CALZAGHE VS WARD

Ward's still in his prime but against a prime Calzaghe how do you see this going?

Calzaghe's tenacious and makes this a tough fight but I feel Ward may be too skilled for him; so I slightly lead towards Ward, only slightly!

Calzaghe UD - tough and ugly fight but Calzaghe turns on the motor and overwhelms young ward. Ward gets no time to rest and will fade as the fight goes on.

Enzo however would get beaten up as he is a blasphemer.

Ward, VERY tight. I'd go as far to say a MD.

We saw Bhop push Joe as far as he's ever been, and I think Ward is more skilled and just...better.

I'm not sure Ward can fight at a frenetic pace for 12 rounds. He always seems to take a round off here and there and even slowed down against Froch. I don't see him winning a 10-8 round like Hopkins did either. Calzaghe in a close points decision in what would be his toughest fight.

Tough fight to call but I would favour Ward if pushed. Definately going the distance as neither are power hitters.

Wards strength on the inside I think might make the difference. There is a slight question mark remaining over how Ward deal with a very fast boxer with Joes kind of handspeed, but I think he has the all round game to cope.

Calzaghes not comfortable on the inside where Ward is strong and I just think Ward has the all round game to cope with Calzaghes biggests assets - his handspeed and workrate.

Would pick ward by SD

As someone said, Bhop pushed joe to the edge as I think that ward is better than that version of Bhop. Joe was a great fighter but i don't think that he can fall back on his workrate which he did in some of his biggest fights as ward will manage to neutralise his attacks

ward might just be one of those special fighters

The more I think about this, the more I find myself leaning towards Ward.

I should probably tread with a little more caution, since he hasn't boxed an elite left hander thus far, but other than outworking the American, I'm not sure I can see a way for Calzaghe to win. Ward has a better inside game, seems a pinch stronger at 168 lb, has a better defence, can use the ring well etc. Calzaghe does well enough in all those areas as well, of course, but I see Ward just being the little bit better in them.

Ward by a close-ish decision, two to three points on all cards.

Figuring out Ward and figuring out Kessler are completely different scenarios.

Kessler is one dimensional. Ward has many dimensions.

Ward is much closer to Hopkins, who Calzaghe scraped past. I actually think he might well be better than the version of Hopkins Calzaghe beat.

I think theres some truth in the Super 6 inflated the reputations of those involved, but its not just the wins its the performances Ward put in. He basically dominated all of his opponents in impressive fashion, showing he could fight southpaw, on the inside, on the outside and really mix it up.

Would be very surprised if Calzaghe won a wide UD over someone of Wards calibre. For me it has a close fight written all over it.

i think ward would be out worked, even if he lands cleaner punchs, yes b hop pushed joe, but i wouldnt say that was "prime" calzaghe. the problem with joe is he wouldnt fight wards pace, he'd fight at his own, which so far ward hasnt had to deal with.

having said that if he beats dawson and a few other top quality fights then maybe my opinion would change.

I think wards angles and head movement nick it for him, would be close

owen10ozzy wrote:I can see what your saying Manos regards Kessler but equally if your looking at the performances of both then you have to acknowledge some of the ways Calzaghe took apart his opponents..

Lacy often gets derided as one of the most hyped fighters in recent times...for me whilst certainly not as good as we were led to believe I do think he was a decent enough boxer to have gone on and had success...

Problem is they matched him with Calzaghe who absolutley battered him...in fact it is up their with some of the most dominating performances in modern times. He literally stopped the American's career in his tracks and Lacy was never the same again.

Ill admit to not seeing loads of Ward..certainly not in his early days. But of the fights I have seen I would say his two most impressive performances were ...Froch & Abraham.

Both of those fighters were tailor made for someone of his style. Again that is'nt to say they weren't impressive becasue he did look good but based on his style (and without the British heart leading the head) neither were ever truly going to worry Ward too much because he had the style to beat both.

Calzaghe could fight on the outside just as well as Ward,...on the inside I would agree with you and give Ward the advantage however it isnt by much because it's easy to forget that Calzaghe could more than handle himself their...as seen in the Byron Mitchell fight.

The big key for in this fight is whether Ward could handle the pace. And not in terms of stamina because the guy has shwon he has a good engine. However Calzaghe even when he fought on the outside did it in an aggressive/come forward manner where he would swarm his opponent with combos of 6/8 punches at a time....Ward throws enough but can be guilty of throwing single shots at times.

I just question whether, and again this is key, when Calzaghe was in his peak..Ward would be able to get away from the Welshman and get off enough shots. I think he would have some success but I just think the fact Calzaghe would match him with speed and variety of punches added to that the huge work ethic and volume of punches he gets off...Ward would struggle too look like he was on top.

As I said I would always have it by decision but for me it would be UD because I think Joe' aggressiveness, volume of punches would keep him on top for long periods of the fights.

Wards next fight is going to be a real tester...and for me his first genuine one in his pro career. Dawson has the size to not be bullied around on the inside and he is also no slouch (well depending on which Dawson turns up). I think this is going to be Wards first opponent who will not just march forward but will have a game plan which Ward will have to get around and figure out because unlike Kessler, Abraham and Froch...Dawson wont just be stood in front of him the whole fight.

I could see Calzaghe winning a close decision in the manner of how he beat Hopkins. But I would really be surprised if he won a lopsided decision against Ward who could well be bette than anyone Calzaghe faced.

I thought Wards dismantling of Kessler was his best performance followed by Froch because these two are better than Abraham who had been exposed twice by then already.

Lacy Im not sold on at all. The beating he took off Calzaghe was certainly a bad one but I think there is real element of just a fighter that was overhyped in there on top. Shot versions Taylor and Jones still comfortably beat this guy and while it was a 5 star performance from Joe I think it was also a case of Lacy being shown up as one dimensional.

I think with Ward there is a genuine question mark of how he copes with a fighter thats faster than him in terms of handspeed. Calzaghe would have advantages in workrate and power. However Ive seen enough of Ward now to think he has the tools neccessary to beat this. Excellent countering, very strong inside game, good movement.

I think with Calzaghe in these hypothetical fights, he seems to always end up winning by virtue of workrate. Its a great attribute but top fighters can nullify this or at least work with it through their own skills. Calzaghe would be pretty much unbeatable if the workrate factor was always the decisive factor. Its not always the case the that guy that throws and lands more wins the fight in any case. Quality can beat quantity.

Close fight for me, would not be too surprised one way or the other. But definately would not antiipate Calzaghe winning comfortably or widely. And if Ward can make it an inside fight then he holds a big advantage over Calzaghe in that department.

JOE CALZAGHE: "Andre Ward,I would beat him"

Recent Interview by my good friend Ciaran Gibbons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMow7dS9SMw

I agree with Joe and believe he's too good for Andre Ward. Volume from Calzaghe plus Ward isn't going to be able to rough him up. Joe has greater speed and Ward is not a puncher - pretty much believe that there is only one clear winner, as I don't see what Ward does that troubles Joe. Also, Joe will still be strong in the final rounds.

I'd say Calzaghe in a messy horrible fight that could effectively go either way. What people forget about Calzaghe was that he wasn't that easy to tag and rarely got hit cleanly. As in the Hopkins fight Calzaghe won by sheer workrate more than anything and the way Ward faded against Froch just makes me lean twards JC but not by much.

JC, for me. The speed is the key, and of course workrate. 116-112.

In a one off fight - Calzaghe - but not by very much and it woudl be horrible.

Calzaghe presented such unique problems for any of his opponents and while I tihnk Ward is the more skilled fighter, it's difficult to guess how he woudl fare against a fast southpaw with such a high workrate.

Ward to win a re-match though.

Ward by a clear UD for me. I reckon we are watching a boxer who will be great. A definite ATG for me. Much of it depends on who he fights and his level of competition. SO far he has proven to be head and shoulders above his nearest competitor. I can see him dominating the LHW division. Shame his frame will not carry him to CW division though.

Ward wins a comfortable decision for me, he is just better in every department. No disrespect to JC, but i have a feeling Ward is gonna be a truly great fighter who would probably outclass any super middle other than Roy Jones in the divisions history

Calzaghe by comfortable decision for me, greater speed and work rate win the day.

Calzaghe by close, but clear decision for me. I think Ward is good, very good, but Calzaghe was a truly excellent fighter who suffers from a strangely poor appraisal of his career. He could have achieved things at a greater rate, but just like the tortoise, he got there in the end!Records are always pulled apart on here, and you can find fault with anyone if you try hard enough, but Joe seems to get much more stick than some and much more than he deserves.

For me, he would give Ward pace, workrate, angles that no-one else in the history of the division bar RJJ can display, all allied to a southpaw stance, a respectful dig and a chin that was outstanding. It is no reflection on Ward as a fighter, who may or may not go on to be a great, but I really think Calzaghe would win a decision based on their styles.

A lot of you have backed Ward but the voting's saying different.

Tino - Agreed. I think Calzaghe is vastly underrated as a fighter purely down to the questions marks that people hang over him. In terms of pure skills, handspeed, work rate (and effective rate), punch variety...he is right up there with RJJ and even Floyd Mayweather for (Floyd is better before people start).

Manos you definitly bring valid points regard Ward...I think you maybe overemphazing how much im putting it down to work rate alone...I think its a combination of his work rate and ability. Yes work rate wont always win the day but when it is as effective as Joe's was and with his other skills I just dont see Ward triumphing on the scorecards..and he certainly doesnt knock him out. Also just to say I didnt say he would win clearly ...just comfortably i.e. by 3 or 4 rounds.

I would like to point out that Ward may go on to prove he is one of the greats and at that stage I would re-evalute my decision. However at this moment in time he has too many question marks...which fall in line with what Calzaghe would bring....for me to believe he could beat the Welshman.

Can I also add how nice it is to have a Calzaghe debate which doesnt turn into a farce with Wumming and talk of his career & avoidance of certain people etc. Good Work Chaps!

Sugar Boy - The posts have Calzaghe 10-7 up...also alot of people who say Calzaghe will just bote and not give a reason..unfortunatly thats how many of these Polls end up working.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Calzaghe by close, but clear decision for me. I think Ward is good, very good, but Calzaghe was a truly excellent fighter who suffers from a strangely poor appraisal of his career. He could have achieved things at a greater rate, but just like the tortoise, he got there in the end!Records are always pulled apart on here, and you can find fault with anyone if you try hard enough, but Joe seems to get much more stick than some and much more than he deserves.

For me, he would give Ward pace, workrate, angles that no-one else in the history of the division bar RJJ can display, all allied to a southpaw stance, a respectful dig and a chin that was outstanding. It is no reflection on Ward as a fighter, who may or may not go on to be a great, but I really think Calzaghe would win a decision based on their styles.

I can't quite get my head around this mate

Owen

This being a british board, it's no surprise that patriotism takes over. Most objective non patriotic people would pick Ward as he is the better boxer. Does everything JC can do but better.

JC is my favourite Brit boxer of all time, but Ward is special.

Speed? No. Workrate? No.

Wrong again, Az.

Aye, what Owen said. Close and hardfought but no real doubt who the winner is.

Only mildly patronising, Az. You must try harder. It is nothing do with patriotism on my behalf, I am English born with a Scottish father and couldn't give a monkeys about flags and lumps of land. Genuinely couldn't care less. Perhaps you could extend the courtesy of crediting the board with enough intelligence to make their decisions based on what they think of them as fighters, not what is on their birth certificate?

I always find amongst boxing fans that 'speed' can be quite open to interpretation, usually because not everyone makes the distinction between speed and mobility. I'd agree that Calzaghe has the faster hands, although Ward is no slouch in this department. However, in terms of foot speed and quick moving around the ring, Ward comes out on top for me, as he's the more mobile fighter.

Whichever way you've voted, I think the key and interesting thing to consider here is that just about everyone has stated that they only see their pick winning by a smallish margin - so whatever you make of anyone's post, in most cases, it's no slight against either fighter.

Fists of Fury wrote:Speed? No. Workrate? No.

Wrong again, Az.

JC throws fast pitter patter punches. Ward is also fast. Perhaps not as fast as JC. As for workrate, that depends on what you mean. I assume its the number of punches thrown per round. Well, the quality will come from Ward and the quantity from JC. In the latter rounds, the quality will take over.

Ward is better defensively and offensively. An all round better boxer. I'm always looking at the Bhop fight as how JC would get on with Ward. I firmly believe Ward is the superior boxer than Hop and would pose more questions that JC would not be able to answer.

As for the speed advantage, that is negated when fighting up close. Look at Chavez Snr on how he negated speed.

Put this question on an American board and the results would be opposite. Not wanting to insult anyone (for a change), but that is a fact. People will deny it, but patriotism plays a big part in predictions.

Ask some Aussies. They hate Americans and Brits in equal measure. Or Canadians. They seem fair people. Dont ask Saffers though as they'll vote on racial lines.

Ward isn't a power puncher at all, his shots are probably about as powerful as JC 'Pitter Patter' shots.

Ward in a masterclass for me, with Calzaghe made to miss all night long, and actually looking rather ordinary.


Can't overlook Calzaghe not granting Hopkins a rematch on his own patch with all the publicity that would have brought to Wales.


And then Jones over Dawson. I don't think Calzaghe was comfortable with technicians, and was selective in his matchmaking. Can't even give Joe a squeak here.


Cue abuse.

azania wrote:
Or Canadians. They seem fair people.

I will ask my wife then. She will vote for whomever has the best legs though so it might not be all that comprehensive.

And as for them being fair? To paraphrase Uncle Mayweather "Az, you don't know sh!t about Canadians".

A genuine world class test? How does one evaluate that? He's made most opponents look ordinary. If he gets past Dawson, would that be the world class test or would be weight excuse rear its head. Personally I think it will and should. Ward should be the one going up.

I agree that JC has under-rated power. No-one decks Eubank unless you have power.

I'd say Kessler has the technical skills to land cleanly. After all he did land cleanly frequently on JC. Look at how Ward handled him.

Internationally they are fair people. Who cares anyway. Perhaps a Swiss would give the honest answer. Neutral people after all.....allegedly.

azania wrote:Internationally they are fair people. Who cares anyway. Perhaps a Swiss would give the honest answer. Neutral people after all.....allegedly.

Ok sweatheart. It was only a joke.

Ward makes JC miss all night? When has ANYONE made JC miss? You will not avoid someone with that kind of handspeed, even with Wards defensive skill.

Joe always found a way to win, if Ward wins its a close fight, talks of a shutout are quite laughable, not at all justified and probably from Calzaghe haters.

Azania - First thing is first...you cant use Hopkins as the measuring stick for a fight between the two. He is completely different to Ward. Ward is a counter puncher where as Hopkins likes to rough up fights and turn them into a clinching/inside game.

I dont think Ward would look any better against Hopkins than Calzaghe did. Though I do think Ward would eek out the win.

As for defensive abilities, I agree Ward probably does edge this. However he most certainly does not have as good offensive abilities. You have to remember that we are talking 'PRIMES' and in their respective primes I give Calzaghe Speed, Workrate and Power.

You may have a point with regards to quality over quantity but even that for me is debatable. Calzaghe could often be accused of throwing 'pitter patter' punches but in many of the fights that he did...he did so because they were scoring punches and it gave him the round.

If you look back at certain fights in Joe's career he too was a quality puncher when he needed to be and when the opponent had the style that he could 'turn it on' against like Eubank he threw some absolute World Class punches....

It is easy for a boxers punching to look quality against people who are there to be hit...again im not saying Ward doesnt have good punch quality..but against Abraham, Kessler, Froch...it is going to look like you are the most accurate puncher in the business....take Calzaghe's fight with Lacy..the guy was there to be hit all night so Joe did...throwing almost, possibly even over 1000 punches and landing at will.

My question would be..when the opponent isnt their to be hit can Ward switch up his workrate and pump out volume so he can take 'close rounds'..which there would be plenty of in a fight between himself & Joe.

You say Kessler had the technical skills...alot of his success came in the first 4 rounds against Joe and much of that was inside work...1) because he closed down the angles but also 2) because Joe for some stupid reason tried to trade with him. Once Joe got to the 6th round..he had not only figured out Kessler but also knew if he boxed on the outside he would win it easily. From there onwards I'd say Joe made him look pretty ordinary.

As for Ward...I think I said yesterday that he was impressive against Kessler...but even their questions marks remain. No one with genuine sensibility and logic could deny the cuts Kessler suffered had a bearing on that fight. Without them I think he would have caused more problems than he did...which is a shame in my eyes because I think Ward would have still worked him out and won. The problem is not too much credit can be given on the basis the fight wasn't what it should have been and Kessler's inability to fight 100% has left questions unanswered.

As I have said I think Ward has quality in abundance but I think their are still plenty of questions that need to be asked especially in dealing with certain styles....one of which not only Joe brings to the table but also does so as a world class operater...for that reason I cant have Ward beating him at this time. [b]

I wouldn't go as far as a shut out. Far from it. But I can see Ward winning by a clear and decisive UD leaving no doubt as to who is the better fighter. The first half dozen rounds would be nip and tuck until Ward, down the stretch, figures out JC.

azania wrote:Put this question on an American board and the results would be opposite. Not wanting to insult anyone (for a change), but that is a fact. People will deny it, but patriotism plays a big part in predictions.

Ask some Aussies. They hate Americans and Brits in equal measure. Or Canadians. They seem fair people. Dont ask Saffers though as they'll vote on racial lines.

you make a point!!

Let's wait for your best friend TRUSS' thoughts on this.

Ward is not just a counter puncher. He is a good alrond fighter. One of a very few who can counter punch whilst moving forward. I believe he is better than any version of Hopkins that ever existed.

When looking at a head to head, I look for the boxer's primes and nothing else. Ward isn't even in his prime I reckon and will get better. But at this stage he's better than any version of JC. Ward imo is a compete boxer. He reminds me of Floyd but with more spite.

You can't take Hop out of JC's resume and bring in Lacy. Lets not forget than an ancient RJJ comprehensively beat Lacy. He is not a good measuring stick to apply if Hop isn't either.

Ward hasn't fought a heavy bag yet. If he did I believe his very accurate punches would take the guy out. But that's irrelevant. For this fight, quality would win out over quantity.

Disagree Az, there's always room for improvement but I think Ward's well in his prime.

OK, put it this way. Ward deals with Hop better than JC dealt with him. Why? Because Ward is the better and more importantly imo the more intelligent with greater variety to his game. The key here is the greater variety. JC may have the edge on speed, but not on skill. Ward has that. JC may have the greater work-rate, but Ward has the intelligence and ability to employ that ability to negate the work-rate issue.

Take Floyd v Judah for example. Judah had the speed edge, but Floyd's intelligence and ability to use that intelligence worked for him after 4 rounds. (not saying JC is on par with Judah - JC is far superior).

Ward will take this fight to where he is more comfortable and JC would not be adaptable enough to force his strategy on Ward. He may have done that with Kessler, but Ward is a superior fighter.

Ward wins clearly by 3-4 rounds.

With regards Calzaghes speed and workrate, I think if you take the last Pacquiao/Marquez fight its a good example of how I see Ward being able to deal with Calzaghe.

Pacquiao held all the advantages on paper in handspeed and workrate. He threw more. He even outlanded Marquez according to compubox. But for the most part these advantages were negated by Marquez who controlled the fight better and used good movement and ambush tactics to confuse Pacquaio and land the better quality shots. Add on top of that that Ward is physically stronger and more qualified on the inside and I think its tough for Calzaghe.

I think Calzaghe has the handspeed and stamina/ workrate advantages but probably not any other real advantages and Ward being a top technician I think has all the smarts and attributes to counter act Calzaghes flurries through effective movement, countering and inside game.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Calzaghe by close, but clear decision for me. I think Ward is good, very good, but Calzaghe was a truly excellent fighter who suffers from a strangely poor appraisal of his career. He could have achieved things at a greater rate, but just like the tortoise, he got there in the end!Records are always pulled apart on here, and you can find fault with anyone if you try hard enough, but Joe seems to get much more stick than some and much more than he deserves.

For me, he would give Ward pace, workrate, angles that no-one else in the history of the division bar RJJ can display, all allied to a southpaw stance, a respectful dig and a chin that was outstanding. It is no reflection on Ward as a fighter, who may or may not go on to be a great, but I really think Calzaghe would win a decision based on their styles.

I agree, very perceptive analysis.

Similar to Hopkins fight but think ward gets out worked in a messy and close fight