Watson v Robson

First topic message reminder :

Heather Watson and Laura Robson both put on a strong show in the first round at Wimbledon. Robson losing in three sets to Schiavone and Watson winning in two against Benesova. They are close in age with Watson the oldest by 19 months. Both have also won junior slam titles. Robson at Wimbledon and Watson at the US Open. They have just been chosen to play doubles in the Olympics.

Who is the best prospect for British tennis. The consensus appears to be Robson but my suspicion is that it's Watson. Robson is taller and looks more powerful but IMO she lacks variety. I also sense she may suffer a bit from getting down on herself when things don't go well. Watson has more variety in her game and also has a sunny disposition. To me she looks by far the strongest mentally.

Who is the best prospect for British tennis?

I'm not saying that at all. There is no guarantee that being in the best shape you can be guarantees results or means you will win slams, it's only part of a training regime.
It goes against logic to say that being out of shape is good preparation though, don't you think?

Look how Djokovic turned it round. He wasn't anywhere near in as good shape before he started winning slams. Murray also looks a sensational athlete compared to when he started the tour.

But conversely, i've seen no evidence that carrying extra weight could be good for energy reserves/movement and sharpness. How could it be?

Look at Nalbandian, he's out of shape, and his career has clearly suffered because of it.

Women's tennis will always produce winners of all shapes and sizes as talent is the most important factor , however improving/conditioning/dropping extra weight might help the players with less talent to bridge the gap.
Hard to argue that that wouldn' t be prudent.

How are Kvitova and Watson out of shape? They're not. Your calling them fat and your not actually in a position to measure it against anything because you haven't provided any measures for them to be judged against!

Djokovic changed his diet. Was he fat? No. Also he went through a period of changing his service action. Also his slef belief increased with his Davis Cup victory. So please try to incorporate all the factors.

Nalbandian has been suffering with injuries for 4 years. So not being able to play would affect fitness don't you think.

You're struggling here because you have no measures. Maybe if you provided some examples, people might agree with your logic. For me it is empty ramblings without any real throught process behind it.

jesus christ!!!!

Kvitova and Watson arent fat at all, this is ridiclous, some attempted trolling from realist??

Not trolling at all. I just find it surprising that they are a "little" out of shape given the small percentages between success and failure in this sport.

Why wouldn't you wan't to be in the best shape possible?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=kvitova+fat&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=833&bih=572&tbm=isch&tbnid=KawQHOo68_AheM:&imgrefurl=http://www.erikzona.com/why-are-so-many-top-women-tennis-players-fat/&docid=mwvwTp-6lyti1M&imgurl=http://www.erikzona.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/06petra.jpg&w=307&h=450&ei=ViXsT_P3Ks7ZsgaFhazXBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=87&vpy=103&dur=2568&hovh=272&hovw=185&tx=135&ty=158&sig=117611473321078114351&page=1&tbnh=119&tbnw=78&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:73

Your proof is someone's ramblings????

It's a picture of her fat belly.
Explain how carrying around a fat belly can help you perform to your best?

super_realist wrote:It's a picture of her fat belly.
Explain how carrying around a fat belly can help you perform to your best?

Provide her 'body fat' %

Her BMI was 21 and she was classed as underweight.

Fans chant 'Fat Frank Lampard'

Can't find his belly though.

I don't need to look at her "body fat" figures. It's plain to see she is carrying superfluous weight around her midriff, whether the rest of her body is in line or not is irrelevant, she's got 2-3 pounds of fat which doesn't need to be there, and requires more energy to move around. Carrying 2-3 lbs of anything that you don't need cannot be any good for you. Tie 1.5lb of weight onto each shoe and see what happens.

BMI as I said means absolutely nothing in athletic sport. It's indicative only.

Your calling the belly pounds when for it me looks like grams.

It's speculative to the weight of the 'belly' when the rest of her is well proportioned.

The BMI doesn't lie.

BMI isn't suited to those in athletics, she may well be within the BMI, for her height/weight, but that doesn't mean she hasn't got a fat belly, which she clearly has.

It takes energy to move that around. Why wouldn't you just get rid?

Looks like the equivalent of about a dozen mars bars strapped to her waist.

super_realist wrote:BMI isn't suited to those in athletics, she may well be within the BMI, for her height/weight, but that doesn't mean she hasn't got a fat belly, which she clearly has.

It takes energy to move that around. Why wouldn't you just get rid?

Looks like the equivalent of about a dozen mars bars strapped to her waist.

Quite seriously, Watson is skinny compared to a huge number of female tennis players. Also if at some stage in her life she was a bit fat, its probable its just a bit of excess skin rather than actual fat.

I think the important point here is that she looks in far better physical shape than she did previously, therefore things are quite clearly moving in the right direction.

The fact that you can see her ribs is clear indication she is carrying very little extra weight:
http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article7888386.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/heather-watson.jpg

Last years champion Kvitova, for example, appears to me to be way worse than Watson:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/25/article-2053402-0E87B47E00000578-237_468x314.jpg


A lot of the women have body issues just like most normal women. For example 4 years ago heres an article of Jankovic basically saying shes thinks not practicing for a while has led to her looking fat:
http://www.downthelinetennis.com/2008/07/jelena-feeling-flabby-blames-balky-knee.html

legendkillarV2 wrote: Provide me evidence of a player who dropped 'added weight' and then started to win Slams.

Navratilova?

An extract about her..."Navratilova struggled with her weight in the early years of her career and was at one point, inauspiciously labeled the "Great Wide Hope" by the famed tennis journalist and television commentator, Bud Collins. Once Navratilova decided to change her physical fitness routine, she embarked on a grueling exercise routine that eventually made her extreme levels of fitness and conditioning a hallmark of her game."

lydian wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote: Provide me evidence of a player who dropped 'added weight' and then started to win Slams.

Navratilova?

Was she fat? I can't recall her being 'chubby'

In a womans tennis match, the match can last as long as it takes to run a marathon. For the two finalists that could be seven "marathons" over two weeks. One would expect the players to need a minimum level of fat for energy purposes - fat is broken down and used as an energy source during any form of sustained physical exertion.

Women also go through a monthly biological cycle that can affect body weight and water retention.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

lydian wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote: Provide me evidence of a player who dropped 'added weight' and then started to win Slams.

Navratilova?

Was she fat? I can't recall her being 'chubby'

She was up to around 1981 and then subsequently dominated for 5 years.

I would qualify this, by saying it was more her diet than her 'weight' that made the difference, i.e. she toned up, so probably weighed the same, given that muscle is three times heavier than fat.

Personally the fatness/fitness thing in the womens game might be better approached by making them play best of 5 in slams, as the added endurance might mean some of the bulkier ladies who rely on power, actually have to work hard on fitness. It might redress the balance slightly in a power dominated game.

Heather is a really quick player around the court so why are you idiots getting in a fuss about one poster looking for bites?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Heather is a really quick player around the court so why are you idiots getting in a fuss about one poster looking for bites?

Good point

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Heather is a really quick player around the court so why are you idiots getting in a fuss about one poster looking for bites?

I think the protagonist saw Heather's mum and not Heather

Nore Staat wrote:In a womans tennis match, the match can last as long as it takes to run a marathon. For the two finalists that could be seven "marathons" over two weeks. One would expect the players to need a minimum level of fat for energy purposes - fat is broken down and used as an energy source during any form of sustained physical exertion.

Women also go through a monthly biological cycle that can affect body weight and water retention.

It is incredibly inefficient to burn fat,burning fat is what is happening when athletes hit a wall. Having less fat and more muscle in which to store glycogen is a better way of having plenty energy in your body.

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Yea except she won Wimbledon last year and reached the last 2 semi finals in grandslams. Perfectly good results.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Yea except she won Wimbledon last year and reached the last 2 semi finals in grandslams. Perfectly good results.

She's still fat though!

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Yea except she won Wimbledon last year and reached the last 2 semi finals in grandslams. Perfectly good results.

She's still fat though!

Perhaps those two semi's could have been turned into Finals though, without the burden carrying round that podgy belly?

What benefit could there be in carrying something round you don't need to?

super_realist wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Yea except she won Wimbledon last year and reached the last 2 semi finals in grandslams. Perfectly good results.

She's still fat though!

Perhaps those two semi's could have been turned into Finals though, without the burden carrying round that podgy belly?

What benefit could there be in carrying something round you don't need to?

Or maybe she was outplayed?

Or don't fat people get outplayed?

I agree 3 sets for the women seems too short...especially when you get the 6-0 6-1 results in the early rounds.

But then maybe 5 sets is too long...maybe get them to play "champions" sets...up to 10 games, tiebreak at 10-all.#

Something needs to happen though...boring matches and no personalities on tour with identikit practice-drill games.

Dont think Navrat was fat LK...just carrying a few pounds. It happens with some of them from early years.

We know how much being overweight has probably hampered Nalby's potential success...and Fish became a much better player results-wise after he lost weight last year. There's no harm in any player being the fittest they can be...only Robson and Watson know whether they're at peak fitness or not.

lydian wrote:I agree 3 sets for the women seems too short...especially when you get the 6-0 6-1 results in the early rounds.

But then maybe 5 sets is too long...maybe get them to play "champions" sets...up to 10 games, tiebreak at 10-all.#

Something needs to happen though...boring matches and no personalities on tour with identikit practice-drill games.

My solution would be to do something similar to doubles with a champions tiesbreak instead of the 5th set. I.e you can win a match 3-0 or 3-1, but if it goes 2-2 decide the match with a champions tiesbreak

legendkillarV2 wrote:

super_realist wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Yea except she won Wimbledon last year and reached the last 2 semi finals in grandslams. Perfectly good results.

She's still fat though!

Perhaps those two semi's could have been turned into Finals though, without the burden carrying round that podgy belly?

What benefit could there be in carrying something round you don't need to?

Or maybe she was outplayed?

Or don't fat people get outplayed?

Well, there's the dilemma, maybe in time she'll look back and think that if she hadn't been carrying around all that fat around her belly, she might have been less tired and a little bit sharper.
I don't see there being any harm in being in first class shape, then if you get beat you can say that you gave it 100%
How can you be 100% if you are carrying needless weight around your body?

Stick to the golf pages, for your own sanity s_r

super_realist wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

super_realist wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Kvitova's fat belly is doing nothing at all for her career, god knows why she just doesn't work hard enough to shift it and then she's not expending energy carrying it around. She looks 3 months pregnant for heavens sake.

Yea except she won Wimbledon last year and reached the last 2 semi finals in grandslams. Perfectly good results.

She's still fat though!

Perhaps those two semi's could have been turned into Finals though, without the burden carrying round that podgy belly?

What benefit could there be in carrying something round you don't need to?

Or maybe she was outplayed?

Or don't fat people get outplayed?

Well, there's the dilemma, maybe in time she'll look back and think that if she hadn't been carrying around all that fat around her belly, she might have been less tired and a little bit sharper.
I don't see there being any harm in being in first class shape, then if you get beat you can say that you gave it 100%
How can you be 100% if you are carrying needless weight around your body?

Your now starting to show your lack of understanding of tennis.

What if they got outplayed? No she's fat

What if there are better players? No she's fat

You are very much limiting yourself in your argument here.

No-one is actually going to take your point seriously.

As this argument has dragged out long enough, how about this.

Serena Williams. 5'9 weighing 155lbs which I believe is 11 stone. 13 time Slam winner.

Petra Kvitova. 6'0 weighing 150lbs. Slam winner.

Now Serena is smaller than Kvitova and carrying more weight.

How did she win all those titles being such a lump?

I'm not saying if she wasn't fat she still might not have got outplayed, she might well have been, just as she might beat people who aren't fat.

I just can't see the point in being near the top of the sport, yet not being in the best shape you possibly can be. Seems like a bit risky, pretty arrogant, and disrespectful to your opponent.

Imagine Usain Bolt with a pot belly. He might still win a lot, but surely his chances are best when he's in his best shape. Why do you think a pot belly is fine for a tennis player?

Can't see what advantage Kvitova gets from having a fat belly. Surely, despite her immense talent it must be a hinderence.

But carrying a lot more muscle LK.
And then of course she's quite large upfront too...

legendkillarV2 wrote:As this argument has dragged out long enough, how about this.

Serena Williams. 5'9 weighing 155lbs which I believe is 11 stone. 13 time Slam winner.

Petra Kvitova. 6'0 weighing 150lbs. Slam winner.

Now Serena is smaller than Kvitova and carrying more weight.

How did she win all those titles being such a lump?

Talent, Legend, but how much more dominant might she have been had she been in shape where she was quicker, and able to carry more energy into the latter stages of a match.

So Legend, as long as you have talent, being in shape is irrelevant?

Williams was never particularly overweight IMO. You dont win 13 slams otherwise.

We have to remember as well that women tend to have higher bodyfat than men anyway...the Sam Stosur look isnt the norm.

super_realist wrote:So Legend, as long as you have talent, being in shape is irrelevant?

So how is Kvitova out of shape when she is a professional athlete who has won a Slam which many slimmers haven't?

John Daly ever heard of him?

Let me tell you something else more important than shape......Balance!!!!!!

For heavens sake people.

You can win a tournament if you are fat and thin. However, the question of whether you would be quicker and have more energy if you are not carrying around a lardy belly is obvious.


Kvitova might have won more easily without her girth.
Okay, her flabbly belly might not have been a massive hinderence, but what if she needs that extra 0.5% but she's just too tired and mentally shot from carrying an extra three pounds around for three hours?


If you had two Kvitova clones, one with a three pound flabby belly and one without, the thinner one will be quicker and use less energy.


I can't believe you brought up golf, especially John Daly from an era when they were all out of shape, unfit, drinkers, smokers etc.

Golf is a sport is it not?

I mean god you brought Mo Farrah.

Stop moaning because no-one buys your BS!

Did you move on to Kvitova when you realised that attacking Heather Watson for being 'fat' was a bit of a stupid thing to do?

Distance running is a physical aerobic sport, which like tennis if you aren't in top condition you can't possibly expect to do as well at.

I don't see why you can't understand that. Golf is just walking, but in the modern era you rarely see a fat player do well now.

If you put extra weight in your car, it doesn't run as efficiently, why would a human body?

Now we are on cars?

Has Kvitova moaned about being out of shape? No. Has this affected her performances this year? No. Has any other of the WTA players commented on her weight as an issue in not winning every match which was what you imply? No.

Legend, you don't know how it has affected her performance.
You don't know that carrying around the extra weight hasn't impeded her.

It's obvious, if you are heavier than you need to be, you expend more energy.

Kvitova has a needless belly, that is costing her to expend energy she doesn't need to.

Strap three pounds to your belly and see how you get on playing three sets of tennis.

I'm with s_r on this one. Regardless of the player involved, it's better to be more fit than less fit. I think that's the point isn't it?

super_realist wrote:
I don't see why you can't understand that. Golf is just walking, but in the modern era you rarely see a fat player do well now.

Oh come on. If you held golfers to the same standards that you're holding these tennis players, you'd be saying that a fat player wins every week.

How many golfers would look as flat around the midriff whilst wearing that skin-tight K-Swiss top that Heather Watson was wearing?

Legend, you don't know how it has affected her performance.
You don't know that carrying around the extra weight hasn't impeded her.

And you know this as a fact then?

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Legend, you don't know how it has affected her performance.
You don't know that carrying around the extra weight hasn't impeded her.

And you know this as a fact then?

No more than you saying it hasn't affected her Legend.

It's hard to argue that carrying weight you don't need could help you though Legend.

Sounds very much like you are in denial about your own weight with being so defensive, perhaps that "extra few pounds" you have is more like a few stone?

JuliusHMarx wrote:I'm with s_r on this one. Regardless of the player involved, it's better to be more fit than less fit. I think that's the point isn't it?

In a nut shell yes, although I think she might well be fit enough to be a pro, I think she'd clearly be fitter without carrying around a lardy belly. Can't see how that could be argued with.