just made it onto the bench.

That said I assume the theory is that these boys had aus on the ropes last weekend, and hopefully should be able to go one better this time.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The decision that I struggle to get my head around is Matthew Rees at hooker. His lineout work was dire last weekend, and to be fair it has never really been his strong point. Ken Owens is a good lineout thrower (by welsh stardards especially), yet he has only just made it onto the bench.

That said I assume the theory is that these boys had aus on the ropes last weekend, and hopefully should be able to go one better this time.

Yeah, just think if it hadn't have been for that Referree

Equo - Fair play to you for taking time out of baiting your own lot to take the time and hassle to biat us too.

Out of interest are you disagreeing that the welsh team had aus on the ropes? I think the clock was on something like 79:30 and he ball was in their half and we were up on the scoreboard. That is IMO on the ropes. We made mistakes and lost the game. The team should have learnt from their mistakes and be rather keen to prove that to the public.

Do people really think Howley is picking the team and setting the limited tactics played the last two years? With the players we have I believe we have under performed since the RWC even winning the 6N, we got worse as the games went on as teams knew our game plan.

I find it frustrating picking players rusty for game 1 and from that game it was obvious plays were not on form they got selected again and now the coaches have done it again, 3- 0 unless they don't react to poor play again. Anybody know why I Evans is not even on the bench??

glamorganalun wrote:Do people really think Howley is picking the team and setting the limited tactics played the last two years? With the players we have I believe we have under performed since the RWC even winning the 6N, we got worse as the games went on as teams knew our game plan.

I find it frustrating picking players rusty for game 1 and from that game it was obvious plays were not on form they got selected again and now the coaches have done it again, 3- 0 unless they don't react to poor play again. Anybody know why I Evans is not even on the bench??

Don't want to start a fight but is this team underperforming?

You did well in the WC but stil lost to SA AUS and France. I admit they were great games but the tactics don't seam to have changed much since then, maybe at the WC they over performed and that is now expected as the norm.

Don't get me wrong I have set my alarm early so I can watch the game and will be cheering on Wales all the way.

He'll need to make smarter use of his substitutions if he wants to win this game.

Subs that don't make any impact are wasted

Knackeredknees wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Do people really think Howley is picking the team and setting the limited tactics played the last two years? With the players we have I believe we have under performed since the RWC even winning the 6N, we got worse as the games went on as teams knew our game plan.

I find it frustrating picking players rusty for game 1 and from that game it was obvious plays were not on form they got selected again and now the coaches have done it again, 3- 0 unless they don't react to poor play again. Anybody know why I Evans is not even on the bench??

Don't want to start a fight but is this team underperforming?

You did well in the WC but stil lost to SA AUS and France. I admit they were great games but the tactics don't seam to have changed much since then, maybe at the WC they over performed and that is now expected as the norm.

Don't get me wrong I have set my alarm early so I can watch the game and will be cheering on Wales all the way.

Good point, I agree, I have been banging on about the limited tactics for some time as well as the selections of one or two limited players who can't seem to do no wrong. I think the players Wales have are not being used to get the most out of the team, I believe they should beat the depleted Australians.

This question of tactical nowse is something you could apply to any team. Tactics seem to rarely vary for each side. Impose a successfully gameplan and win the game and you have good tactics. Don't and you are one dimensional and poor...!

Glamorganalun - the other thing is I am sure I saw Gatland in the box wiht Howley last weekend, and sure as eggs are eggs he wouldn't have been in there if he wasn't throwing his considerable weight around.

"Do people really think Howley is picking the team and setting the limited tactics played the last two years? " -- I think Howley has picked the team, but the team is following the same tactics used previously. I think Gatland has said that Howley has been calling the shots for this tour, in preparation for when Gatland is away for the Lions.

Too many playerrs who have been injured or who are not in form are largely repsonsible for the results. That, plus sheer stupidity from individual players -- and a coach's way of dealing with that is simple: you have to drop them!

JUst thinking about it, seeing as Hibbard is the only one to be dropped from the squad, does that mean hs is taking the fall for the loss?

glamorganalun wrote:With the players we have I believe we have under performed since the RWC even winning the 6N, we got worse as the games went on as teams knew our game plan.

I agree 100% with this. The fact that we were winning games meant that I wasn't overly concerned - winning matches is the name of the game, after all; but it's true to say that if you know what your opponents are going to do, you're better prepared to contain and counteract it. There's still too little spontaneity to our play and that frustrates me whether we're winning or losing. Look at the game against England: Plan A wasn't working, but we just kept bashing away at it in the hope that it would work eventually. If it wasn't for Scott Williams and his pal Courtney Lawes, we'd have lost that match.

ScarletSpiderman, Yes I think Hibbs has. He gave away the killer pen that led to the lineout, and then gave the next pen by dragging down the maul. Regardless of what went on before, the match should have been won at that point, just by defending. Dreadful discipline and he deserved to be dropped -- there are times when players are unlucky with pens or when they have to commit a pen offence, but coming into the side of a ruck and flopping over when Aus are 30 m from their line, with 1.5 mins to go, is terrible.

I do wonder why I Evans isn't involved.

To be honest I hadn't picked him up as an individual that made any big mistakes in that game. Thats why it semed rather odd to me. Cheers for clearing that up. I must be honest I think that maul was going to collapse whether there were 15 welshmen trying to force it up, if you know what I mean.

"I must be honest I think that maul was going to collapse whether there were 15 welshmen trying to force it up, if you know what I mean." -- Wouldn't disagree with that, and I couldn't see who was responsible in the live game, and maybe some refs wouldn't have given a pen, but the real damage was giving away the pen that led to the lineout. If players do things like that, at such a crucial stage of the game when the win is on, they should always be dropped.

It was such a stupid foul it reminded me of a game between Ospreys and Stade Francais in the HC a few years ago. Ospreys were leading, about 1 min to go, and a ruck formed near the half way line. Ryan Jones, as I recall, was on the deck and tried playing the ball on the ground. Pen given, and then Beauxcis (sp?) kicked it to get the draw. When asked why he did it, I recall Ryan J saying he didn't think the flyhalf could kick it from there. Incredible. Especially when there is so much analysis done of opp players, their strengths etc. I knew if the Stade flyhalf had the chance, he would kcik the pen from there!

Ospreydragon wrote:If players do things like that, at such a crucial stage of the game when the win is on, they should always be dropped.

But a penalty is worth three points whenever it's scored. Bradley Davies gave away at least two needless penalties in that match, both of them in our 22. He's just as deserving of being dropped, if not more so.

"But a penalty is worth three points whenever it's scored. " -- True, but when the game is virtually won, the damage is much greater. A lot depends on the circumstances of the pen -- some are unavoidable or bad luck (Pocock was pulling players in and holding players down, to try to win pens, as all forwards do, for example). There was no reason for Hibbs to do what he did in such a crucial position at such a vital point in the game. All players should be switched on at such a point and no one should give away stupid, needless penalties -- and if they do, they should pay the price. Can you imagine the All Blacks retaining players who do such a thing? He deserves to be dropped.

Ok here are my grudges:

1. Rees at hooker

This whole get the lions front row back together is ridiculous now. Rees hasn't been in form for club or country for the last year. Ken Owens was superb in the 6N, plays decent in the loose first test and doesn't miss a line-out (Not that I can remember) and get's dropped from the squad for the next test for Rees, only to be reinstated to the bench in place of the in form Hibbard. Incredible.

2. Ian Evans?

I assume like everyone else that he hasn't got injured, there's been no news. The outstanding lock of the 6N for us and he isn't used. Incredible, although tbh when we have Davies, AWJ and Charteris its not too big of deal but still he should be playing.

3. Half back pairing

Would have been a great opportunity to try Webb and Hook as a pairing, as these two have actually been in form. The fact Hook didn't get a minute of the field last week was a travesty. Phillips, although his usual aggressive self in the contact areas, hasn't been in the best of form and Webb deserved a chance to show the form he has shown for the O's this season. Rhys should be taken out of the spot light and Hook, the in form FH apart from Biggar, should be rewarded for his recent good form.

I think it will be a close one again unlike what others are saying. I see nothing else that suggests otherwise and both have so much to play for: Wales searching for a win in the final game of the season and finally take a SH scalp on SH soil. Aus on the other hand, will want to send Wales back home with their tails between their legs, knowing that they have whitewashed the reigning grand slam champions.

Aus 23-20 Wales for me.

I suppose it doesn't help Hibbard's cause that he'd only just come on to the field. He should have known better, of course he should. It's a shame because he's been great for the Ospreys at the tail end of the season.

I'm still mystified why Matthew Rees has kept his place.

Because he's a turk, hmmm, so's Priestland. Funny that.

Luckless Pedestrian, If players don't watch their fitness and conditioning, it's more likely that they'll give away pens because they, through tirednesss, don't retain their footing at rucks or lose concrentation and make mistakes. I've suspected certain players have fallen into that category at times.

Matthew Rees didn't deserve to start after the lineout fiasco in the last test.

Priestland has not played well, but I certainly don't blame him for that final kick -- refs are keen to penalise sides in the dying mins for sealing off at rucks and Aus could have won a kickable pen in those circumstances. The error was Hibbs' in giving away that pen 30 m from the Aus try line.

I fancy Wales to win this one.

Good luck.

You deserve to celebrate 4th place in the IRB rankings in style.

munkian wrote:Because he's a turk, hmmm, so's Priestland. Funny that.

Yeah that is why Scott Williams is starting in the centre instead of Ashley Back (who let the try in), oh hang on he isn't. Also correct me if I am wrong here but Rob Howley has no affinity to the Scarlets.

Smiler is probably still in the side because he was part of the Lions front row, with Geth and Adam. As for Priestland, whilst his kicking has been a weak point, Sean Edwards reckons his defencive work is top notch (he said something to that effect after the first test). Also with regards to his lack of attacking (not making line breaks) he does shift it wide when it is on, like the counter attack we made inside our 22m last weekend. Obviously the only reason I am saying this is because I am one eyed, but I wonder if the pundits didn't comment on his kicking if people would be calling for his head.

I for one have had enough of these almost games, I don't care what anyone says, we thoroughly tonked the Saffas the last few times we played them, yet lost. We should've won last week, could've won the week before etc etc...

It is a young team, who have gelled pretty well from the off, yet are struggling to take that next step into beating SH teams regularly. We should've gone to Aus fearless, let the young wings, centres run riot against a weakened Aus team, instead we've attempted nullify and stunt.

We are at a place where unless that win comes soon it never will, these players will develop the SH monkeys on their backs as so many before them. This Aus team is a poor one, the SA team is a poor one by SH standards, Wales have the squad to really beat the Ausies right now (at full strength is a different story) yet we're afraid to.

It winds me up so much that we beat ourselves, the lineout, the attempts at the line an U14's team would finish, the defencive lapses from 1st phase ball an U14's team would be capable of stopping, and the totally aimless kicking by Phillips, RP, and Webb!!

This last test we need to run riot, throw the kitchen sink at Aus, if we recieve a tonking for doing so so be it, but to fall a few points short stunting their game and our own will kill me!

Bluesman - the best teams will almost always know how to finish a game and get the win. It is like that in all sports. If Australia and South Africa are poor, then Wales must be even worse. I do not think Australia, South Africa or Wales are poor teams though.

Rory I totally disagree..

Is the team that played Wales last week the best Aus team you've seen? Are they the best team in the world? Are they better than the WC winning team? NO, then they are a poor. If the Tri nations were played today they would really struggle, thats why they are a poor SH team.

By your reasoning Edinburgh are a better team than Tolouse? I wouldn't say so.

I firmly think this Wales team are capable of beating Aus and SA but are crippled by fear, let the shackles off and go hard or go home I say

Of course not, but there is middle ground between "best" and "poor". Just because they aren't as good as the WC champions hardly makes them a poor team. They are also missing their key players, and yet they still know how to win. They are a great team.

Of course Wales are capable, but they have to learn how to shut them out. The SH teams know how to win games more.

I disagree, this Aus team is average, no playmakers, and too reliant on 2/3 key players.

The Aus team who played Wales are poor when compared to a full Aus team, not just NZ! They are poor in comparison to the Aus team of 2003.

IMO Wales beat themselves over and over, should and could've put Aus, SA, France to the sword, but don't believe they can do so!

We have to drop the respect we have for teams and go out to anhialate them, as NZ do every game.

No playmakers? I don't know what Aussie team you have been watching the past few years mate. Unless you are talking about current injuries of course, but even then you have surely been watching Genia, Barnes and Ashley Cooper. Ione is also a complete danger man.

Not to mention they have Beale, O'Connor and Cooper coming back from injury. Plus they have other world class players such as Pocock, Higginbotham, Horwill etc. Do you really still think they rely on 2/3 key players?

Not to mention the fact they have beat Wales twice now without these apparent "key players".

What are you talking about?

Genia and Pocock have single handedly run this Aus team, Ioane is the only other threat of the last 2 weeks. 3 KEY PLAYERS!

Cooper, Beale and JOC aren't in this Aus team, and are probably Aus best playmakers/linebreakers!

AAC has been ok at FB, The centre pairing uninspiring, Barnes has been poor at 10...

Try to read this without moving the goal posts to your liking, this Aus squad (current playing Wales) are poor by SH standards, Aus standards, and historical standards, and I firmly believe Wales are a better team than them. In game 1 there Wales weren't ever at the races, half the squad not played in months or weeks, stupid basic errors, no nous in the backline and numerous other factors far from beyond Wales control. In game 2 no lineout at all, more basic errors and fear of making mistakes. In game 3 I predict another tight game, more basic errors and for the Aussies to win by 3 - 5 points.

Wales are playing like the underdogs, when they should be going for a cricket score (not that they'd get it, but should be going for it anyway)

Now explain the rationale behind this...

20 mins to go, Aus go down to 14 men, Wales hit a penalty to go 1 point ahead. Previous 10 minutes have been all Wales way, dominating posession and territory, I think had scored 10 unanswered points.

Wales replace Phillips with Webb probably Wales best broken play runner, and renowned for his speed around the breakdown.

In the 10 minutes Aus are down a man, Webb has boxkicked 3 times, twice in Aus half, LONG. Wales have chosen to reset a scrum 3 times from a free kick, and the teams have exchanged a penalty each.

Does that sound like a confident team going for the jugular to kill an opponent off? Or a scared underdog trying to protect the tiniest margin they have?

But that's how we've been under Gatland, Bluesman, it's a limited approach. Only against Italy did we try to cut loose from the first whistle - and it didn't work (possibly because we're not used to playing that way, but also Italy's defence was very good).

I agree with you that it's frustrating to watch a team of talented fooballers straitjacketed by the coaching team's gameplan.

We havn't played like underdogs under Gatland though!!

We've implimented a very regimental kick chase game, kick long chase as a very strong unit, and very agressive, chase hard into opp's half and know the opp pack will be slow to get there, eyeing a turnover.

Kick high and players like North, Roberts and Cuthbert challenge in the air for posession.

We havn't done this V Aus, when we've kicked long we barely made our 10m line, with little agression and fear of a linebreak. We have been extremely back 3 friendly! We've even miss chased, where a few player havn't bothered and our line has been fractured.

When we lose points we seem to relax, and things start to go right, at this level we need to be %100 for the full 80!

I can count the unopposed errors we've made in the last 2 tests and am willing to bet we made less in the whole 6N's!

Misthrows and jumps at the lineout are unforgivable, dropped passes 10 yards from the line with noone in front of you are unforgivable, chasing poorly and not in your unit is unforgivable, missing tackles from 1st phase ball is unforgivable, deciding to box kick long in the opponents half whilst their down a man is unforgivable. All situation that Aus have absolutely no hand in whatsoever, except for the fact that they are Aus and we are scared of them.

Bluesman - we have played an underdog type came under Gatland. We play the 'thump the ball into the opposition half and deal with it in there' gameplan. And that is more or less the same as we are doing now. The only difference is that in the RWC and 6Ns we were more clinical with the set peice and with the breakdowns. If we were winning our lines with ease and able to cause problems at the breakdown (for the opposition as opposed to for us) then the tactics would have probably worked in Aus too.

It still amazes how fickle alot of Welsh fans can be. we lose to Australia in the final play of the game and suddenly we're a poor side.

I understand it was disappointing and frustrating but we were obviously good enough to win, good enough to beat an almost full strength Australia side in their own back yard, something that no Welsh side has done in over 40 years. And this is a good wallaby side only really missing 3 regulars, i suppose if Wales were missing the likes of Jamie Roberts, Toby Faletau it would be pretty even taking everything into account (home advantage to Oz etc) oh wait we are missing a few regulars.

Although it was disappointing to lose when we could have closed the game out the important thing is we learn from it and come back a better side because if we can do that then we are capable of going all the way come the rwc.

Pot,

Wouldn't say we have become a bad team but there have been some poor decisions in selection.

Even as a Dragons fan I would have started R Jones at 8, yes we have missed Roberts but Williams should be in there not Beck.

Priestland has been poor so why not give Hook game time.

Warburton is still on the recovery phase after injury so again why not give Tipuric a run

Pot

Ive not called us a bad side, but we are playing as if we are the Welsh team of the 90's, we are a very young and talented side but don't have the metal to win these encounters.

Scarlet

A good kick chase game is not an underdogs game, look at SA. They kick chase ferociously, pressure you into mistakes and counter strike.

I don't see Gatland having a word with Howley. He's just as bad. When we won the 2008 Grand Slam, we went rapidly downhill. Gatland kept picking the same faces that won him the championship, even though the likes of Byrne, Phillips, Powell, Johnathon anonymous and Ryan Jones had all lost their form. No player should be undroppable. The New Zealanders aren't scared to drop a big name.
As a Dragons fan, I was crying out for Faletau to get a chance 18 months before he did. In that case Gatland was lucky that Toby could handle the pressure of the world cup, even though he made his Wales debut in June. In the 2011 6 nations we had Ryan jones and JT. both of whom were terribly out of form. We didn't experiment at full-back. Byrne started and Hook stepped in when he got injured. Priestland only got his 1st start for Wales in June. This was because S. Jones had a knock. Gatland got so lucky that Priestland, Faletau and Halfpenny were all good enough. You can't argue that Wales were great in the RWC, but we may have been better if these players had more experience!
I do worry that although we currently have a very strong side, that we may stand still and have a few poor years, just like after the 08 slam. Think we finished 4th for 3 years running.
Competition for places is key. We don't need complacency. Just think how much Warburton would give in his next international if Tipuric replaced him.

manofgwent

I don't think we had a great world cup, we beat the teams we should've and lost to those we thought we would, what we did have was a pretty lucky WC where we avoided the SH teams.

You are right though, showing too much loyalty has been Gatlands problem, then throwing kids in together and wondering why we come up short (Fiji, Italy) Warbs hasn't played in months and therefore I think Tuperic should've started the first test.

I think the majority would say the WC was a success from where we'd come from and equaling our best effort.
We always make too many changes when we play a lesser team. To show how little Gatland developed for the world cup, in nov 2010, less than a year before the tournament. Against Fiji, our 2nd row was Gough and Deiniol Jones. I couldn't believe it at the time and looking back it seems almost unbelievable that he picked 2 players that didn't end up going to the tournament.
I worry with our coaches that this side could go stale and ip back as we did 4 years ago!

I think that this series and RWC reveal just how key Wales main weakness is to their future development.
They often get so close to the goal and then fold under pressure; v SA, v France at RWC, now v Aus.
I think that this is an issue of leadership coupled with their preference to play catch up but they regularly come back from behind in 6Ns games so they can do it.
Tehy also make so many unforced errors.
1 victory v Aus would go a long way to get this mental monkey of their back

thebluesmancometh wrote:What are you talking about?

Genia and Pocock have single handedly run this Aus team, Ioane is the only other threat of the last 2 weeks. 3 KEY PLAYERS!

Cooper, Beale and JOC aren't in this Aus team, and are probably Aus best playmakers/linebreakers!

AAC has been ok at FB, The centre pairing uninspiring, Barnes has been poor at 10...

Try to read this without moving the goal posts to your liking, this Aus squad (current playing Wales) are poor by SH standards, Aus standards, and historical standards, and I firmly believe Wales are a better team than them. In game 1 there Wales weren't ever at the races, half the squad not played in months or weeks, stupid basic errors, no nous in the backline and numerous other factors far from beyond Wales control. In game 2 no lineout at all, more basic errors and fear of making mistakes. In game 3 I predict another tight game, more basic errors and for the Aussies to win by 3 - 5 points.

Wales are playing like the underdogs, when they should be going for a cricket score (not that they'd get it, but should be going for it anyway)

Now explain the rationale behind this...

20 mins to go, Aus go down to 14 men, Wales hit a penalty to go 1 point ahead. Previous 10 minutes have been all Wales way, dominating posession and territory, I think had scored 10 unanswered points.

Wales replace Phillips with Webb probably Wales best broken play runner, and renowned for his speed around the breakdown.

In the 10 minutes Aus are down a man, Webb has boxkicked 3 times, twice in Aus half, LONG. Wales have chosen to reset a scrum 3 times from a free kick, and the teams have exchanged a penalty each.

Does that sound like a confident team going for the jugular to kill an opponent off? Or a scared underdog trying to protect the tiniest margin they have?

Just reading this post especially the last line and all I can think is now the Welsh guys know how Irish fans have been feeling for the last 2 years.There's nothing more frustrating than knowing you have the players but seeing them hamstrung by negative,scared tactics.
Hope you guys sort it out on saturday,I'll be up in the small hours to cheer you on.

I think bluesman is just a bit pi@@ed off that wales lost. Time is a good healer they say.

Knackeredknees wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Do people really think Howley is picking the team and setting the limited tactics played the last two years? With the players we have I believe we have under performed since the RWC even winning the 6N, we got worse as the games went on as teams knew our game plan.

I find it frustrating picking players rusty for game 1 and from that game it was obvious plays were not on form they got selected again and now the coaches have done it again, 3- 0 unless they don't react to poor play again. Anybody know why I Evans is not even on the bench??

Don't want to start a fight but is this team underperforming?

You did well in the WC but stil lost to SA AUS and France. I admit they were great games but the tactics don't seam to have changed much since then, maybe at the WC they over performed and that is now expected as the norm.

Don't get me wrong I have set my alarm early so I can watch the game and will be cheering on Wales all the way.

Was the polish freezer overused pre RWC and before the 6Ns? Is all that messing around with the players and prep impacting them now at the end of the season? Is it good for them in the longer run? (I don't know.)

Huwball wrote:

Warburton is normally a good player, but he has been a shadow of his normal self.

He look good against the 6N team but made to look average when play the big boys!

I dont worry about it the not select players because they will be worst which is why they not the first combinator to begin!