Wales mindframe

All whinging aside, and we have done a lot of it on the match thread, Wales will continually fall short when it comes to the big 3.

Why?

Because we have convinced ourselves over 80 years that they are better, we are mentally looking at these games as underdogs!

I have said it everywhere that this Wales squad is superior to this particular Aus squad, in most aspects except from mindframe. Aus are playing like a pressured champ to beat the contender, they know they could and should win.

In all 3 tests we were at a crucial point in the game where we were either ahead with 10 to go, or had such momentum only one team was in it. Yet as soon as this key moment in the game occurs we absolutely bottle it. Kick the ball away, stop playing, trying to defend leads from 20 mins out, and generally not knowing what to do to close a game out!

We can whinge about the ref, the bounce of the ball, and the top 2 inches all we like but at the end of the day we are short because we believe we are!

I will be very interested in the AI's though, and will go as far to say as if we don't beat at least 1 of the SH teams this young team will have developed a monkey on their backs big enough to hinder this generation of players and fans!

Wales gave away too many penalties for no reason, not because Australia earned them.

Simple.

"Wales gave away too many penalties for no reason" -- There is a reason -- lack of basic technical skills to perform the basics, especially under pressure.

Yes. Shows the skill isn't as high as we think and the coaching is poor.

There was also an amazing Oz counter ruck & turnover in the 2nd half. Something Wales still can't do.

We are good enough to win the grand slam, but we do not have the forwards to up the pace and intensity to the SH level.

Most of those penalties was in the kicking range of Berrick Barnes aswell.

I simply could not understand why Priestland was in the starting line up. Hook, although not sure if he is a better 10 than Priestland, i do believe that he should of started.

Also Sam Warburton? why did he even start the game? he lasted about 5 minutes or so. If he was not 100 percent before the game started then he should never ad played in the first place.

Because we have convinced ourselves over 80 years that they are better, we are mentally looking at these games as underdogs

Not sure about that, in fact I think it is the exact opposite, in the past Wales played with abandonement and width as they had nothing to lose. they were the underdogs and that meant mentally they held no fear for the outcome.

In this series many rated them to win because of their continual improvement and the quality players in their present squad.

Now they face a new mental challenge, one of knowing they are good enough to win, you can almost compare it to "ignorance is bliss".

They are no longer ignorant of the possibility of being touted good enough, hence there is now a fear of failure, "not living up to their potential"

So once they learn to deal with that, they will progress once again.

When Gary Kirsten was asked about the SA cricket team and their "choking" his answer was simple, under pressure experienced players can make the right decision under pressure.

Just my humble opinion

biltongbek wrote:

Because we have convinced ourselves over 80 years that they are better, we are mentally looking at these games as underdogs

Not sure about that, in fact I think it is the exact opposite, in the past Wales played with abandonement and width as they had nothing to lose. they were the underdogs and that meant mentally they held no fear for the outcome.

In this series many rated them to win because of their continual improvement and the quality players in their present squad.

Now they face a new mental challenge, one of knowing they are good enough to win, you can almost compare it to "ignorance is bliss".

They are no longer ignorant of the possibility of being touted good enough, hence there is now a fear of failure, "not living up to their potential"

So once they learn to deal with that, they will progress once again.

When Gary Kirsten was asked about the SA cricket team and their "choking" his answer was simple, under pressure experienced players can make the right decision under pressure.

Just my humble opinion

Biltong I agree. It's a lot harder to deal with under achievement when you know you are capable. I have watched many Wales teams not capable of wining. This team will feel worse because their destiny was in their own hands and they could not take it.

Yep this is the difference.

Wales would normally lose by 15-20 point at HOME to Australia. So to get so close 2 tests in a row AWAY from home shows massive improvement.

Shane Williams retirement is definitely showing. He was instrumental in Wales' last 2 wins over oz.

On their day Wales can beat anyone.

Come on Hersh, no need for that

There is!

Before the tour kicked off some Welsh posters on here were being very disrespectful towards the Aussies.

3-0 is a fair reflection IMO of where Wales are in world rugby, they're not as good as they think they are.

HERSH wrote:There is!

Before the tour kicked off some Welsh posters on here were being very disrespectful towards the Aussies.

3-0 is a fair reflection IMO of where Wales are in world rugby, they're not as good as they think they are.

Hersh,
Now and again you post something sensible but you just can't control your fatal flaw and inevitably you reveal what a complete tool you are. Shame.

When 2 sides are evenly matched you just need a bit of luck to go your way, little things like the bounce of the ball for James Hook's run could have made all the difference.

But here is the fact, Wales lost the series by the most minimal of score lines, they lost a place in the world cup final by 1 point, they ARE edging closer than they ever have been and should draw confidence from this series despite the losses.

The players need to go home, have a rest, get a good pre-season in and get back into form for their clubs

The penalty count in this match is ridiculous. Wales 14 Australia 9. Wales do not usually conceded do many. Neither do Oz...!

That said two very evenly matched teams. Look forward to the AIs now, time for some revenge on the SH by the NH hopefully.

I disagree with you totally HERSH, most of what I read before the tour was some confidence and some nerves.

I for one predited that either Wales would win the tour 2-1 or lose 3-0. I was very confident, and this Aus squad were very beatable, as are the SA team at present.

I am extremely disapointed, but mostly with Wales approach and mindset throughout, and I wish England all the luck in the world, they look bullied and don't seem to come close to the boks, but there are patches of real quality, and if they can start well...

Billtong

My point is when your the underdog, your constantly playing a different style of rugby, if you take a lead, or are near to it late on you panic and try to protect it, or make silly mistakes.
The underdog tag is the Roger Bannister mile syndrome, we've lost to Aus a few times as we were developing, I think the WC and last AI was too early for this welsh team, and all of a sudden the monkey on their backs start to grow!
Look at the baby blacks, never beaten in a JWC until wales beat them, then SA beat them 3 games later.

I don't buy into this underdogs just throw it around with gay abandon, it's the exact opposite today, look at England, Scotland and Italy in the 6N, all 3 stifled wales and offered little of their own threat in reality, Wales weren't even very good in those 3 games, yet the opposition beat themselves almost.

majesticimperialman wrote:Most of those penalties was in the kicking range of Berrick Barnes aswell.

I simply could not understand why Priestland was in the starting line up. Hook, although not sure if he is a better 10 than Priestland, i do believe that he should of started.

Also Sam Warburton? why did he even start the game? he lasted about 5 minutes or so. If he was not 100 percent before the game started then he should never ad played in the first place.

You're right about Warburton, but don't over exaggerate the time to try emphasising your point Madge. 5 minutes

Also, why if you aren't sure if Hook is a better ten than Priestland do you think he should start ahead of him?

Wales were just unlucky in the 2nd test, could have won. Should have won the final test but Joubert didn't want us to for some odd reason, so officially made himself Australias '16th man'. It was a disgraceful performance. Avoid him when we play NZ and Aus in the autumn and we can beat them.

Blues man I am interest to know why when I posting the article to the very same point yesterday you just post ghost icon at me and try with TO to get
Me ban from the site and tell me I am just WUM and in the end fight got so bad I ask moderator to liquidate the thread.

Now today you come in and post exact same
Article with only difference your English a bit better to mine.

Whats the "beef"? You seem to agreeing with my point now. So you agree I didn't try to WUM?

Morgannwg wrote:Wales were just unlucky in the 2nd test, could have won. Should have won the final test but Joubert didn't want us to for some odd reason, so officially made himself Australias '16th man'. It was a disgraceful performance. Avoid him when we play NZ and Aus in the autumn and we can beat them.

Morgannwg wrote:Wales were just unlucky in the 2nd test, could have won. Should have won the final test but Joubert didn't want us to for some odd reason, so officially made himself Australias '16th man'. It was a disgraceful performance. Avoid him when we play NZ and Aus in the autumn and we can beat them.

I guess that is as good an excuse as any thing else.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Wales were just unlucky in the 2nd test, could have won. Should have won the final test but Joubert didn't want us to for some odd reason, so officially made himself Australias '16th man'. It was a disgraceful performance. Avoid him when we play NZ and Aus in the autumn and we can beat them.

Out of curious interest, why you make record like joke of me , is this the attempt to try with moderators make ban me from the site? Can you make me teach speak like you? I support the teams closer to the circum, supporting England, Spain, Portugal, Russia and Ukraine innit.

Morg

Don't bother mate, he has had it explained to him, he is playing the ignorant game to keep up the alter ego. He is giving it his best shot to bait me, but is a poor little worked out WUM. Dont lower yourself to his level.

Dont beat yourselves up you were unlucky in the 2nd test being 75 seconds from a win, and also one point away from victory in the 3rd. Even in the 1st test you were only eight points away.

Some key players hadnt played since March / April and it showed they didnt perform well in the first test, but maybe this wasnt the excuse in the other two

Gethin Jenkins - gave away some silly penalties in the 2nd test
Adam Jones - looked laboured in all three tests
AWJ - very poor in the last two tests, why Charteris was dropped I will never know
Lydiate - got spanked well and truely by Higginbottom
Warburton - very rusty and it showed
Beck - defensive lapses, led to first try

flyhalf

Gotta disagree with a few of your points...

Lydiate was one of our best players, and one of the best players on the pitch. He single handedly saved us from conceding 3/4 tries in that first test.

That is all

thebluesmancometh wrote:flyhalf

Gotta disagree with a few of your points...

Lydiate was one of our best players, and one of the best players on the pitch. He single handedly saved us from conceding 3/4 tries in that first test.

That is all

Fair call Bluesman, but I kinda dont see it, Higginsbottom went through Dan like a hot knife thru butter for Ozs first try in the first test (albeit he had support from Palu), and he did it on numerous occasions in the 2nd and 3rd tests. Not saying that Lydiate wasnt one of your best players but he deffo was second best in the most vital area that was against his opposite number Higginsbottom

Higginbotham was very good, but Lydiate doesn't miss tackles. Norths try was similar against Aus forwards, doesn't mean he's the better player.

Lydiates tackling was superb first test, like I said saved numerous tries, because he flies out and hit's hard and low, like a bullet. Players do tend to fall forward but that doesn't mean they have gone through him, it's a percentage game and Lydiates int percentage is one of the best.

Higginbotham didn't once break Lydiates tackle and go on from what I remember, he carried very well and went over the gamline, but that was against most Welsh forwards, and generally because he had good ball to run on to.

Bluesman

He went through Dan for Australia's FIRST TRY you'll see it here on the Utube highlights about 1.00 min onwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ethzxUxfREg&feature=related

And yes he did have the upper hand against Lydiate from the base of the scrum and in mauls and rucks particularly 1st and 3rd tests

rugbydreamer wrote:guys, just a reminder it isn't acceptable on here to mock other's for their spelling and grammar, in fact that's just down right rude. Treat others as you would wish to be treated please. Thanks.

Thank you dreamer! But I not mind so much. I know my grammar not so good! And not take offending.

My mind on Wales is just need more experience on the close game with big stakes to get the mature to get the win. All the great side of history go through the phase of close loss!

So because Higginbotham and Sharped pushed over Lydiate from 1 metre out Higginbotham hammered him. You show me a single player who can take 2 forwards on and push them backwards. That part of your is defunct

How does a 6 show up an opposit 6 at the base of the scrum, infact what does a 6 do at the base of scrum...? Seriously tell me!

Also Mauls, like scrums are very much a team/unit area. One player cannot make any impact on another player 1 on 1.

Again the rucks are generally a unit area, except for the fetchers, the rucks were a mess, and held a clear advantage for the SH teams.

You are talking tripe regarding Lydiate and Higginbotham.

Higginbottom was superb for the Aussies, he really showed what a fine player he is and what he will inevitably become. However, he did not outplay Lydiate. Lydiate was our best player imo. He hardly missed a tackle and made them at crucial periods, i.e. in our 22 when the Aussies were hammering us in the 1st and 2nd tests.

Ryan and 1/2p were our best players for me but Lydiate was well up there. Higginbotham edged it in the battle of the 6's for me but I thought he was exceptional. Doesn't mean Lydiate played badly at all.

rugbydreamer wrote:Ryan and 1/2p were our best players for me but Lydiate was well up there. Higginbotham edged it in the battle of the 6's for me but I thought he was exceptional. Doesn't mean Lydiate played badly at all.

Oh my god, completely forgot about 1/2p, I agree he was by far our best player and is staking a claim for the Lions 15 jersey. Ryan played well, he was in form for the O's and carried it through. I

dreamer

Gotta say Ryan really went well, he managed to cope with the wrestle at the breakdown much better than falatau, and really deserved his try, but do you think he's the better option come the AI's?

No I like Ryan as our super sub, although I wouldn't be unhappy if he starts for us. He's had an absolutely fantastic season. I want to know really how long into the match it was when Faletau injured his hand because bless him he just wasn't himself. If he keeps playing well for the Dragons though I'd have him back in I think, or at least on the bench.

Hey bluesman always think of you as one poster who can discuss without getting abusive

So you are tellinmg you don't understand why and how blindsides face off to each other at the scrum?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=rugby+union+positions&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=J5__R3fwUib8DM:&imgrefurl=http://explow.com/rugby_union&docid=2rymQDCmFDlZYM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Empty_rugby_union_line_up.JPG&w=390&h=560&ei=c23nT-u-HYa50QXalsX_CA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=176&vpy=276&dur=1414&hovh=269&hovw=187&tx=137&ty=182&sig=112695868586942233803&page=2&tbnh=147&tbnw=102&start=21&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:21,i:189

I played back three for 30 years (and got to a reasonable level), and blindside for most of that time, so where do you want me to start with your comments

At the scrum flankers face off at each other in particular blindside (the very term should help you realise they spring blind from the base), their role is premarily is to protect the half backs space, albeit the modern approach is left or right this is not how Wales operate....... do you agree?

With this in mind Higginsbottom took Lydiates space time and time again.... Lydiate was very slow off the mark particularly in the 1st test, and I'll say it again whilst he might have made many stops, he was very much second best to Higginsbottom IMHO

Of course all apects of play are a team game but in the ruck particularly Pocock (of Warbs) but moreover Higginsbottom (of Lydiate) were in control. The result was Wales gave pens away in that area, not Lydiate directly but certainly due to his lack of pace and presence in that area

Probably agree. Really annoyed Delve wasn't given a chance though!!!

He injured his knee in the mid-week match I thought?

FHF

You don't have to explain what a blindside is and what they do, I coach at a decent level, my point is blindsides have very little to do with each other at the scrum, except try to block each others path, and in no way could Higginbotham do that with the rate of knots he was travelling back (most resulting in a penalty)

At which ruck did Lydiate and Higginbotham go one on one on an even footing and he lose?

Don't get me started on the penalty count at the breakdown, I don't want to get into another SH interpretation row!!!

Ps I have personally tested Lydiate over 5/10/20 and 40 metres, including a yo yo test, and vertical jump test and he rates amongst the top back rowers in the world (excluding most 7's), he ia very quick and explosive, infact it's his strength.

So no, Higginbotham was good, but in no way did he get the upper hand over Lydiate in a personal battle, of which if your blindside is in a personal battle he's a poor blindside!

Ok

lets agree to disagree.......... no you will disagree with all the reports throughout the rugby world Higginbottom was the better of the two Blindsides

I have never heard those questions before (albeit I have never coached) but I did get to a reasonable level in Scotland and never heard anyone not telling me the importance of negating the blindside threat.

I suggest you watch the first test again, not attempting to be disrespectful to you, but watch it and tell me that Lydiate was anywhere close to his opposite number

Have you tested Shingler, and Turnbull?............. I would say Lydiate is not as quick as some regional blindsides, I would say his strength is his positioning at the tackle area, his upper body strength, his arm strength at the breakdown

However I do know the conditioning coach, I am sure I could get the stats to compare with you

Well to be fair, Danny was playing on one fit leg whilst Higginbotham had two, hardly a fair contest or comparison. I'd say Higginbotham should be a bit embarrassed Danny played almost equal to him if I'm honest

Adam or Ryan?!

I havn't worked with Shinglar or Turnbull, but unless they are extremely quick, and I would be surprised if either are, they can't compare with Ltdiate.

Also Lydiates upper body and arm strength is part of his weakness in my view, and always has been, hence why his tackle technique is so good and low, because he's had to been.

IMO Lydiate was near MOTM in the first test, single handedly saved wales try after try!!!

And just for the record, I am not a Lydiate is god poster, I think he was good but not spectacular in the 6N, but in the 1st and 2nd test he was excellent.

Shingler is incredibly quick, much more so than Lydiate sorry bluesman. see his try for the Scarlets away v Castres. Incredible pace to him

I think you'd be surprised dreamer...

But I will go and check to see if I can find some testing results for comparison!

rugbydreamer wrote:Well to be fair, Danny was playing on one fit leg whilst Higginbotham had two, hardly a fair contest or comparison. I'd say Higginbotham should be a bit embarrassed Danny played almost equal to him if I'm honest

On a personal level Lydiate seems like a real nice young man, he comes across as a real gentleman in the interviews, and is always smiling. Of course his consistent performances over the last 12 months has earned him respect throughout the rugby world, he is a class player, and if we had him wow what a back three we would have

8. Denton
7. Rennie
6. Lydiate

Now that is an awesome back three!!!

Was he carrying a knock?

rugbydreamer wrote:guys, just a reminder it isn't acceptable on here to mock other's for their spelling and grammar, in fact that's just down right rude. Treat others as you would wish to be treated please. Thanks.

Eh, 'guys' should be spelt with a capital G at the beginning of a sentence. And others does not have an apostrophe. Other than that I completely agree with you. It's just downright rude.

Shingler is like 6 ft 6/7 isn't he? That helps him but I think allot of the Wales boys could do with focussing on basic skills than lifting weights. Lydiate shows a good tackling technique can be very effective rather pure muscular strength.

flyhalffactory wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:Well to be fair, Danny was playing on one fit leg whilst Higginbotham had two, hardly a fair contest or comparison. I'd say Higginbotham should be a bit embarrassed Danny played almost equal to him if I'm honest

On a personal level Lydiate seems like a real nice young man, he comes across as a real gentleman in the interviews, and is always smiling. Of course his consistent performances over the last 12 months has earned him respect throughout the rugby world, he is a class player, and if we had him wow what a back three we would have

8. Denton
7. Rennie
6. Lydiate

Now that is an awesome back three!!!

Was he carrying a knock?

He's been due an ankle op for months, he really shouldn't have travelled. Did you miss all the extensive strapping he's had on his foot in all three tests?!