Welsh Deficiencies

What are Wales' deficiencies? What do Wales need to improve on to reach the next level? Heres my take on it:

Dynamism: Wales' forwards are not dynamic enough in all areas of the field. Yes, players are no longer dwarfed by our english/southern hemisphere counterparts but the term "size" is often shown too much respect. What Wales have gained in "Size" they have lost in dynamism. Numerous times have big fowards made it to the breakdown late and the damage has already been done.

Wales need to increase the speed and power of there forwards to see improvements at the breakdown and in the tight. Maul & pick and go defence would improve as a result.

If you watch SA, NZ or OZ there forwards are equal to or even smaller than ours. But what they are able to do is take the ball at pace or explode from the base of rucks to make yards and get tacklers and defenders on the back foot. Wales need to look at this.

Basic Skills: Wales' backline are now capable of soft hands and good, flat, quick, passing. It is no secret that these players need quick ball in open play or solid set pieces to work off. Without this it is a waste. I would like to see our backs also improve their speed that has been lost with "size".

Lineouts: Come on. Matthew Rees should be shot. Get owens and Bennett back in.

Kick offs (recieving): Wales need to practice kick offs until they are sick of it. Basic errors have been occuring here with Wales for the last 10 years and it is costing points. This facet of the game must be perfected.

Kicking: I am sick of seeing Wales kick deep or with a lack of height. These kicks are not being executed well enough and our players in key positions need to improve this part of their game (9,10, 15, 11 and 14). Wingers must also be more interested in chasing the ball as do the team. Pressure must be placed on the opposition and they can't keep giving "Free Ball" to return with interest downfield.

For me the worst thing I have seen from Wales is there refusal to get the ball off the park into the stands. I understand they back their fitness but when under pressure in their own 22 there is no better safety than the stands. Wales continually fed Australia ball. Phillips, halfpenny, both wings and priestland would be better set to hit the touchline and set their defence again in these instances.

The rest of the gameplan would improve dramatically if these facets were improved. Huge strides have been made but more still needed.

The management also need to trust their squad/bench to make an impact. I would like to see players such as Gethin, A Jones etc. replaced earlier when fatigue is clearly affecting them!

Agree in particular with your earlier points - Wales need momentum at the breakdown and around the fringes, backed up by quick, incisive ball to the backs.

I can't quite understand how people are so impressed by your back row and by Phillips. Yes they have their strengths but their main job is to achieve the above and they are not.

Do you think we tend to not kick into touch as our line out is very hit and miss? I agreed with what you say about the SH exploding into the tackle where as ours tens to accept the tackle. I think they do this to try and protect the ball. The only problem is I think it make it more difficult as the opposing side can counter ruck more easily as they are not on the back foot. This was/is compounded at the moment with Phillips slow service and arrival to the ruck

Wi11- I would say Warburton IS an outstanding player on form. Dan Lydiate is also unreal and seems to be respected hugely down south.

Toby faletau and phillips have been disappointed by while they have I cant help but feel some players in the forwards have struggled hugely with fatigue.

Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Alyn Wyn, Bradley Davies, Warburton and Rees looked jaded. My problem was we have talked about this strength in depth and we haven't used it at all on this tour.

I would like to see more of Craig Mitchel, Justin Tupuric, Rhys Gill, Ian Evans used for Wales.

In addition to my post above I thought AWJ did a good job at carrying the ball yesterday but struggled with his restarts. Saying the priestland seems to bring out J Roberts carrying power and I think we missed him during this series. Maybe he takes the pressure off priestland and that allows RP to relax a bit more

Sheephead: Yes our lineout was weak. What I am talking about though mate is a scenario like this that occured several times and lead to OZ points.

Scenario: Oz are attacking in wales 22, turnover ball. The ball is secure at the base of a ruck. No counter from OZ. Phillips feeds or boxes and the kick is infield.

This now presents the opposing team with attacking ball. They attack and score a try or we give a penalty away.

That happened too many times. Get the ball off the park and set the defence should be the only play at this point.

If the kick is contestable it is fine but..... 9/10 times where teams are attacking deep in your 22 and you turn over the ball it is very difficult to turn defence into attack via a kick. The ball has to go off field.

On the dynamism point Wales seem to lack pace and power now. Would like to see more in the forwards.

Sheep: Definitely, Roberts is a huge loss. Would like to see priestland play flatter and attack the line too....he did that more yesterday and Wales played much better!

Permi: im agree with you butty. I was just guessing as to why they do it. The only problem is I can't see a quick fix as all the regions have poor line outs too???

I can understand some of your reasons. However in regards to our forwards not being fast enough getting to breakdowns it's mostly to do with forwards picking and going without support and getting isolated. I watch a lot of SH rugby and Wales really need to start thinking about the game more. They keep isolating them selves and the kicking game is terrible. They have been told to keep the ball on the park and rely on their fitness. Something Gatland keeps mentioning. However you need to make kicks work for you. Just booting a ball downfield is not intellegent rugby. Case and point, if halfpenny had kicked to touch when Wales needed to clear their lines and not to the back 3 Aus wouldn't have scored the try in the last test.

When we get quick ball and play simple but effective rugby we look dangerous but we are relying on this kick and push technique which is limiting our time on the ball.

I agree the forwards need to be more agressive, take a lesson from the 3rd test between NZ and Ireland.

Finally support play. No options for runners with the ball, until we start playing like the SH teams on attack we won't beat them.

Permian88 wrote:Wi11- I would say Warburton IS an outstanding player on form. Dan Lydiate is also unreal and seems to be respected hugely down south.

Toby faletau and phillips have been disappointed by while they have I cant help but feel some players in the forwards have struggled hugely with fatigue.

Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Alyn Wyn, Bradley Davies, Warburton and Rees looked jaded. My problem was we have talked about this strength in depth and we haven't used it at all on this tour.

I would like to see more of Craig Mitchel, Justin Tupuric, Rhys Gill, Ian Evans used for Wales.

Warburton is capable of outstanding, but not having an outstanding time of it at the moment. For me Lydiate is nothing special, there are dozens of flankers out there who can make plenty of tackles whilst offering more go-forward than Lydiate. Faletau likewise I feel has been talked up for doing stuff that every decent no. 8 does. Phillips is an unusual player who poses an obvious threat on his own, but doesn't give quick ball to the (even more threatening) players outside him. Is it too late for him to improve that?

I'm not at all familiar with Tipuric. Can he carry well? I'd be interested to see a back row of R Jones, Warbs, Tipuric in some combination. You might find you don't miss Lydiate / Faletau much at all.

Impossible: Yeah thats a very true point as well. Bradley davies did it numerous times. They seem to accept the tackle. Id like to see them hit up (from low to high) more.

As far as support lines go you need look no further than the ozzies for being the best in the business. James O;connor, digby Ioane etc. are always on the shoulders of the ball carrier.

Wales needed to get there wingers in the game more, either carrying or supporting!

Wi11- I understand your point about Lydiate. What I will say in his defence is that he does stop opposition go forward and can see he doesnt carry a great deal.

Warburton at 8 is something I was interested in seeing. 6) Lydiate
7) Tupuric and 8) Warburton. With Faletau on the bench. Faletau struggled and looked like he needed a rest. Could be a destructive player from the bench? R Jones also...

I agree with Impossible Standards. It's about not getting isolated. I just re-watched the NZ v Ireland game and was impressed with the way the all blacks 'hunt in packs'. What I mean is that there always seems to be a swarm of players near the man with the ball in hand. They're then immediately on hand to clear out the ruck so the scrum half can get the ball away quickly. Is this the 'pod' system? If so, it's very effective and helps to produce quick ball. Wales do the opposite of the pod system where they have one man go off on a run and throw few into the ruck in the hope that they will have extra numbers in the back line to create an overlap! Net result is turnover at worst or slow ruck ball at best.

I think this also makes Phillips look bad. I'm always screaming at him to get the ball away quickly but the ruck is such a mess that the ball is not well presented and he has to go digging. That said, I do think a change at scrum half to someone with more zip like Webb would solve a lot of our problems. We're a fast team being slowed down by our poor rucking and slow delivery. Speed it up and I think we'll cause teams a lot more problems.

Yes Griff it's about staying together in packs so not to get isolated and generate quick ball. The NZ teams are the best at this and you can see it in the Super 15. The other option it gives is an offload option to continue a move as support is next to the ball carrier. We in Wales seem to be concentrating more on ruck setting than support and at times we seem to struggle.

I agree with what others are saying about our backrow however I think the game plan that they are using is the reason why we are looking a bit ordinary at the moment. We had glimpses of good ball in hand play from Wales over the 3 series and this is when we looked dangerous, but it wasn't often enough.

I'm not sure how to take this...

Dynamism = BULLS**** The Wales team of old were smaller and less fit than their English counterparts, but this isn't dynamism! I know from experience that Warbs, Lydiate test as high as any backrower in the world, AWJ and Davies also compare with the best locks in the world, and Gethin is renowned for being the most dynamic prop in world rugby!
Wales breakdown problem are certainly not because the pack aren't dynamic enough.

There is not a team in the world who picks and go's any more explosively than Wales, infact I'd say Davies is one of the very best at picking and breaking the first up tackle.

Basic skills. EVERY TEAM needs quick ball, or a solid set peice, not just Wales, and speed is not a basic skill. RE. speed, when was the last time you saw North, Cuthbert or 1/2p lacking in this area?! Roberts isn't a sprinter but he doesn't have to be, it's not like he's targeted.

Lineouts. BENNET REALLY?! Rees had a very bad day at the office, but when he doesn't it's something else that goes wrong, the lineout is very technical, and numerous things go wrong.

Restarts. Wales restart ability was perfect, it was individual errors by the same player who gave the ball away on every occasion. Wales set their pack, then their pod, the lift was good but it was mishandled by AWJ!

Kicking. Wales kick chase game is a tactic, they performed it all year not just these Aus games. Kick long, chase into the opposition half and mob the ball. Wingers don't chase individually in our game plan, they are a part of the line.

The gameplan involves keeping the ball in play for longer periods, trusting the defencive line and live off opposition mistakes, if you are going to commit to it you have to fully commit! If we are in our own 22 we have to stay commited to the set plan, or kicking to touch allows the opposition to rest and breathe AND keep the pressure on, keeping the ball infield keeps their forwards focused for much longer periods than they are used to.

I'm not saying the gameplan is perfect, but it has got us to a point where we are on the brink of beating SH teams, in their own back yards regularly. We could've won the series V Aus had we been better/luckier at the death of both games, when was the last time we cam away from Aus disapointed at 3 very narrow defeats?!

bluesman--- we very rarely get the ball back when we kick down field to the opposition, this tactic is not working, the opposition love this ping pong, everyone else seems to benefit from this tactic except wales, anyone explain why???

we are going nowhere, we have to change the way we play, and we need thinkers on the park who are not afraid to lose their place by making a decision for themselves and chucking the game plan if its not working.

thats why rp is still at 10, regardless of the game, he follows the plan even if its not working and we are losing. HELP,HELP, somebody tell it like it is, there are players going through the motions and still getting picked!!!!!

hibbard blamed for maul collapse, you're out boy. rp lost us the last (2?) game, carry on son ( do as rob tells you and you will stay in the squad.)

howley said this week he found no problem with rp kicking the ball away in the last min of the 2nd test. unbelievable!!!! howley should go, we need and deserve better.

In last 5 of the 3rd match, Hook kicked downfield and the ball trickled into touch near the Oz line. Their linout, but we if keep the pressure on, they will kick for touch, giving us position inside their half, allowing us to go through the phases and attack the line, have a shot at a drop etc.

What happens? We lose composure, Bradley gets way offside, so a penalty to Oz. Funnily enough, Oz choose to go through the phases, not kick away possession, and we don't get another sniff of the ball.

To my mind, the Bradley penalty was on a par with Hibbard, since the maul collapse was harsh.

There was only one deficiency I saw on this tour, and that was the fact that we had a southern hemisphere referee for all three tests. I konw I will probably get a kicking over this, but if we had a northern hemisphere referee I bet Wales would have won the series down under, southern hemisphere refs will always favour a southern hemisphere side, they are more familiar with each other and do not get me started on the fnal test, everytime Wales were attacking in the Aussie 22 he seemed to ping Wales at the breakdown but for some reason he was letting Australia get away with the same things on their ball.

Our back row have proved that when all on form and fit they are certainly a match if not better than their counterparts in the NH.

Even as a Dragons fan I was disappointed with Faletau and they way Lydiate puts himself about his body must be in bits.

Warburton was on the recovery phase from inury.

I think it lies more in the decisions by Howley (loyalty or not) to not pick the form players.

His hand was forced by Tobys injury and Ryan Jones again proved he's far from the scrap heap and I would have started with Tipuric on Saturday, despite Sam having his best 40 minutes.

There is a Lack of strength in depth at prop, especially as Jenkins and Jones are not young.

Exiled,

I think we are (or will) be ok at L/Head. James is a better scrummager than Jenkins but not as dynamic round park, Gill looks to have what it takes and I would have liked to see him get some decent game time.

T/Head, well thats another matter all together, Mitchell is injured but has not impressed me, trying to convert R Jones is not fair on him at his age. I would really have loved one of the Regions to bring Lewis Roberts in as he's just a beast.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Dynamism = BULLS**** The Wales team of old were smaller and less fit than their English counterparts, but this isn't dynamism! I know from experience that Warbs, Lydiate test as high as any backrower in the world, AWJ and Davies also compare with the best locks in the world, and Gethin is renowned for being the most dynamic prop in world rugby!
Wales breakdown problem are certainly not because the pack aren't dynamic enough.

There is not a team in the world who picks and go's any more explosively than Wales, infact I'd say Davies is one of the very best at picking and breaking the first up tackle.

You and I must have watched different Test series. When we were in the Wallabies' 22 in the second half on Saturday, there was almost no urgency whatsoever amongst the forwards. Everything was done slowly. No one ran on to the ball. The one time we picked up the pace and showed some urgency, Ryan Jones scored his try. But the rest of the time we lumbered (your man Bradley Davies in particular).

What I really want to say here, though, is that I've had enough of us being sent out to play with the aim of staying in the game so that we're still in it with ten minutes left to play. It's about time we took off the shackles and went out with the aim of having the game won by then, irrespective of who we're playing.

That's the spirit Lucky.

The Wallabies must have been kicking themselves with delight that this Wales side didn't grab the games by the scruff of the neck (happened in one game but then they let Aus come back) and put more scoreboard pressure on the opposition. That was our greatest fear.

That first 20 mins on Saturday seemed very slow - an arm wrestle as each team tried their darnedest to make a clean break... but the ref actually helped slow the game down.

I don't think panic or blame is needed now. You have a solid core of some very talented players. You just need your best XV on the park at the same time. Apart from an unlucky bounce or 2 (no need to mention the ref) you could have been celebrating a 2-1 comeback win.

Also, 11/3 = 3.67 points margin over 3 tests away. That's closer than we would have liked!

It's a good sign that we're so disappointed with how the series has panned out. Not so long ago we would have been man sausage-a-hoop with running the Wallabies so close.

Just corrected my maths above... I'd added previous games.

I ignored the maths - it would have given me a headache.

Exiledinborders wrote:There is a Lack of strength in depth at prop, especially as Jenkins and Jones are not young.

Show me a side that has a depth of quality props. We have a few decent options in the ranks. It's Ireland who will struggle, their best prop is better in the loose than in the scrum

I hope now that the props from the U20s can make the break through to Regional level then on to the National side.

Rhys Gill should be taking over from Gethin Jenkins sooner rather than later.

Well he's at the Blues next season isn't he? so I guess he will be getting a high level of game time under the selectors noses so I would hope so to.

Has he signed for the Blues? I didn't know that.

Pretty sure he has or maybe it was just rumours. Any Blues fans care to confirm.

All our U20 props looked the business at the U20 world cup, Samson Lee was like a wrecking ball.

I think I remember the Dragons were looking at him again but the Blues snapped him up.

And Samson Lee was awesome.

He also has an awesome name!

I'm pretty sure Gill has re-signed for Saracens for another season - the Blues have Hobbs to play next season...

Yes Samson Lee was never going to an outside half just keep him away from the barbers chair.

Good to see the under 20's outscrummaging the Argentinians (and NZ twice) pity it takes longer for props to establish themselves at senior level than any other position and being good or brilliant even at this level is not necessarily a sign that you can make the transition but something towork with hopefully.