Selection of the Lions captain - a different approach

First topic message reminder :

Before everyone piles in to nominate BOD or Sam or whoever, stop and read my reasoning.

The very act of appointing a captain creates a hostage to fortune in that the captain becomes un-droppable (save injury or malicious targeting).

Way back in 1983, there were two rivals for the captaincy - Peter Wheeler (England) and Ciaran Fitzgerald (Ireland) and basically came down to a head-to-head in the closing game of the five nations 1983 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Five_Nations_Championship ). Ireland won the game leaving England with the wooden spoon. Fitzgerald was made Lions captain and Wheeler was left out of the squad. Both of the contenders were hookers.

On the tour the Lions were walloped 4-0 by the ABs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_British_Lions_tour_to_New_Zealand ). But the general opinion at the time was that Colin Deans (Scotland) was the best hooker in the Lions squad - but Fitzgerald was untouchable.


My proposal is to (like in the Ryder Cup) appoint a non-playing captain. If (say) BOD doesn't have a great next nine months, he'd be a suitable candidate. Failing that - maybe Shane Williams? Someone who the Lions will respect for their achievements and leadership qualities.

But that would allow the manager to select his team from the best players available unconstrained by the demands of having to select his nominated player captain.

POC is finished after his hamstring I thought. Warburton will end up as a starter and captain if Gatland is coach due to the style of play as Hardie, Tipuric and SOB are better options for a faster, more open game plan. Interesting thought is if Armitage got picked as a Lion even though he does not play for England.

For me, it all comes down to who your starters likely are and the captains within that group. In the front row, if Best starts, Hartley is out. The second rows at the moment are going to be some mix of Grayx2, Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury and AWJ. Only AWJ and J Gray are captain material in that group. Back row options for captaincy are Robshaw (arguably the form 6 at the moment), Warburton or Heaslip (who would be picked solely to be captain). Scrum half options are Laidlaw or Youngs. No 10's inspire and outside backs struggle as captains I feel.

I would go for AWJ simply because he is the closest to making it on merit of any player I think would be a good captain. Warburton would be secondary as he suits Gatland ball and may get the starting nod. I doubt it would happen in real life. If Schmidt or Jones were coach, I could see AWJ or Laidlaw.

There could be a very strong argument for Itoje as captain come the Lions.

I think we'll have to wait and see on that one. Very good young player, but still early days. We should have a better idea once we see how he handles the big end of season games with Sarries, Australia in the summer and the AIs.

funnyExiledScot wrote:One of the Irish posters on here told me that on the last Lions tour POC threw a sulk over team selection for the 3rd Test and threatened not to show up to support the team.

If that's true it sets an awful example and should rule him out of future Lions involvement.

I think he was out for lunch and having a good time and got delayed coming back and nearly missed the bus. Don't think there was any sulking involved.

Sin é wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:One of the Irish posters on here told me that on the last Lions tour POC threw a sulk over team selection for the 3rd Test and threatened not to show up to support the team.

If that's true it sets an awful example and should rule him out of future Lions involvement.

I think he was out for lunch and having a good time and got delayed coming back and nearly missed the bus. Don't think there was any sulking involved.

Christ...when you do all the calculating and totting up, we truly are very different peoples on these two islands in the North Atlantic. I mean we always get told how similar we all really are, the differences sometimes hit you like a brick - and you say, we're hardly on the same planet.

Sin é wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:One of the Irish posters on here told me that on the last Lions tour POC threw a sulk over team selection for the 3rd Test and threatened not to show up to support the team.

If that's true it sets an awful example and should rule him out of future Lions involvement.

I think he was out for lunch and having a good time and got delayed coming back and nearly missed the bus. Don't think there was any sulking involved.

That sounds more likely. I had previously been informed that his being late was linked to the team selection and his disapproval thereof, which for me would have been a big black mark. It has unfavourable parallels to the comments McGeechan made regarding Leonard in 1997, who upon discovering that he would not be selected threw 100% support behind those who were.

Still, perhaps the previous information I received was of a Lord Dowlais sort of accuracy level.....

I should add that I say all this as a massive fan of POC and his contributions to Munster, Ireland and the Lions. My Lions dreamteam would comprise a boiler room of Johnson and POC.

POC was injured and asked to stay on the tour. He did say that when a team is selected the team selected kind of retreats into a bubble preparing themselves and the rest of the lads do other things (like going off for a boozy* lunch that went on a bit too long)!

That is just not POC to do something like that. When he could have been disappointed over the Ireland captaincy which went to BOD (when Kidney took over Ireland and people were saying POC would be captain), BOD said that POC went to him and told him that he would have all his support etc.

I don't think POC and BOD are that friendly, but a lot of respect there.

*I don't know if there was booze involved. Think he was a guest at some rugby club lunch.

AWJ and Hartley are the mostly likely to start captain material.

I'm a bog fan of Robshaw and would start him atm, just wouldn't have him as captain.

Warburton, Best, POM, Sexton, Stander, would be the only others I would consider. I really don't see Laidlaw touring tbh.

If AWJ is still viewed as a starting lock for the Lions next summer I'll be stunned

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think we'll have to wait and see on that one. Very good young player, but still early days. We should have a better idea once we see how he handles the big end of season games with Sarries, Australia in the summer and the AIs.

True but there'll be enough players in the pack alone to pick a captain rather than having to pick a captain due to no choices among those making up the pack. Hope that makes sense???