Wimbledon Day 2, or Day 1b

First topic message reminder :

Well having enjoyed good weather throughout the first days play it feels a bit weird to have matches carried over into the second day. Imagine where the event will be if there's rain!!

Anyway, today is traditionally Ladies Day, or perhaps in 2012 it might be called Drama Queens Day, for reasons I don't fully understand

Nadal and Murray enter the fray after yesterdays routine wins for Federer and Djokovic. Isner and Berdych bit the dust yesterday; any surprises in store?

Granted lydian but that match is still a long way off yet and both players have to get there first.

I think movement on this surface is more of a refined art than on the hard courts. And it's a Slam

Mentally, not many players can cope with an 'on song' Murray returning game for the best of 5 sets

I dont disagree...he's not solid #4 in the world for nothing...

lydian wrote:Raonic is a handful on these lush courts!

Based on?

2nd round casualty last year.

banbrotam wrote:I think movement on this surface is more of a refined art than on the hard courts. And it's a Slam

Mentally, not many players can cope with an 'on song' Murray returning game for the best of 5 sets

Many don't have to do the 5.

lydian wrote:Oh I agree there...but it will put Murray's 2nd under pressure as yoy know if you go a break down against a guy Raonic its not good news.

Dead right. I have him making the quarters at least.

Edit; do I get credit for saying "lush" first? It's going to be the Word of the tournament.

lol BB...your lushness!

LK, Raonic is still young, 12 mths is a long time in a 21yr olds development.
Based on his 145 mph serve on a quick surface!

lydian wrote:lol BB...your lushness!

LK, Raonic is still young, 12 mths is a long time in a 21yr olds development.
Based on his 145 mph serve on a quick surface!

We are talking Wimbledon Grass!!

He is going to need more than that serve if he is to progress into the 2nd week.

Serve alone won't win him the match against Murray. Clearly his returning isn't superb as Murray's and neither is his movement. Should be a very interesting match if it comes to pass that is.

Q. When you think about the last several years, the domination of the slams of you three guys, what do you think have been the biggest factors for that domination?

ROGER FEDERER: I don't know. I guess mental, physical, and talent, putting those three things together. It is incredible to what degree we have been able to not only win the slams, but also in the Masters 1000s.

I think you can include Andy Murray to those as well obviously because he's won a ton of those. It seems like it's really hard for other players to break through really on a slam level or a Masters 1000 level.

It's interesting. It gives great ‑ how shall I say ‑ it shows how solid we've been over the last years, how hard it is to break through, but how hard it is to stay at the top.

I put it down to hard work, talent, and again the mental and physical abilities to also win on poorer days.


http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/interviews/2012-06-25/201206251340646854700.html

bogbrush wrote:

banbrotam wrote:I think movement on this surface is more of a refined art than on the hard courts. And it's a Slam

Mentally, not many players can cope with an 'on song' Murray returning game for the best of 5 sets

Many don't have to do the 5.

But you have to do 3, i.e. thwart Murray for a couple of hours in say straight sets. Not certain how Raonic will cope once an on form Murray got hold of his serve. Of course he's got more to his game, but big servers have rarely troubled the No.4 if he's with it mentally

It'd be a close game, but I think Murray would do it in 4

Also, I still think Raonic is prone to the inconsistency of those not used to stringing a few 5 set games together and wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even get into the last 16 - not certain that he's a definite for getting past Cilic

I would say as well that his returning can't be devilish otherwise his set wins V Giraldo would be more comprehensive than 6-4 would they not? Obviously, a talent but needs work doing on various aspects of his game.

We'll have to see...if they meet. We know Raonic is a work in progress which is a scary thing. Andy at 25 isn't going to get much better and that 2nd serve, and FH, at crunch moments is always going to be his Achilles heel. It's just a matter of whether Raonic can exploit that more than Murray can exploit Milos' movement and inexperience/shot selection. If Raonic is to occupy the upper echelons of the game these are the times we need to see him making strides forward.

lydian wrote:We'll have to see...if they meet. We know Raonic is a work in progress which is a scary thing. Andy at 25 isn't going to get much better and that 2nd serve, and FH, at crunch moments is always going to be his Achilles heel. It's just a matter of whether Raonic can exploit that more than Murray can exploit Milos' movement and inexperience/shot selection. If Raonic is to occupy the upper echelons of the game these are the times we need to see him making strides forward.

You're more or less saying what I am. If Andy brings his 'A' game then he wins. Currently, Raonic's weaknesses are greater than Murray's. Unsurprising, given their respective age difference. It would be interesting to see if Roanic can become a No.1 with such a relatively lack of movement - I see a Del Potro type career i.e. certain Slam winner but not canny enough against the very best at their best

Of course if it's the Murray that turned up during their one meeting, then then Raonic has a great chance - but as we all know that wasn't an 'A' performance from Murray

If his returning game is on - I don't fear him against anyone other than Fed, who I see still being the one with the best serve, certainly the best disguise. However, then we ask ourselves is his serve goo enough against the two other best returners in the game

I suppose that's why he's No.4

Have to say, that it might be an idea to see if these two actually meet first

[quote="banbrotam"]

lydian wrote:

Have to say, that it might be an idea to see if these two actually meet first

Good point. In all the Masters and slam tournaments he has entered he has reached the 4th Round once in 23 attempts.

laverfan wrote:Q. When you think about the last several years, the domination of the slams of you three guys, what do you think have been the biggest factors for that domination?

ROGER FEDERER: I don't know. I guess mental, physical, and talent, putting those three things together. It is incredible to what degree we have been able to not only win the slams, but also in the Masters 1000s.

I think you can include Andy Murray to those as well obviously because he's won a ton of those. It seems like it's really hard for other players to break through really on a slam level or a Masters 1000 level.

It's interesting. It gives great ‑ how shall I say ‑ it shows how solid we've been over the last years, how hard it is to break through, but how hard it is to stay at the top.

I put it down to hard work, talent, and again the mental and physical abilities to also win on poorer days.

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/interviews/2012-06-25/201206251340646854700.html

Excellent, quote by Roger, can't agree much with what he is saying. And very nice of him to acknowledge Andy there. Rog is winning easily so he is in a good mood in the post match pressers.

I also worry about two things with Raonic that I think will greatly limit his ability to be the best. For one is his movement and the second is his returning. I have to echo what Craig and Banbro are saying in that on grass movement is paramount. That is why guys like Mac, Borg, Fed, Nadal, and Djoko have so much success on grass and the big huge guys who also have big serves traditionally don't do as well. What we are witnessing with Raonic is probably as fast as he ever is going to be.

In terms of return the big tall guys usually lack the explosive first lateral step needed in returning and also get jambed easily when they try to step in and take it early. How well he addresses these two issues will determine how far he will go.

The only player with Raonic type height that is real top 10 quality is DPot, the rest of the giants are far away from getting into the list. Hewitt showed in Aus just how important it is to be quick and nimble, plenty of stuff to improve on Milos.

Del Po moves pretty well for a big guy and returns really well for a big guy JM.

Where does Raonic train? Hopefully its Monaco or Spain, if he's training in US/Canada then his return game will never be good enough.

Come on JM, you always make outlandish statements. You can learn returning serve in canada or the US Djokovic learned it in serbia. The chinese girl Na learned it in China. I hold out hope for Milos he has very good and smooth strokes and technique. But I don't think he will ever dominate the tour.

Reckon he should practise more on the clay to get used to longer rallies, they don't have much clay in North America right? Nearly every court is still on hard.