WTF! Does Howley want us to lose 3-0?

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18523240

Ok, we don't know if Ian Evans is injured, or there could be many other excuses, but Howley has so underused the players he took out with him it is rediculous. No Tuperic either - it's a travesty. The guys who don't get picked when they have been outperforming the starters must be gutted.

Warburton is normally a good player, but he has been a shadow of his normal self. I think that a captain should be named when they are out there... the same goes for the Lions (POC was crap out there but he had to be picked as he was capt). Tuperic has been playing far better than Warburton, but because he is capt. he has to be picked - it is a joke really

I'm hoping (1/2 of me anyway) that we get tonked by the Aussies - when our own coach doesn't pick the form players (or take them with him) then it is a road to nowhere!

Let's hope Gatland can have a quiet word with him before next years 6N, or we are going to be thumped.

Thoughts?

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Huwball wrote:

Warburton is normally a good player, but he has been a shadow of his normal self.

He look good against the 6N team but made to look average when play the big boys!

I dont worry about it the not select players because they will be worst which is why they not the first combinator to begin!

Warburton look fantastic against South Africa at the RWC. He has missed a lot of rugby. These are his first games since the six nations and he is not I'm best form.

Don't bother mate,he's not exactly receptive when you point out flaws in his argument he just spouts off on a tangent ignoring the points you make.

maestegmafia wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Huwball wrote:

Warburton is normally a good player, but he has been a shadow of his normal self.

He look good against the 6N team but made to look average when play the big boys!

I dont worry about it the not select players because they will be worst which is why they not the first combinator to begin!

Warburton look fantastic against South Africa at the RWC. He has missed a lot of rugby. These are his first games since the six nations and he is not I'm best form.

But SA beaten by the back row of Australia at the RWC! And SA back row so not balance at the RWC. Also Wales LOST! if you forget I reminded you!

So not surprise to me he is not quite as good as the "fond memories". Always we remember the past something more romantic than real.

Maybe Warburton lost the RWC chance for Wales against France by rash move and not calmly. And Tonga even beat France!

maestegmafia

If Scot Quinnel says it is time to (drop Warburton to the bench ) Then maybe it is time some one like Rob Howley should take note.

I have just ask the question on another thread, why is Priestland still in the team?

What with the ribbing that he was getting last week for kicking the ball away in the dying seconds of the game. I would of well and truly thought that he would either be on the bench, or dropped altogether.

Preistland didn't have such a bad game last week, its just Hook is clearly in the better form and Preistland hasn't been the same since the WC.

Owens, Webb, Tupiric, Hook and Evans should all be in the side. Owens did nothing wrong in my book to warrant being dropped from the match 22 last week.

Like Bluesman alluded to, Wales played that 10 mins when Aus were down to 14 men (Which I thought was a red) awfully. Kicked possession away and didn't give themselves a chance to work a try scoring opportunity. I really hope Wales loosen the shackles Saturday and give it a good go, play some running rugby. The only player wanting to do so has been Cuthbert for me. He's constantly coming looking for the ball in field and looks well p'd off when Wales kick it. C'mon Wales just play some good rugby.

Firstly i reckon Gatland will have had a huge inout on selection. Secondly they won the game playing pretty badly, loads of unforced errors, then chucked it away after the hooter. I think Wales have made leaps and bounds from selecting teams consistently and it seems to me that the coaches are laying it on the line by picking the same team; the onus is on the players to produce and they need to step up to the plate. If they made key changes now - many people rightly think a change at 7 , 9 and 10 is necessary - and lose then the blame will fall on selectors and Hook would be hung out to dry again, by keeping the side the same I think that is less likely to happen if they lose and since someone on this forum suggested that Wales are scared to lose more than they are keen to win I don't doubt this is a consideration with the coaches

getting in your excuses early boyos

Why do you think excuses are necessary?

I dont

martyr_94 wrote:Preistland didn't have such a bad game last week, its just Hook is clearly in the better form and Preistland hasn't been the same since the WC.

Owens, Webb, Tupiric, Hook and Evans should all be in the side. Owens did nothing wrong in my book to warrant being dropped from the match 22 last week.

Like Bluesman alluded to, Wales played that 10 mins when Aus were down to 14 men (Which I thought was a red) awfully. Kicked possession away and didn't give themselves a chance to work a try scoring opportunity. I really hope Wales loosen the shackles Saturday and give it a good go, play some running rugby. The only player wanting to do so has been Cuthbert for me. He's constantly coming looking for the ball in field and looks well p'd off when Wales kick it. C'mon Wales just play some good rugby.

I think you are watching the last game with some asassination complex or perhaps with some selected memory, also when Hook (form??) played for most of the first test (albeit at FB) he was pretty poor (form??), so certainly wouldnt trust the guy not to get turned over on a continuous basis.

Based on the last two matches the following players underperformed

Adam Jones
Gethin Jenkins
Hibbard
AWJ
Davies
Lydiate
Warburton
Phillips
Beck

When Wales had possession they invariably got turned over, or gave pens away, the kicking game seemed to be your best option. I think (like Shaun Edwards) that Priestland had a very good defensive game, and was one of the very few who could have said that.

Wales in fact lost that game by silly defensive errors and in the 72 min Gethin Jenks gave another pen away in front of the posts and it was only Barnes injury that didnt put Oz in front

martyr_94 wrote:Owens did nothing wrong in my book to warrant being dropped from the match 22 last week.

That really was a remarkable decision. Ken Owens had a good game in the first Test, the lineout functioned well, and his reward was to be dropped from the match-day squad altogether. How is he supposed to feel after that?

flyhalffactory wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:Preistland didn't have such a bad game last week, its just Hook is clearly in the better form and Preistland hasn't been the same since the WC.

Owens, Webb, Tupiric, Hook and Evans should all be in the side. Owens did nothing wrong in my book to warrant being dropped from the match 22 last week.

Like Bluesman alluded to, Wales played that 10 mins when Aus were down to 14 men (Which I thought was a red) awfully. Kicked possession away and didn't give themselves a chance to work a try scoring opportunity. I really hope Wales loosen the shackles Saturday and give it a good go, play some running rugby. The only player wanting to do so has been Cuthbert for me. He's constantly coming looking for the ball in field and looks well p'd off when Wales kick it. C'mon Wales just play some good rugby.

I think you are watching the last game with some asassination complex or perhaps with some selected memory, also when Hook (form??) played for most of the first test (albeit at FB) he was pretty poor (form??), so certainly wouldnt trust the guy not to get turned over on a continuous basis.

Based on the last two matches the following players underperformed

Adam Jones
Gethin Jenkins
Hibbard
AWJ
Davies
Lydiate
Warburton
Phillips
Beck

When Wales had possession they invariably got turned over, or gave pens away, the kicking game seemed to be your best option. I think (like Shaun Edwards) that Priestland had a very good defensive game, and was one of the very few who could have said that.

Wales in fact lost that game by silly defensive errors and in the 72 min Gethin Jenks gave another pen away in front of the posts and it was only Barnes injury that didnt put Oz in front

Flyhalf, if that is your assessment of the players, do you not then think it is unfair for so many to blame Howley?

Can't see how the kicking game was our best option, especially when we were one point up with an Australian winger in the bin. Isn't it common sense to put it through the hands then?

thebluesmancometh wrote:A good kick chase game is not an underdogs game, look at SA. They kick chase ferociously, pressure you into mistakes and counter strike.

I see the kick and chase as being afraid of having the ball in your own half. Or alternatively being so supremely confident of your set peice that you believe you can turn the opposition over on their own lines/scrums etc. Also the other thing to take into account is that we are talking about the welsh rugby team, and when they have their tails up etc (just looking atthe regions style) they want to run with the ball from anywhere and everywhere and keep it in hand and not kick at all. The kicking tactic is something that is more use by the international set up, which IMO makes it a fear of losing tactic as opposed to an attacking threat (for Wales anyway).

'Fear of losing tactic' is about right. Ultimately I want to see us beat teams well, not keep it tight and sneak wins. You don't have to be in the opposition 22 before you attack.

Thing is that tactic worked well for us in the RWC and the 6Ns, so we will probably stick to it. I do think that maybe by having the likes of Priestland, Foxy, Beck and Halfpenny in the backs at least we have players who will spot an overlap if it is on, no matter where. Like Priestland setting up the counter from inside our 22m last match.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Equo - Fair play to you for taking time out of baiting your own lot to take the time and hassle to biat us too.

Out of interest are you disagreeing that the welsh team had aus on the ropes? I think the clock was on something like 79:30 and he ball was in their half and we were up on the scoreboard. That is IMO on the ropes. We made mistakes and lost the game. The team should have learnt from their mistakes and be rather keen to prove that to the public.

What actually happened is that we nearly got away with picking Australia's pocket. With an average of 35% territory and posession to say that the scoreline was flattering cannot be disputed by any rational man. On another day with Cooper, OConnor and Beale in the backline, Aus would have been out of site.

Instead of deluding ourselves lets concentrate on improving those stats and Howleys selection has made no attempt to do that. Warburton is rusty, Smiler is rusty, Evans is a better option in the 2nd row. These changes needed to be made but Howley (who lets be honest has fallen on his knob in a fanny pit) is too weak / scared / stupid to make. All we get from him are platitudes and management speak gobbledygook

Very disappointed. If Howley is being groomed as a Gat takeout we are in real trouble

Howley (who lets be honest has fallen on his knob in a fanny pit

Howley has said that he had no problem with priestland kicking the ball away in the final minute, he said that aus had the ball inside their own 22 and Wales had backed their defence to see the game out, he then goes on to say that it was what followed that cost us the game at the line out and giving the pen away in(basically blaming hibbard)

Wales had the lead for 71 minutes of the game. I hope we show up on Saturday and finish this long, exciting, rollercoaster of a season with a bang!

Then hopefully come back next season rareing to go again

I said all week that the tactic of kicking wasn't wrong but still think the execution of that tactic was wrong and like all game no chasers.

We beat Ireland in the 6N much the same way - a last minute penalty after the pack took the ball up to halfway from under own posts.

Learn from that? Nah!

He look good against the 6N team but made to look average when play the big boys!

Why you bother posting I don't know. Warbs made his name V Aus, and SA, oh and don't forget WPOTY Duss!!!

""We asked Australia to attack from 70-odd metres unfortunately the events that happened post that Rhys Priestland kick were difficult to comprehend."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18530569

Explains why it's no surprise that Hibbs isn't in the 22!